Deligreen 310Ah cells SCAM

[HighTechLab]

Let me know where you are located.

Deligreen is one of my vendors for BMS units. I can't speak in terms of batteries because I have not bought cells like this through them (mostly just BMS units and active balancers) but with me they are honest with what they are sending and I know what I'm getting...It may just be that we have been working together for around 4 years now, but we wouldn't have been working together for so long if they were a scam or terrible company.

My experience is also driven that I have both Mandy and other salespersons from Deligreen on WeChat and we discuss multiple topics extensively when it pertains to products.

 

[ArthurEld]

I bought EVEs from Deligreen too. I never peeled off the plastic cover to see what is under there.
But the cells perform as expected.

 

[TheYen]

Let me know where you are located.

Deligreen is one of my vendors for BMS units. I can't speak in terms of batteries because I have not bought cells like this through them (mostly just BMS units and active balancers) but with me they are honest with what they are sending and I know what I'm getting...It may just be that we have been working together for around 4 years now, but we wouldn't have been working together for so long if they were a scam or terrible company.

My experience is also driven that I have both Mandy and other salespersons from Deligreen on WeChat and we discuss multiple topics extensively when it pertains to products.

I am in Thailand, leaving to Indonesia in 2 weeks so not much chance for to return and swap even if they had genuine new cells with barcodes.

 

[TheYen]

Imagine you open your packages after waiting 1-2 months, you see swollen cells, two of them are 2.9V, if you ask any cell manufacturer, they will tell you these cells should not been shipped out.
Chances of swell and voltage drop during the transportation? Even more ridiculous. Can you accept cells self swollen so easily, self discharge so quickly?
Those cells are definitely not matched cells. And it’s not likely to see they get back to normal with the performance they should deliver by few times charge and discharge.
However, bro, you should be careful with your words when post publicly.

It's easier to learn to shave on someone else's face. I wonder how many of those who suggested I keep them would chance it with their home or their boat. I bought new balanced and matched cells and I received factory reject, puffy mismatched cells with defaced barcode. The seller is refusing to take responsibility and has instead edited the listing to hide their false advertisement. Would you want to buy anything from them?

Re: the wording in my previous post, I have already apologised for letting my frustration seep through what I wanted to be a purely factual account. It bombed. Moving forward, I will only post actual facts and leave personal opinions and feelings at the door.
Thanks for articulating my point better and more concisely than I did.

 

[Frank in Thailand]

@ghostwriter66 wrote some time ago (if i remember correctly) about the strange phenomenon of removing QR codes from cells.
This can be as simple as buying from the competitor across the street as they ran out of stock, and remove the code so it doesnt trace back to that seller.
in other words, removed QR code doesn't have to be bad news.

310Ah, and by the looks of it the same aluminium housing as the 280 AH..
Déjà vu!

I'm the sad (or happy) owner of 48x 152Ah cells, where the same housing is used for 120 and 135Ah... Too many sheets in a box doesn't work well.
And ALL of my 152Ah's are swollen / bloated / delaminated.
After a year of usage capacity test shows 145-151Ah, mostly 147Ah. (even with 3 x 15A capacity testers, that took many days to test)
the bloating, i would not worry about it. there is a HUGE misunderstanding about (slightly) bloated LIFEPO4 cells.
lithium phosphate, yes, that's dangerous. lifepo4 isn't the same!! it is the safe type that is more safe then lead acid.

the 310Ah cells should be compressed to prevent further bloating, as it will reduce somewhat the capacity.
Dangerous?? ABSOLUTELY NOT !!!
Not lithium polymer, not your powerbank / cellphone type of battery!

 

[TheYen]

Thanks for the explanation. Agree it *could* be something minor, but there are too many unknowns and at this stage the seller raised so many red flags and made me realise it will only be a massive pain if I have to make any warranty claims that I just want to sever it and move on to buy pricier cells from a reputable and honest supplier who's already done all the sifting through the rubbish cells and is going to handle warranty claims with more dignity.

 

[TheYen]

In other news, here's the latest from Deligreen. They are flat out refusing a return and unsurprisingly done the pleading/angry cycle I had described in my earlier post. In the meantime I have filed a section 75 claim with my bank. Let's see what happens.

 

[Frank in Thailand]

I wish you the best of luck.
Usually credit card companies know the tricks of Alibaba / Ali express.
If you don't have a large reputation for claims, it should be OK.

there are a few (USA based) members who like to collect damaged cells.
first one I found:

WANTED: Damaged or discarded 280Ah EVE cell

Wanted: Damaged or discarded 280Ah EVE cell, preferably one that was sold to you as "new". Goal: Detailed teardown after full discharge for cell parameter estimation as input for analytical cell model. Offer: USD 10 (+ shipping if feasible) Destination: Sacramento, CA, USA. I may be able to pick...

diysolarforum.com

so please don't trash them yet!!

