CATL 271Ah cell issues.

[Michael B Caro]

PayPal gives the the entity that the money was sent to something like 14 days to respond to a dispute. If that entity is too busy to respond, that is on them, and PayPal will issue the refund. If the entity thinks the refund was fraudulently obtained, they can appeal with PayPal.

PayPal has been taking the position that they will issue a refund out of my PayPal account as soon as they get evidence that the good were returned. There have been a couple of people that have shipped them and given PayPal a tracking number, but I do not see anyplace where I can see the tracking number. So I have no idea if they are trying to ship them to me or to China. Either way, PayPal freezes that amount of money and I can not touch it.

 

[Michael B Caro]

Sorry for these pointed questions Michael .... but isn't it your responsibility to be staffed in such a way that you can handle the business / businesses you are involved in? You chose to set yourself up to act as the negotiator / buyer for these people and now, 2 months downstream from the start of the problem things are out of control.

You don't seem to understand why people are so upset and are probably going to get a LOT more upset before this is over.

I'll butt out now, but I think it is a real shame you are still insinuating that people who got screwed over on this deal are stealing money from others .... It is YOUR responsibility to manage the money people have given you.

This is not a business as yet. I hope for it to become a full fledged business at some point, but at that point I will need to mark things up one heck of a lot more than I have been in order to afford staffing. I used a good portion of any profit there was to go above and beyond what suppliers did in the past, if I did not feel it was enough. I have done full refunds at times when the supplier involved only refunded a small portion of the cost of the cells. I then stopped using the supplier or two that pulled that. Unfortunately this supplier had shipped a ton of cells before I knew they were a problem. I vetted them just like I did the other suppliers.

When a ship lost containers over the side and 7 orders were delayed for many many months, I offered to order replacement cells for all 7 of them. 5 of them took me up on that offer and I ordered replacement cells out of my own pocket. Then when the original cells finally arrived I sold them to other buyers and the original buyers shipped them for me.

I could go on about the times I have bent over backwards to help people out and to provide the very best service I could, in spite of the low margins involved.

I DO understand why people are upset. NO ONE is more upset than I am. I stand to lose a hell of a lot more than anyone else if the supplier does not make this right.

These people were told that I would work with the supplier to remedy any problems.....work with.....put pressure on, and try to get things taken care of. I NEVER told anyone I would be 100% responsible for goods that I did not personally pack and ship.

Anyone that thinks I am sitting on an island with a fruity drink in my hand on their money is sadly mistaken. I guarantee I am losing a LOT more sleep over this than anyone else.

It is a shit situation and I am doing all I can to pull it out of the sewer.

 

[Michael B Caro]

You also told the Lishen buyers their money was "safe".

I told them that the money was in an account here that I had for this. The money for the cells WAS in that account. The small % I marked the cells up was not. So refunding 100% of what they sent would have required me to cover the rest of it, but the refunds to people that should not have received them changed those dynamics completely.

 

[NameBrand]

I did go ahead and call Kingspeed.
They said they are just a 3rd party and I would have to call the broker or seller.....so we are back to dealing with the supplier.

So what did they do with the package that FedEx "returned" to them? Throw it in the trash? Put it on another slow boat back to China?

FedEx Tracking shows that MSANCHEZ signed for this in Chino, CA back on September 16th. This one sounds like it's squarely in Kingspeed's court since they signed for it.

 

[Julianl]

So what did they do with the package that FedEx "returned" to them? Throw it in the trash? Put it on another slow boat back to China?

FedEx Tracking shows that MSANCHEZ signed for this in Chino, CA back on September 16th. This one sounds like it's squarely in Kingspeed's court since they signed for it.

Sanchez got my boxes too.

@Michael B Caro I know you are working on it but I’m still quite shocked to hear:

So far the supplier, who obviously doesn't appear to be trustworthy, is indicating that they do not know anything about them being recalled and that it must be the shipping forwarder doing that

I’m really worried for you. How is it that @NameBrand cells were sent back 30days ago and this is all that you are able to share?

 

[Michael B Caro]

So what did they do with the package that FedEx "returned" to them? Throw it in the trash? Put it on another slow boat back to China?

FedEx Tracking shows that MSANCHEZ signed for this in Chino, CA back on September 16th. This one sounds like it's squarely in Kingspeed's court since they signed for it.

Not that this is the root cause of all this, but shipping has been getting worse steadily for almost a year now.

Not sure yet where they go when they are returned.

 

[Michael B Caro]

Sanchez got my boxes too.

@Michael B Caro I know you are working on it but I’m still quite shocked to hear:

I’m really worried for you. How is it that @NameBrand cells were sent back 30days ago and this is all that you are able to share?

I am not the shipper and I am not the supplier. My information comes from the supplier and UPS and Alibaba.

