Tinning Busbars

[chrisski]

How do you tin your busbars?

-Solder with MAF torch?
-Solder dip is a solder pot?
-Electroplate?
-Chemical dip like liquid solder?
-Something else?


==========================
Drilled, Cut, and cleaned busbars today. Attempted to tin off the "Soldering" document with a MAF torch per this resource aand no good.

Tin Plating, Nickle Plating or Solder plating Bus bars

To get the downloads, click on the orange button at the top of the screen. This resource has two download files - A file documenting what I did to Tin plate bus-bars - An instructable on how to nickle plate copper. - A short word document on how...

diysolarforum.com

These are my results:


I attempted this with three of 8 bus bars I made. I finished with 800 grit sand paper and cleaned with 91% alcohol. I heated with a MAF torch without flux (Right) and the middle two with flux. The one on the left, I did not tin at all.
=========================================
I'm stuck on the next step. Liquid solder is pretty tempting since it seems so easy and even though its about $25 for 4 ounces, this will likely be less than I pay for any other way I attempt.

 

[DerpsyDoodler]

curious to see what you learn.

 

[mrzed001]

How do you tin your busbars?

-Solder with MAF torch?
-Solder dip is a solder pot?
-Electroplate?
-Chemical dip like liquid solder?
-Something else?


==========================
Drilled, Cut, and cleaned busbars today. Attempted to tin off the "Soldering" document with a MAF torch per this resource aand no good.

Tin Plating, Nickle Plating or Solder plating Bus bars

To get the downloads, click on the orange button at the top of the screen. This resource has two download files - A file documenting what I did to Tin plate bus-bars - An instructable on how to nickle plate copper. - A short word document on how...

diysolarforum.com

These are my results:

View attachment 61129
I attempted this with three of 8 bus bars I made. I finished with 800 grit sand paper and cleaned with 91% alcohol. I heated with a MAF torch without flux (Right) and the middle two with flux. The one on the left, I did not tin at all.
=========================================
I'm stuck on the next step. Liquid solder is pretty tempting since it seems so easy and even though its about $25 for 4 ounces, this will likely be less than I pay for any other way I attempt.

Why don't you use aluminium busbars?
You need a bit thicker but then alu busbar on alu terminal ... there is nothing better.

 

[JimJr]

Not bad for the first time attempt . Your result was from using a torch too close to the buss bar. It heated too quickly and burned the paste flux
and blew it away, leaving exposed bare copper to oxidize and will not let the tin to flow.
If you torch is too close you get too many hot and colder zones winch the solder flows to the hotter areas and puddles there.

I use a tinning fluid with a brush

Amazon.com

https://www.amazon.com/RAM-PRO-Flexible-Horsehair-Bristle-Tubular/dp/B01LXC1VBE/ref=sr_1_5?dchild=1&keywords=acid+brush&qid=1629644571&sr=8-5

The biggest key to a good job is only use just enough heat so the solder flows.

I use the tinning fluid because it is more forgiving for a over heat situation , if you over heat , just brush on some more to clean and to cool down the part. Using a paste flux does not forgive a over heat well and burns into a black dirt that needs to be cleaned off , before you can proceed.

Paste flux is zinc chloride and some thing else to make the paste -- over heating --- black goo that does not allow the solder to flow

Tinning fluid is zinc chloride and water-- over heating --- no goo and some copper oxide from over heating
Also if the part is not crusted, it will clean , just with contact with it. No sand paper needed to clean

With any use of a tinning fluid or flux , You need Personnel Protection Devices. ------------------------------------------------
Zinc Chloride is corrosive -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The use of a tinning pot is good for a larger quantity , once set up , could do a hundred a hour or more

 

[time2roll]

Why tin the whole surface? The contact area around the hole is all that really matters.

 

[JimJr]

Why tin the whole surface? The contact area around the hole is all that really matters.

True, But it takes more time to do just the ends with a nice looking job

 

[time2roll]

I think it would be easier to focus on a small area. Heat and flux should be easier to control.

 

[chrisski]

https://www.amazon.com/RAM-PRO-Flex...d=1&keywords=acid+brush&qid=1629644571&sr=8-5
The biggest key to a good job is only use just enough heat so the solder flows.

I use the tinning fluid because it is more forgiving for a over heat situation , if you over heat , just brush on some more to clean and to cool down the part. Using a paste flux does not forgive a over heat well and burns into a black dirt that needs to be cleaned off , before you can proceed.

Paste flux is zinc chloride and some thing else to make the paste -- over heating --- black goo that does not allow the solder to flow

Tinning fluid is zinc chloride and water-- over heating --- no goo and some copper oxide from over heating
Also if the part is not crusted, it will clean , just with contact with it. No sand paper needed to clean

With any use of a tinning fluid or flux , You need Personnel Protection Devices. ------------------------------------------------
Zinc Chloride is corrosive -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The use of a tinning pot is good for a larger quantity , once set up , could do a hundred a hour or more

Going to try nickel plating today.

