Grounding Rod Necessary

[Supervstech]

What is the definition of "an unbroken grounding conductor"?

A single strand of copper, #6 or larger that is not joined to another strand.

In other words, the wire must be run from the panel, through both clamps to the rods, and connected to any metal pipes in the structure. It cannot be several sections of wire joined by wire connectors, it must be an unbroken wire continuous from bussbar to the last clamp.

 

[erik.calco]

Yes, the grounding rod will bleed off the static electricity generated on a fixed structure as wind flows past it. ref
Small arrays will build up as much static voltages as a big one, but they won't have as much current.

But since you're outside the US check your local codes, not sure but static discharges usually aren't a problem in areas with a high humidity. (I have high humidity, but grounding rods are still code here).

Most homes will already have one, you just need to tie into it. Usually (not always) it's around where the electrical service entrance is. If not there, check around where the water main enters. Code in the U.S. is generally 8', but some places with little moisture or high soil resistivity need a whole lot more.

What gauge wire in US?

Anyone have a link to clips to put on each panel? The kind that dig in a little to get past the paint.

 

[upnorthandpersonal]

I've never really understood why current flows through the earth, I mean, it's just dirt and rock! Not the best conductors known to man!

You don't need a lot of current, just a few mA - just enough to make your ground fault detector know there is something wrong. In general though, your ground impedance is 5 Ohm or less, but is still called the high impedance path. However, if you think about it - a 30mA ground fault detector on a 230V net would work with a several kOhm ground impedance. You also rely on moisture content in the soil, and based on that (and other factors) you can create a pretty decent ground network - but whether or not you can rely on a rod, or you need a copper loop at a certain depth, depends on local conditions and code.

This article has a table with different soils and rule of thumb rod size/loop length and has quite some other details:
https://www.ee.co.za/article/principles-testing-methods-earth-ground-resistance.html

 

[tictag]

It cannot be several sections of wire joined by wire connectors, it must be an unbroken wire continuous from bussbar to the last clamp.

Do PV installers still use copper cable to ground PV system? I thought these 'WEEB' things were commonplace these days?*

*The Internet said, so it must be right...

 

[MrAubin]

Reading after the video, I think everyone should watch the video again......

 

[Woldj1321]

/s Why would anyone want to ground their electrical system, gee I wonder ? //s
A grounding Rod or Plate is pretty essential if you want a safe system. Vehicles are not grounded because they are isolated thanks to the rubber tires, but if your on land then you better ground.

Well then, that is my question. An RV on tires with two arrays and two turbines, how or do I ground?

 

[time2roll]

Well then, that is my question. An RV on tires with two arrays and two turbines, how or do I ground?

You only ground a mobile RV when you plug into the grid.

 

[MrAubin]

Sounds to me like he said don't ground the panels to thier own earth if close enough ground them to the house rod if off grid insulate them from the ground.that way the panels can't induce current and loop into the system and to the battery bank earth rod. Any induced current to the panels actual electronics will run to the controller which should already be grounded to the battery earth rod and dissipate out. Mobile would be the same I guess insulate panels from vehicle and connect the frames to the negative of the battery bank, if lightning hits a panel it's garbage. Nothing we do can save the panel from a hit. Panels are an ungrounded circuit, they have line in and line out. If you chassis ground rooftop panels and your vehicle is hit the current may pass through your panels to travel home as if they were insulated from the roof they might not get hit and any induced will travel out the controller. Hopefully someone has a better example.

 

[MrAubin]

Sounds to me like he said don't ground the panels to thier own earth if close enough ground them to the house rod if off grid insulate them from the ground.that way the panels can't induce current and loop into the system and to the battery bank earth rod. Any induced current to the panels actual electronics will run to the controller which should already be grounded to the battery earth rod and dissipate out. Mobile would be the same I guess insulate panels from vehicle and connect the frames to the negative of the battery bank, if lightning hits a panel it's garbage. Nothing we do can save the panel from a hit. Panels are an ungrounded circuit, they have line in and line out. If you chassis ground rooftop panels and your vehicle is hit the current may pass through your panels to travel home as if they were insulated from the roof they might not get hit and any induced will travel out the controller. Hopefully someone has a better example.