I am terribly worried and losing LOTS of sleep over this whole deal. But this particular aspect is the least of my worries.

I think all that really matters on this is that there is documentation that they were recalled and never delivered to the buyer. If they are shipped DDP and never delivered it is pretty cut and dried that the supplier has to refund the money. DDP means that they are responsible until the buyer takes possesion

 

[Julianl]

I am not the shipper and I am not the supplier. My information comes from the supplier and UPS and Alibaba.

I am terribly worried and losing LOTS of sleep over this whole deal. But this particular aspect is the least of my worries.

I think all that really matters on this is that there is documentation that they were recalled and never delivered to the buyer. If they are shipped DDP and never delivered it is pretty cut and dried that the supplier has to refund the money. DDP means that they are responsible until the buyer takes possesion

That’s sounds great. I’ll leave you to it.

 

[b_cummings]

@Michael B Caro - I just want to say that although I haven't been expressing my worries or frustration publicly here in this thread, I indeed have felt greatly concerned.

I sincerely appreciate your communication here over the past two days. I know it doesn't change the facts of what's happened to date, but I feel less angst now waiting for a resolution. Thank-you.

 

[MCJEFE]

Michael,
I appreciated the call yesterday. To bad the .zip file couldn't be opened. Anyway a total of 15 emails, with I think 97 pics were sent of damages. If you need any more let me know.

Hopefully we won't have to do much back and forth with your supplier and we can get my issue off your plate.

Thanks for being a man of you word. I for one am still glad I ordered through you and that I have you dealing with a Chinese supplier on my behalf.

 

[Michael B Caro]

@Michael B Caro - I just want to say that although I haven't been expressing my worries or frustration publicly here in this thread, I indeed have felt greatly concerned.

I sincerely appreciate your communication here over the past two days. I know it doesn't change the facts of what's happened to date, but I feel less angst now waiting for a resolution. Thank-you.

Thank you

 

[Michael B Caro]

Michael,
I appreciated the call yesterday. To bad the .zip file couldn't be opened. Anyway a total of 15 emails, with I think 97 pics were sent of damages. If you need any more let me know.

Hopefully we won't have to do much back and forth with your supplier and we can get my issue off your plate.

Thanks for being a man of you word. I for one am still glad I ordered through you and that I have you dealing with a Chinese supplier on my behalf.

Thank you.

 

[Michael B Caro]

I don't know if any of you have been involved in international shipping to a deep degree, but if you have correct me if this information is wrong.

I have been told now by 2 people in the US that do/have dealt with international shipping a lot in their jobs that if the supplier ships refunds prior to any resolution between them and the shipping forwarder (who allegedly packed some of the cells), UPS/FedEx, and any insurance company that might be involved, it can be taken as an admission of fault by them (as in total fault) and negate any chance that they may have of not bearing the full loss.

I am NOT saying that that is gospel, or defending the supplier in any way. But, if true it could be part of the dynamics.

At the risk of getting a lot of questions I do not have answers to, the supplier is now talking about shipping replacement cells for anything that has zero voltage, is leaking, or damage that leaves them badly deformed.

I have told them that cells not delivered, at the very least, need to be included and that any cells that are swollen should also be included.

I am fully aware that having just cells in the categories they propose, and even if they include the two additional categories I am pressing for, would leave a LOT of you with only a portion of what you need for you projects and that many of you believe that these were used cells and will not be happy with anything less than refund or replacement of all of them. I am also aware that some of you have time constraints that make shipping replacements far less than a suitable solution. I am doing the best I can to get them to meet everyone's needs in the best way I can.

I will also repeat that if replacement cells are shipped by this supplier that, as a high volume buyer, I now have the right to have someone from Alibaba inspect the cells and packaging before they are shipped.

 

[Mightymach]

I am not the shipper and I am not the supplier. My information comes from the supplier and UPS and Alibaba.

I am terribly worried and losing LOTS of sleep over this whole deal. But this particular aspect is the least of my worries.

I think all that really matters on this is that there is documentation that they were recalled and never delivered to the buyer. If they are shipped DDP and never delivered it is pretty cut and dried that the supplier has to refund the money. DDP means that they are responsible until the buyer takes possesion

Michael-
Just an idea--Interest rates are still at all time lows and home values are at all time highs. 300 cells × $120 is $36,000. I know enough to have figured out your markup was at a minimum 10%

Why not just pull the $32,400 out of your home and make good with everyone and deal direct with the supplier?

At 3.5% interest this will cost you less than $150 a month. Isn't your sleep, health, and conscience worth that? It could possibly salvage your business and Boost your reputation. Perhaps this will boost sales and will offset your $145.49 monthly payment.

 

[AER]

Well for me, I am missing 2 packages on top of the 2 I got damaged. Funny thing is that apparently 1 package arrived empty and UPS threw the box away ? ?

