ya me neither (and I'm a car guy)
House burned down
- Thread starter Jejochen
- Start date
OffGridInTheCity
Solar Wizard
I recently had a smallish shed fire but this heated nearby propane tanks (stored on outside wall) which vented/ignited and then cascaded thru several bottles causing massive inferno. So sorry for the OP and the doubt it brings to all of us DIY'ing.
After reading about 70% of this thread I'm not clear on how the fire spread from arcing fuse..... to total house destruction?
1) Arc started a fire in some nearby combustible material and then spread to the battery bank and then the home?
2) Arc caused a nearby LifePo4 cell to vent / catch fire and spread.... (analogous to propane tanks venting then catching fire causing inferno??)
3) Other?
What actually burned due to the fuse arc? Would a metal box around the fuses have contained it?!?
FYI, I'm US and have State Farm insurance and even though my DIY setup was found to be the cause - e.g. there is some potential liability - they have paid the claim and were very nice about it all. Not sure if they will cancel my policy at renewal time... will have to see.
After reading about 70% of this thread I'm not clear on how the fire spread from arcing fuse..... to total house destruction?
1) Arc started a fire in some nearby combustible material and then spread to the battery bank and then the home?
2) Arc caused a nearby LifePo4 cell to vent / catch fire and spread.... (analogous to propane tanks venting then catching fire causing inferno??)
3) Other?
What actually burned due to the fuse arc? Would a metal box around the fuses have contained it?!?
FYI, I'm US and have State Farm insurance and even though my DIY setup was found to be the cause - e.g. there is some potential liability - they have paid the claim and were very nice about it all. Not sure if they will cancel my policy at renewal time... will have to see.
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Glad no one was hurt or killed. Win and Win. Op lives in Belgium and had insurance according earlier post. 3 phase Victron 5000 setup to charge Tesla. System died at night with basically no loads is what read. Nothing going on.
In the past there was a Victron Fuse shown on youtube smoking - was a year or so ago… at around that same time ppl were saying there were counterfeit branded Victron mega fuses on the internet being sold for that video. Video is gone.
Victron mega fuse are shown as slow blow…. In video below….. Hmmmm Again I can’t find the video of the mega fuse doing an arc smoke show. I Found one not blowing until 2x amps wish he had shown timer.
Hmmm slow blow
community.victronenergy.com
Multi-Plus II solder bridge at battery terminals in link. Not sure if this developed or if it was out of box new. Details Reported his fuse blew and saved system. Hmmm hair solder bridge at inverter blew the Victron fuse…… must have been one strong hair of solder.
community.victronenergy.com
One could argue if OP had stayed with only 6 strings might not been any problems. Pushing until something pushes back…..
We always want more and more. Right?
Have questionS what was the shunt rating for this system? Was the shunt upgraded? Was there a shunt?
Obviously Something caused the fuse to fry. Something kicked it off to domino on a system that was assembled 4-5 years ago with follow up battery changes.
Exactly which fuse blew in this setup? Read he had correct amp Victron recommended fuses on batteries Victron correct amp recommended fuses on inverters. Which fuse blew?
These Victron 58v fuses are probably slow blow because Victron inverters can usually do 3x rated load for x amount of time. Right? Advantage of lf….
Been nice if guy in video had keep timer running he took 100amp mega fuse to ~230 amp.
I highly doubt this will ever be solved. If the components were not considered the best then would have already been dead and blamed on cheap inverter or something else.
Just by chance what was the shunt rated at in this system? Undersize shunts turn into heating elements until burn up.
I find it odd that Victron wants 6 awg on “ac out” with their 3000 multiplus II inverter. Hmmmm on 5000 the “ac in” is smaller than the “ac out.”
Since this guy was in Belgium assume he was using the 230vac models?
In the past there was a Victron Fuse shown on youtube smoking - was a year or so ago… at around that same time ppl were saying there were counterfeit branded Victron mega fuses on the internet being sold for that video. Video is gone.
Victron mega fuse are shown as slow blow…. In video below….. Hmmmm Again I can’t find the video of the mega fuse doing an arc smoke show. I Found one not blowing until 2x amps wish he had shown timer.
Hmmm slow blow
Victron Mega Fuse slow blown issues - Victron Community
community.victronenergy.com
Multi-Plus II solder bridge at battery terminals in link. Not sure if this developed or if it was out of box new. Details Reported his fuse blew and saved system. Hmmm hair solder bridge at inverter blew the Victron fuse…… must have been one strong hair of solder.
Fuse blows when Lynx Dist powered. Why?! - Victron Community
community.victronenergy.com
One could argue if OP had stayed with only 6 strings might not been any problems. Pushing until something pushes back…..
We always want more and more. Right?
Have questionS what was the shunt rating for this system? Was the shunt upgraded? Was there a shunt?
Obviously Something caused the fuse to fry. Something kicked it off to domino on a system that was assembled 4-5 years ago with follow up battery changes.
We use to cut the Various T class type fuses apart and inspect them when components failed on locomotives - r&d. Bussmann makes good fuses. The sand turns to glass. Sometimes they still carry voltage - no current. Megger finds them but meter ohm scale might show as good. If fuses are in parallel we always replaced both by practice because other one was stressed - tattle tales pop on some fuses but not on others. Molten copper combination with shape charge defeats armor. The sand arrest the molten copper - snuffs fire. Shut off boxes sometimes blow if something on load is shorted the copper from contacts cuts right through the box front…why you stand to side cutting shut off box in ….on.