 

[TheYen]

Thanks. I've never made a claim in 25 years. I'm not binning them until there's been an outcome. It could be that they relent and accept a return (unlikely) offer me a partial refund to keep them (not interested) or my bank/Alixxx just refund me without the need to ship them back, in which case they'll go for the best offer and I'll give the money to a local orphanage or school. My only concern is that I'm leaving for a 3000nm voyage at the end of the month so it would be nice to have something sorted by then.

 

[HighTechLab]

I get that you are concerned with the cells because you don't want them to cause damage to your property/boat. In my opinion, these cells do not look "puffy" or excessively swelled as you are suggesting. They need to be fixtured in compression and that will shape them back into form.

Until you top balance them and capacity test them, you should not be stressing out like this. The cells must be discharged before shipping, so you absolutely must charge them before you make any drastic decisions.

Oh and a heads up, in REGULAR USE, as noted by many members of this forum, when these cells charge they expand/grow a bit, so please don't freak about that being what makes you think they sent you rejects.


If you do end up deciding not to use the cells, that's your loss, but you should look for a different size cell because there is a 95% chance you will run into the exact same thing with the next vendor you deal with. Read here https://diysolarforum.com/threads/c...ic-cells-from-basen.17359/page-10#post-266161

Oh and THIS is a puffy cell, one that I accidently overcharged beyond 4.3 volts with an unregulated power supply with 60 amps of current being pushed...Fun fact, there was NO flames, it didn't even vent at this point and STILL was holding high in voltage after ejecting it from my lab at high velocity, into the middle of a field and letting it sit for a couple hours.:

 

[Bob B]

Sorry, but all we really know right now is that the QR codes are scratched off .... and that seems to be standard practice for some manufacturers who are selling thru an intermediate seller.

If you top balance and test the cells you will be in a much better position. Without knowing how well matched they are and what their capacity actually is you are shouting into the wind.

 

[Just John]

The cells don't look swollen to me, all of the high capacity cells undulate on the large sides because the aluminum is thin. That said, if you want real grade A cells complete with factory testing results, there is a vendor that sells them for $121 each, plus shipping. You get what you pay for. Maybe the cells really are swollen, pictures can be difficult to see, but they look like every other high capacity cell in an aluminum case to me.

 

[Ampster]

I live and do business in Asia so I'm very familiar with the cultural differences and the way business is conducted and I would not engage with a Chinese company without some sort of safeguard in place,

I share your risk management strategy. Your safeguard is your credit card company. Keep us informed about how that goes.

I could care less about your perception of your cells and of that vendor. I would like to see some facts about capacity and actual data about why you believe they are not matched? Read through some threads and become informed about why the voltage of the cells when they arrive is no indicator of capacity or any indicator that they are not balanced or not matched.

 

[ArthurEld]

It's easier to learn to shave on someone else's face. I wonder how many of those who suggested I keep them would chance it with their home or their boat. I bought new balanced and matched cells and I received factory reject, puffy mismatched cells with defaced barcode. The seller is refusing to take responsibility and has instead edited the listing to hide their false advertisement. Would you want to buy anything from them?

I am fairly sure the causes of fires has nothing to do with bar codes or slightly bloated cells.
I am also fairly sure all of our cells are factory rejects. Otherwise we would have to pay 3 times what we pay.
Some factories destroy the barcodes so they won't have to honor warranties.

I have no idea what will happen with your claim. Some people get money back, some people get replacement cells.
Most of us just use them.

 

[Just John]

I am fairly sure the causes of fires has nothing to do with bar codes or slightly balloted cells.
I am also fairly sure all of our cells are factory rejects. Otherwise we would have to pay 3 times what we pay.
Some factories destroy the barcodes so they won't have to honor warranties.

I have no idea what will happen with your claim. Some people get money back, some people get replacement cells.
Most of us just use them.

Yes, at the price we are paying, we are getting a bargain compared to true grade A cells. Even if they advertise as grade A, they are not grade A unless you are paying substantially more.

LiFePO4 cells catching fire is not a concern unless you short them out, over discharge or over charge them. Same with lead acid.

 

[Frank in Thailand]

Fire??
Probably only with short them out.

And even then...
I made accedently short, result in a half molten wrench.
That could be hot enough to make fire if it would be in touch with flammable material (paper, grass/wood)
The cell itself first looked fine, even held it charge.
Next day, 0.0v.
When I released the clamping sheets it started to bloat like puffy pillow.
I was surprised the vent didn't pop!