 

[Michael B Caro]

I had 17 boxes coming from a totally different supplier. 13 showed up a couple of weeks ago. One showed up Wednesday that was re-boxed by FedEx and was trashed, and three are still supposed to be in transit.

I have a preliminary count of cells in each category but I want to make as sure as I can that I have the numbers right before submitting them.
So I am going to create yet another email address and send a specific request to each of the people that ordered from this supplier to verify the counts and make sure there is no one that does not check this thread that needs to chime in.

I will not post this new email address here as when I do I get a lot of stuff that is about other things and/or repetitive questions...which I understand but I really need a clean batch of emails with specific numbers to go to this email address.

This supplier is on notice from Alibaba and has a few days to respond.

I am now on my 3rd medication trying to get rid of a strep infection that has not responded to the first two.....but I am working on this diligently.

 

[markcm]

I had 17 boxes coming from a totally different supplier. 13 showed up a couple of weeks ago. One showed up Wednesday that was re-boxed by FedEx and was trashed, and three are still supposed to be in transit.

I have a preliminary count of cells in each category but I want to make as sure as I can that I have the numbers right before submitting them.
So I am going to create yet another email address and send a specific request to each of the people that ordered from this supplier to verify the counts and make sure there is no one that does not check this thread that needs to chime in.

I will not post this new email address here as when I do I get a lot of stuff that is about other things and/or repetitive questions...which I understand but I really need a clean batch of emails with specific numbers to go to this email address.

This supplier is on notice from Alibaba and has a few days to respond.

I am now on my 3rd medication trying to get rid of a strep infection that has not responded to the first two.....but I am working on this diligently.

Michael, thanks for your recent increase in communication here, as many others have mentioned, updates help ease tensions and the opposite comes of silence.

I recognize your comment here about keeping topics sorted and separated which brings up a question that others might have as well:

My order with you was updated a time or two due to availabilities and ended being CATL 310ah which from what I understand were a bad batch of batteries, both poor quality and poor packaging; mine never arrived do to an addressing issue from the sender (according to UPS). The question is: How do I know what "group" I am in so that I can respond to the correct emails with the correct information and know whether or not your posts apply to my situation or not?

 

[Michael B Caro]

Michael, thanks for your recent increase in communication here, as many others have mentioned, updates help ease tensions and the opposite comes of silence.

I recognize your comment here about keeping topics sorted and separated which brings up a question that others might have as well:

My order with you was updated a time or two due to availabilities and ended being CATL 310ah which from what I understand were a bad batch of batteries, both poor quality and poor packaging; mine never arrived do to an addressing issue from the sender (according to UPS). The question is: How do I know what "group" I am in so that I can respond to the correct emails with the correct information and know whether or not your posts apply to my situation or not?

As long as they are the CATL cells from the problem supplier, it does apply to your situation.

Your cells would be in the "never received" category......Which SHOULD be about the most clear cut, along with leaking cells, category there is.

I will only be sending one email from this new email address and responses should be limited to the questions in the email:

Number of cells ordered but not received. Including the tracking number for the box(s) not received and if they are supposedly still in transit or have been recalled by the shipper)
Number of cells received
Number of cells leaking
Number of cells with zero voltage (this is what they asked for but I would include cells with completely unacceptable voltages, even if above zero)
Number of cells badly damaged, misshapen
Number of cells with minor damage
Number of cells with no damage and usable.

Now that I am thinking more about it......it may be better for me to just call everyone on the list and get this info more quickly without having to worry about my email going to spam folder or otherwise being missed.

I think I will do that and then email those that I can not reach by phone for some reason.....

 

[markcm]

As long as they are the CATL cells from the problem supplier, it does apply to your situation.

Your cells would be in the "never received" category......Which SHOULD be about the most clear cut, along with leaking cells, category there is.

I will only be sending one email from this new email address and responses should be limited to the questions in the email:

Number of cells ordered but not received. Including the tracking number for the box(s) not received and if they are supposedly still in transit or have been recalled by the shipper)
Number of cells received
Number of cells leaking
Number of cells with zero voltage (this is what they asked for but I would include cells with completely unacceptable voltages, even if above zero)
Number of cells badly damaged, misshapen
Number of cells with minor damage
Number of cells with no damage and usable.

Now that I am thinking more about it......it may be better for me to just call everyone on the list and get this info more quickly without having to worry about my email going to spam folder or otherwise being missed.

I think I will do that and then email those that I can not reach by phone for some reason.....

Just my two cents but email is much easier and better for me. Either way, if phone is how you need to do it I'll do my best to answer but using the "phone" is ancient history for me.

 

[AER]

Just my two cents but email is much easier and better for me. Either way, if phone is how you need to do it I'll do my best to answer but using the "phone" is ancient history for me.

I don't do phone either