Exactly which fuse blew in this setup? Read he had correct amp Victron recommended fuses on batteries Victron correct amp recommended fuses on inverters. Which fuse blew?
These Victron 58v fuses are probably slow blow because Victron inverters can usually do 3x rated load for x amount of time. Right? Advantage of lf….
Been nice if guy in video had keep timer running he took 100amp mega fuse to ~230 amp.
I highly doubt this will ever be solved. If the components were not considered the best then would have already been dead and blamed on cheap inverter or something else.
Just by chance what was the shunt rated at in this system? Undersize shunts turn into heating elements until burn up.
I find it odd that Victron wants 6 awg on “ac out” with their 3000 multiplus II inverter. Hmmmm on 5000 the “ac in” is smaller than the “ac out.”
Since this guy was in Belgium assume he was using the 230vac models?
Brucey
Solar Wizard
wattmatters
Solar Wizard
What EV has 200p? Most are 400 V and some 800 V architecture. How can they be 200p? You need 100 cells (or more) in series to get 400 V.
Thanks.
Is that only for the Victron 5000 vs 3000 models. I figured they had bigger wiring per surge - much larger then my MPP Solar 3048 on ac in and out - 10 ga vs 6 ga of Victron 3000. I was considering the Victron 3000 but would have to change all wiring…. This OP had what is considered best of best by most ppl.
I don’t think the OP system fault will ever be discovered.
I’d still like to know which fuse tried to blow.?
Brucey
Solar Wizard
I believe all the multiplus can do power assist except the smallest multiplus 500VA, assist current available depends on the model.Thanks.
Is that only for the Victron 5000 vs 3000 models. I figured they had bigger wiring per surge - much larger then my MPP Solar 3048 on ac in and out - 10 ga vs 6 ga of Victron 3000. I was considering the Victron 3000 but would have to change all wiring…. This OP had what is considered best of best by most ppl.
I don’t think the OP system fault will ever be discovered.
PotusGobbleBottom
Corn Pop was a bad dude.
I read about this but it was in reference to balancing. They specifically said fused balance wires. Could that be the case? Why would they parallel them with wires that act as fuses. I mean, wouldnt the equivalent be us wiring 200 Ah batteries with 16 awg?
Brucey
Solar Wizard
What size propane tanks? the little 5 gallons or the 125 gallon fat boys?
Brucey
Solar Wizard
Tesla do something interesting. They also have a BMS unit on each battery module, in addition to liquid cooling for temp control within the battery.
Tesla Model S Battery System: An Engineer’s Perspective
So, in this article, we will be discussing the Battery system of the Tesla Model-S. We will majorly focus on the battery pack and briefly go through other topics such as Mechanical or thermal specifications. We will be digging deeper into the Electrical features and characteristics, the cell...
circuitdigest.com
OffGridInTheCity
Solar Wizard
Brucey
Solar Wizard
Did it take the whole house or just the shed? looks like we'll need more than 10 feet!
PotusGobbleBottom
Corn Pop was a bad dude.
That all sounds pretty awesome!
Zwy
Emperor Of Solar
It's about time you chimed in.
There are those that go with #3 and have been bashing Batrium.
You have been a user of Batrium longer than I plus have exposure in the other forum (not named here). Those blaming the Batrium architecture of course do not use Batrium.
MEGA fuses were used on each 16S battery and no Class T fuses. Most likely the fuse sustained the arc or blew hot material.
OffGridInTheCity
Solar Wizard
It was 1am and seemed like it could take out the whole neighborhood but apparently it's good news the tanks vented and burned as apposed to exploding. Neighbors not happy and I don't blame them. Took out shared fence, shed, 27panel PV array, and 2 x 2500gal rain harvest tanks, and melted the neighbor's pool liner above the water line.
I can totally sympathize with the OP... traumatic experience.... but mine is minor compared to the OP as ours is just out-structure damage and all houses are fine/functional.
It's been a month and rebuild is under way..... shared fence restored and enough cleanup to reduce the trauma.
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Brucey
Solar Wizard
I guess they can't really say much because it was the propane tanks that went up and not a lithium battery, ten of them all in a manifold together? Were they like your end of days stash?
OffGridInTheCity
Solar Wizard
No manifold, just individual tanks. Yea, it's what's was needed to supplement the PV for the 4 months of winter... for heat mostly but also generator.
Brucey
Solar Wizard
I see, so 100 lbers so you can haul them back and forth yourself for refills? I'm guessing you can't get a bulk truck to fill those on site?
PotusGobbleBottom
Corn Pop was a bad dude.
Lol , Are we there yet?
OffGridInTheCity
Solar Wizard
I see Batrium as one of my key defenses because.... I can see each of the 126 packs all the time on my desktop + I record all the data and have desktop RED alerts for metrics out of bounds such as >100mv pack difference. It's been 6 years of operation and I'm confident I'll see negative trends with good warning. It's the visibility into what's happening, day by day, hour by hour that gives me some measure of confidence.
Plus, over the years, I've become a fan of metal boxes for all connections, breakers (in my case) or fuses - including busses. This only leaves the wires where they bolt to the battery(s) of the powerwall. These connections can be checked for heat/tightness to help eliminate arc/fire potential.
I wonder if the fuses had been in a box, if the tragedy could have been avoided. I had a butt-joint burn thru (2 years ago) but it was in a metal connection box and might have saved my house....
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