Seems like I ought to practice for this before ruining more of my Copper. I need a total of about 12” of bus bar for my battteries. I ruined three busbar s in my attempt yesterday, and I have seven left, which is exactly what I need for my 8 batteries. THere’s four scrap pieces Of copper I may try later on. I could not find a YouTUbe video of tinning busbar s with a MAF torch. At a later date, I may try tinning this copper.

You were pretty polite in the not bad for a first attempt. I think the picture makes it look horrible, and I did clean that quite a bit. Everything you said could go wrong,I did.

I did a bit of searching and came up with some instructions for nickel plating that seem doable. Turned out the plating instructions i found were the same source as used in the documenot in resources for nickel plating:

Tin Plating, Nickle Plating or Solder plating Bus bars

To get the downloads, click on the orange button at the top of the screen. This resource has two download files - A file documenting what I did to Tin plate bus-bars - An instructable on how to nickle plate copper. - A short word document on how...

diysolarforum.com

I’ve got two nickel rods showing up today to make the solution. I will use the DC power supply I got for charging my individual cells and use 6 volts at 1 amp to make the solution. Should take two hours, and once the solution is done, I hang the busbars in one at a time. Good way to spend a Sunday off work.

 

[Supervstech]

Going to try nickel plating today.

Seems like I ought to practice for this before ruining more of my Copper. I need a total of about 12” of bus bar for my battteries. I ruined three busbar s in my attempt yesterday, and I have seven left, which is exactly what I need for my 8 batteries. THere’s four scrap pieces Of copper I may try later on. I could not find a YouTUbe video of tinning busbar s with a MAF torch. At a later date, I may try tinning this copper.

You were pretty polite in the not bad for a first attempt. I think the picture makes it look horrible, and I did clean that quite a bit. Everything you said could go wrong,I did.

I did a bit of searching and came up with some instructions for nickel plating that seem doable. Turned out the plating instructions i found were the same source as used in the documenot in resources for nickel plating:

Tin Plating, Nickle Plating or Solder plating Bus bars

To get the downloads, click on the orange button at the top of the screen. This resource has two download files - A file documenting what I did to Tin plate bus-bars - An instructable on how to nickle plate copper. - A short word document on how...

diysolarforum.com

I’ve got two nickel rods showing up today to make the solution. I will use the DC power supply I got for charging my individual cells and use 6 volts at 1 amp to make the solution. Should take two hours, and once the solution is done, I hang the busbars in one at a time. Good way to spend a Sunday off work.

Those bussbars are not ruined. Easy to clean up and solder properly. I recommend setting the copper on a wire support. Flux liberally, heat from the opposite side you are tinning. Very low flame. Heat until the flux begins to bubble. If it is smoking, your flame is too close and too hot. Gently melt the solder on. Easy.

 

[Supervstech]

Why don't you use aluminium busbars?
You need a bit thicker but then alu busbar on alu terminal ... there is nothing better.

This is true, but aluminum builds up an oxide layer quickly. The oxide layer can create hot spots, and cause charging issues. They can be mitigated with sanding and pastes, but Tinned copper won’t have nearly as much an issue.

 

[mrzed001]

This is true, but aluminum builds up an oxide layer quickly. The oxide layer can create hot spots, and cause charging issues. They can be mitigated with sanding and pastes, but Tinned copper won’t have nearly as much an issue.

That is true.
But with only aluminium there is no galvanic corrosion.
The two plates are pressed together. Have corrosion blocking conductive paste between them. So no hotspot.

This is how the high V (11-245kV) lines work, only Alu (ACSR, steel reinforced) cable and alu terminal (no copper, no tin, no nickel).
So when even the professionals use this method why should we do it different ?

We have to live with this aluminium terminals.
In my opinion the best way to do so is by not inserting a different metal into the picture.
It is enough when we have to deal with it in the main terminals.

 

[chrisski]

Those bussbars are not ruined. Easy to clean up and solder properly. I recommend setting the copper on a wire support. Flux liberally, heat from the opposite side you are tinning. Very low flame. Heat until the flux begins to bubble. If it is smoking, your flame is too close and too hot. Gently melt the solder on

I hung the busbar from a wire and liberally coated in a water soluble flux paste and heated slowly with a torch. Instead of bubbling, the excess flux dripped off. I could not get the solder to flow to the heater like I do for tinning a small wire.

I did this for two more coats. And looked better than yesterday, but still not good:\


I am making my nickel solution now for electroplating. Turns out could take much longer than two hours to get the nickel acetone, so I’ll check it in the morning. Once the solution is green, I’ll try this on some scrap busbar s, and if this is good, I’ll coat the seven I will use.

 

[chrisski]

Well, nickel plating is not as easy as the resource makes it seem.

I was making my nickel solution, and instead of turning green, the nickel rod with the positive wire “Dissolved” and was completely gone, but had grown onto the Positive side. THe positive rod was completely gone on the vinegar line and below. Both rods bubbled, the negative more than the negative. I had it set to 6 volts and .8 amps. No green to the solution at all, the nickel that disappeared just attached itself to the opposite rod in a gray, sandy compound.