I'll watch that again tomorrow for a third time.

 

[jasonhc73]

I'll watch that again tomorrow for a third time.

I just finished up adding a 10-panel ground mount.

Even with no circuit, the panels were buzzing me as I mounted them onto the mount. I have no idea how this is happening, the MC4 was literally disconnected.

As soon as I put a ground stake and a bare wire onto the mount rails, all the zapping me stopped. I used the same grounding stake and bare copper the master electrician used two years ago when they installed my grid-tied setup.

Panel Mount Setup

After dismantling the dual-axis tracker, I had some mowing to do.

diysolarforum.com

ERICO 5/8 in. x 8 ft. Copper Grounding Bar Rod 615880UPC - The Home Depot

ERICO copper-bonded ground rods are the highest quality ground rods available today. We use a unique manufacturing process, which includes drawing the steel rod to size before the copper bonding process

www.homedepot.com

Southwire 25 ft. 6-Gauge Solid SD Bare Copper Grounding Wire 10638525 - The Home Depot

To safely ground new or existing electrical wiring, use this Southwire Company 25 ft. 6-Gauge Solid Bare Copper Grounding Wire. This annealed copper is of medium-hard temper. Can be used for residential

www.homedepot.com

Southwire 5/8 in. Grounding Rod or 1/2 in. Rebar Ground Rod Clamp for #10 SOL/STR - #2 STR Wire 65176440 - The Home Depot

Southwire ground rod clamps are used for connecting conductors to ground rods or rebar. This copper alloy clamp is suitable for direct burial. This clamp is specified for use with #10 SOL/STR - #2 STR

www.homedepot.com

 

[Rednecktek]

Always check your local codes and the NEC first and second, there are some wierdnesses involved with grounding. Trying to get utility power to my camp is telling me that I need 2 grounding plates at least 8ft apart and each plate has to have its own wire to the ground bar in my power panel.

Yet a different part of the NEC says the two ground plates have to be connected to each other under ground and THEN connected to my power panel.

I'm confused... I'll have to ask the inspector again and see what the 3rd answer is for the tie breaker.

 

[Zil]

A GFCI doesn't use the earth ground (green). They trip if different current between the neutral (white) and the hot (black) wires in a alternating current system.

 

[MrAubin]

I just finished up adding a 10-panel ground mount.

Even with no circuit, the panels were buzzing me as I mounted them onto the mount. I have no idea how this is happening, the MC4 was literally disconnected.

As soon as I put a ground stake and a bare wire onto the mount rails, all the zapping me stopped. I used the same grounding stake and bare copper the master electrician used two years ago when they installed my grid-tied setup.

Panel Mount Setup

After dismantling the dual-axis tracker, I had some mowing to do.

diysolarforum.com

ERICO 5/8 in. x 8 ft. Copper Grounding Bar Rod 615880UPC - The Home Depot

ERICO copper-bonded ground rods are the highest quality ground rods available today. We use a unique manufacturing process, which includes drawing the steel rod to size before the copper bonding process

www.homedepot.com

Southwire 25 ft. 6-Gauge Solid SD Bare Copper Grounding Wire 10638525 - The Home Depot

To safely ground new or existing electrical wiring, use this Southwire Company 25 ft. 6-Gauge Solid Bare Copper Grounding Wire. This annealed copper is of medium-hard temper. Can be used for residential

www.homedepot.com

Southwire 5/8 in. Grounding Rod or 1/2 in. Rebar Ground Rod Clamp for #10 SOL/STR - #2 STR Wire 65176440 - The Home Depot

Southwire ground rod clamps are used for connecting conductors to ground rods or rebar. This copper alloy clamp is suitable for direct burial. This clamp is specified for use with #10 SOL/STR - #2 STR

www.homedepot.com

Ask yourself how were you conducting a circuit from what you were touching, to where it wants to go. That will tell you of it was your panels or not. standing on your roof you will not be connected to any path to source. Therefore you couldn't create a circuit. So you had to be doing or touching something to get more than a single static shock per panel from shipping. Or I hope your panels are ok.