During the h discharge from 3.3x to 0.0 there was no really abnormal heat development. It was warm, not hot.

With 0.0v, that one isn't in use anymore.

I have one other pillow who does hold charge (yes... Manually overcharged for too long at 4.1v)
And is for several months now at 3.8v ..
I've used it for electroplating.
Next usage tbd.

If I would have sold the battery, I also would not want to provide warranty as nothing is defective.
Totally within specifications.
You get what you pay for.
I would communicate prior to sales about the cells possible bloat a bit.
And inform about that they need to be compressed, and top balanced before use.

You are buying not a finished product!! It's a half product, that you build your self to a battery for your usage!

Of you would buy lead sheets that got slightly bend during transport for building lead acid battery..
You won't complain.
Not at those prices. You just straighten them and use.
If you want all in a foam bed, individual wrapped.. you pay top dollar.

Same for these cells.
They are the rejects for EV prodiction.
Perfect for our usage, just don't fully charge then in one hour or discharge in half hour

Rejected for EV doesn't mean they are bad cells, not at all. Especially not for low intensive use like solar!!

They are rejects, with matching price.
Slightly bloated isn't going to work with laser welding casing and busbars.
The risk that the robot needs to stop as it can't compress enough is way too big, with the high costs from that.
So, reject.

Production test was passed, all normal numbers are OK, not leaking etc.

Perfect, just not for EV.
And be grateful!!
Otherwise the cells would be 5 to 10 time more expensive to get you totally Grade A cells with exactly equal Internal resistance.

Unless you like to pay +$600 1000 per cell, you get what you pay for.

And remember: never trust a car salesman
Or Alibaba / AliExpress sales talk.

 

[TheYen]

Update: I handed the cells to a local firm who specialise in lithium installs. They're getting top balanced as I type this and capacity tested tomorrow, then I'll know more.
Re: the trustworthiness of Deligreen: they expressly advertise the cells as having an intact barcode but send out ones without and say it's fine. Whatever the capacity, that is to me grounds for a return. Anything else would be supporting this practice. I don't want to keep the cells and not pay for them. Just send them back to them and get my money back. They originally charged me around $200 for shipping and are now asking for $500 to send them back.

 

[Frank in Thailand]

$500 to ship back is a bargain.

Remember, China is seen by global postage /shipments as underdeveloped country, and have extremely low prices to send over the globe.

Sending Lithium batteries as private person wasn't something that could be done in Europe.
Only companies who are certified can ship, while in China anyone can.
That makes the price usually 10 times higher to ship to China then receive from China.

You probably will lose the 500 bucks, perhaps 700. (Their $200)
But get the product price back.

China isn't USA, and your values and standards aren't theirs.
Of you are willing to pay $700 for that, sure. Please do.

From Chinese point of view they haven't done anything wrong.

If you like QR codes, they can send you some stickers... As the codes have absolutely no additional value.
Not for warranty, not for production location, perhaps a bit on production date.

As they are 310Ah, they can't be over year old.
Not in production back then.

Sure, I understand.
You did not get what you expected.
That sucks.

I would felt happy about receive these cells, probably as I have dealt with China several years and know the standards are different from Europe/USA.
My expectations are different.
Perhaps more realistic for buying low cost cells via outlet sites as Alibaba/AliExpress.

Of the capacity test hits 300Ah and the internal resistance is equal between the cells, they would exceed my expectations.

 

[Sanwizard]

Thanks for the explanation. Agree it *could* be something minor, but there are too many unknowns and at this stage the seller raised so many red flags and made me realise it will only be a massive pain if I have to make any warranty claims that I just want to sever it and move on to buy pricier cells from a reputable and honest supplier who's already done all the sifting through the rubbish cells and is going to handle warranty claims with more dignity.

The moral of this story is expect what you pay for. Brand new matched cells cost a LOT more than what most of the Alibaba folks sell them for. If they work as advertised, and provide the AH as expected, then you probably will be ok.
If you really need Class A brand new factory cells, then buy them factory direct, but expect to pay a substantial amount more.

 

[Ampster]

they expressly advertise the cells as having an intact barcode but send out ones without and say it's fine. Whatever the capacity, that is to me grounds for a return.

Whatever floats your boat.
I rarely look at the barcode but use some of the capacity every day. Clearly the majority of comments on this thread think your grounds for return are trivial. What does your credit card company think and are they willing to reverse the charges based on a barcode difference of opinion about what "intact" means?