I restarted the reaction this morning an cranked up the power supply to 8 volts and 1 amp which is as high as my power supply would go. A You TUbe video recommended 15 volts and 1 amp and the reaction could take as quick as 15 minute for the solution to turn green.

The left side is Negative and you can see some bubbles coming off and the right side is positive and you can see a lot less bubbles coming off.

I am going to get some stronger cleaning vinegar. The household vinegar solution I used was 8%. Perhaps that’s not strong enough. Cleaning vinegar is 20%, so maybe that will work.

I’m pretty sure the black sands on the bottom of the jar is nIckel that was supposed to react with the vinegar and turn the liquid green. So something went wrong there. Could be voltage, current, or strength of the acid. Perhaps it was because I used sea salt instead of salt. For whatever reason my 30 volt 10 amp power supply can only deliver between 4 - 8 volts and no more than 1 amp across the solution. It will not conduct in the liquid anymore.

Ughh!!

 

[Diysolar123]

I just use hcajc8 on copper to copper connections and penetrox A-13 on al to copper connections...

 

[chrisski]

What do you do with the hcajc8, brush on just the connections or the whole busbar?

 

[Supervstech]

I hung the busbar from a wire and liberally coated in a water soluble flux paste and heated slowly with a torch. Instead of bubbling, the excess flux dripped off. I could not get the solder to flow to the heater like I do for tinning a small wire.

I did this for two more coats. And looked better than yesterday, but still not good:\

View attachment 61272
I am making my nickel solution now for electroplating. Turns out could take much longer than two hours to get the nickel acetone, so I’ll check it in the morning. Once the solution is green, I’ll try this on some scrap busbar s, and if this is good, I’ll coat the seven I will use.

Sorry… not hanging from a wire, they need to be supported by a wire. Remaining horizontally level. And at this point, they need to be fluxed, heated, and wiped off with a dry rag to remove the solder, then cleaned to be free of burned flux.
Once clean and coated with flux, heated slowly, they should flow solder well.

What kind of solder are you using? Plumbing solder? That stuff is difficult to use this way. 95/5 is a hot flow solder mostly tin, with 5% antimony a good tinning product. Even heating is critical…

 

[chrisski]

Had success today nickel plating busbars!! After the solution was made, boy was it easy:


Nickel on the right with the positive lead; Busbar on the left with the negative lead.

The solution is supposed to be green, but for some reason was not. To make the solution was a strip of nickel on each lead reacting for about 24 hours with 30% vinegar and fed by a DC power supply. About half a strip had reacted away so it completely disappeared in the vinegar, more nickel than the little but of "black salts" which fell off the electrode at the bottom could account for. I thought the solution was bad because it did not turn green, but it certainly coated really well!!

When I replaced the negative lead with the copper and dipped it, it immediately started to coat. I submerged the copper for about two minutes during which I flipped the hole the negative side attached to and shook the lead slightly to get an even coating.



Finished product compared to a blank:


When removed from the solution, it was a dull grey, but I took 800 grit sandpaper to it and it brought out the shine. I'll polish a but more and then put these on my 25 ah batteries.

I'm calling this a success and will not tin with solder.

 

[Supervstech]

Had success today nickel plating busbars!! After the solution was made, boy was it easy:

View attachment 61583
Nickel on the right with the positive lead; Busbar on the left with the negative lead.

The solution is supposed to be green, but for some reason was not. To make the solution was a strip of nickel on each lead reacting for about 24 hours with 30% vinegar and fed by a DC power supply. About half a strip had reacted away so it completely disappeared in the vinegar, more nickel than the little but of "black salts" which fell off the electrode at the bottom could account for. I thought the solution was bad because it did not turn green, but it certainly coated really well!!

When I replaced the negative lead with the copper and dipped it, it immediately started to coat. I submerged the copper for about two minutes during which I flipped the hole the negative side attached to and shook the lead slightly to get an even coating.



Finished product compared to a blank:

View attachment 61586
When removed from the solution, it was a dull grey, but I took 800 grit sandpaper to it and it brought out the shine. I'll polish a but more and then put these on my 25 ah batteries.

I'm calling this a success and will not tin with solder.

All the electroplating tutorials I have seen say to create an electrolyte solution by tinning just the electrolyte essentially. This turns the electrolyte nickel ion heavy leading to a better plating job.

 

[chrisski]

All the electroplating tutorials I have seen say to create an electrolyte solution by tinning just the electrolyte essentially.

I'm not sure what you mean. I did notice that some tutorials talk about putting the Nickel on the Positive and the metal you are coating on the negative, attach to a DC power supply, and then submerging in a diluted solution of hydrochloric acid (Mauriac Acid). With this method, there is no solution to prepare, but you deal with disposing of the acids. I was going to try that next if this does not work.

 

[Supervstech]