 

[MichaelK]

Always check your local codes and the NEC first and second, there are some wierdnesses involved with grounding. Trying to get utility power to my camp is telling me that I need 2 grounding plates at least 8ft apart and each plate has to have its own wire to the ground bar in my power panel.

Yet a different part of the NEC says the two ground plates have to be connected to each other under ground and THEN connected to my power panel.

What an electrical engineer explained in detail to me is that when multiple ground-rods/ground-plates are connected, they must be connected together in series with a SINGLE unbroken ground wire that runs back to the main electrical panel. All below-ground earthing elements like rods, water pipes, well casings, ect can be connected together in series with one wire, and all the above ground earthing elements like wall-sockets, light switches, ect can be connected together at a grounding bussbar, but the below ground earthing elements can meet the above-ground elements at one and only one location, most likely the main electrical panel.

In your case, I would trust the NEC before the local utility. The two plates 8 feet aparts sounds correct. Two separate ground wires does not.

 

[MrAubin]

I keep seeing unbroken wire to earth rod it can be cut and connected with a ring terminal and bolt or clamped on and a second clamp could be used to connect the second rod. It just means 1 earth system. If you have 2 rods separate lines to panel you make a loop. You don't want a loop.

 

[MrAubin]

I keep seeing unbroken wire to earth rod it can be cut and connected with a ring terminal and bolt or clamped on and a second clamp could be used to connect the second rod. It just means 1 earth system. If you have 2 rods separate lines to panel you make a loop. You don't want a loop.

Here I got it easy to grasp now. I drew some straight forward examples. Sorry that's not the order I took them but..... Basically you can't complete a circuit to the sun so grounding panels together to earth does nothing but create a risk of electrocution during a panel short. Remember what Mike said in the video current wants to go back to the source. Can't do that with the sun. Can only break the flow from the panel with fuses to protect the wire or a breaker switch at the panel. At that point I'd cover the panel meter it when no current flow remove cables and inspect panel inside.

 

[MrAubin]

I just finished up adding a 10-panel ground mount.

Even with no circuit, the panels were buzzing me as I mounted them onto the mount. I have no idea how this is happening, the MC4 was literally disconnected.

As soon as I put a ground stake and a bare wire onto the mount rails, all the zapping me stopped. I used the same grounding stake and bare copper the master electrician used two years ago when they installed my grid-tied setup.

Panel Mount Setup

After dismantling the dual-axis tracker, I had some mowing to do.

diysolarforum.com

ERICO 5/8 in. x 8 ft. Copper Grounding Bar Rod 615880UPC - The Home Depot

ERICO copper-bonded ground rods are the highest quality ground rods available today. We use a unique manufacturing process, which includes drawing the steel rod to size before the copper bonding process

www.homedepot.com

Southwire 25 ft. 6-Gauge Solid SD Bare Copper Grounding Wire 10638525 - The Home Depot

To safely ground new or existing electrical wiring, use this Southwire Company 25 ft. 6-Gauge Solid Bare Copper Grounding Wire. This annealed copper is of medium-hard temper. Can be used for residential

www.homedepot.com

Southwire 5/8 in. Grounding Rod or 1/2 in. Rebar Ground Rod Clamp for #10 SOL/STR - #2 STR Wire 65176440 - The Home Depot

Southwire ground rod clamps are used for connecting conductors to ground rods or rebar. This copper alloy clamp is suitable for direct burial. This clamp is specified for use with #10 SOL/STR - #2 STR

www.homedepot.com

The only way to get current off an unhooked panel and an unbonded panel is to have an internal short and you should have your panels tested also check the earth connection near the panels for line voltage I assume you will have some from a continual internal panel short. If they are bonded and you have an internal short don't touch anything grounded at the same time as the panel or you may get poked. Unhook earth from one panel and meter the flow from the panel to the earth line. That might show a short.

 

[MrAubin]

 

[MrAubin]

And I had planned to earth my array out back. Not anymore.........

 

[jasonhc73]

And I had planned to earth my array out back. Not anymore.........

Go outside and put the back of your hand on the frame of the panel, barefoot. If you feel it zapping you, you need to "earth" the array with a rod.

You can put 1 rod or 20. The E- is going to go to the one with the least resistance. They are not going to loop back on themself.