MarkSolar
Solar Enthusiast
Where is your panel with respect to the meter enclosure? There are 3 conduits coming into the enclosure, it looks like one goes down the wall to that LB that goes into the house. Where does the third conduit go?
Finally, the start of my 25kw Ground Mount grid-tie system
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live4soccer7
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The panel is directly on the other side of the meter. The other conduit goes to the house where I have two additional panels for the home. The garage that you see in the pictures was the first building on the property, so that's where the meter is. It works out nicely for this setup, I think.
MarkSolar
Solar Enthusiast
So there's a good chance that enclosure already has the lugs you'll need to make it easy to connect the PV. The only issue is how much current they're rated for, you have a very large backfeed.
live4soccer7
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We will hopefully find out soon enough. It would be very nice to have that aspect figured out certainly. Then I just have to worry about the last little details on grounding and mostly junction box type of stuff.
Hedges
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200A panel, 200A main breaker, you're allowed 40A PV breaker at the end of it, carrying 32A continuous.
Separate meter box and breaker panel makes it easier. You can branch off the wires between meter and main breaker (Line side tap).
There are devices to punch through insulation and make connections to hot wires.
Or, have utility yank meter to isolate while you bolt in a Polaris tap.
That branch could go to a 225A panel with 150A main breaker, so 120A of PV backfeed is allowed.
Or a fused disconnect, with suitable fused branches to inverters.
"production meter" fits in there somewhere. As shown in your diagrams, it is measuring your production that is then consumed by your house and/or backfed to grid. Just so long as they don't charge you for your own power when you don't "store" it in the grid.
Separate meter box and breaker panel makes it easier. You can branch off the wires between meter and main breaker (Line side tap).
There are devices to punch through insulation and make connections to hot wires.
Or, have utility yank meter to isolate while you bolt in a Polaris tap.
That branch could go to a 225A panel with 150A main breaker, so 120A of PV backfeed is allowed.
Or a fused disconnect, with suitable fused branches to inverters.
"production meter" fits in there somewhere. As shown in your diagrams, it is measuring your production that is then consumed by your house and/or backfed to grid. Just so long as they don't charge you for your own power when you don't "store" it in the grid.
live4soccer7
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Looks like permitting is all done. They just have to actually issue my permit at this point. I would think that will happen either today or tomorrow. I need to give sunmodo a call and speak with the contact at the utility company still. The utility company is closed today and he never returned my call yesterday. Hopefully I will hear from him Monday.
It's looking like I could be purchasing the racking sometime next week! At that point the project is definitely locked in and there's only one way forward! That is finishing it.
It's looking like I could be purchasing the racking sometime next week! At that point the project is definitely locked in and there's only one way forward! That is finishing it.
live4soccer7
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It looks like the infrastructure bill in the US passed. I found this article:
Extension and modification of energy credit. The provision extends the investment tax credit (ITC), which allows taxpayers to claim a tax credit for the cost of energy property. In most cases, the provision extends the credit for property for which construction begins by the end of 2026. The provision provides a base credit rate of six percent of the basis of energy property or a bonus credit rate of 30 percent of the basis of energy property. The provision provides that the base and bonus credit rates have been extended to solar energy property, geothermal energy property and heat pumps, fiber-optic solar equipment, fuel cell property, micro turbine property, combined heat and power property, small wind energy property, biogas property, waste energy recovery property and offshore wind property. Newly eligible property under the expanded ITC includes energy storage technology, biogas property, micro grid controllers, dynamic glass and linear generators. The ITC for geothermal heat pumps, combined heat and power property, and waste energy recovery property is extended to provide a six percent base credit rate or a 30 percent bonus credit rate through the end of 2031. The base credit rate phases down to 5.2 percent for facilities that commence construction in 2032 and 4.4 percent for facilities that commence construction in 2033. The bonus credit rate phases down to 26 percent in 2032 and 22 percent in 2033. These credit rates apply with respect to facilities placed into service after December 31, 2021.
I'm not familiar with terminology "base credit rate of six percent of the basis of energy property".
Is this stating that starting in 2022 the ITC will be 30% now instead of what is was going to be (26%)?
I'm trying to find a copy of the bill, but have been unsuccessful so far.
Extension and modification of energy credit. The provision extends the investment tax credit (ITC), which allows taxpayers to claim a tax credit for the cost of energy property. In most cases, the provision extends the credit for property for which construction begins by the end of 2026. The provision provides a base credit rate of six percent of the basis of energy property or a bonus credit rate of 30 percent of the basis of energy property. The provision provides that the base and bonus credit rates have been extended to solar energy property, geothermal energy property and heat pumps, fiber-optic solar equipment, fuel cell property, micro turbine property, combined heat and power property, small wind energy property, biogas property, waste energy recovery property and offshore wind property. Newly eligible property under the expanded ITC includes energy storage technology, biogas property, micro grid controllers, dynamic glass and linear generators. The ITC for geothermal heat pumps, combined heat and power property, and waste energy recovery property is extended to provide a six percent base credit rate or a 30 percent bonus credit rate through the end of 2031. The base credit rate phases down to 5.2 percent for facilities that commence construction in 2032 and 4.4 percent for facilities that commence construction in 2033. The bonus credit rate phases down to 26 percent in 2032 and 22 percent in 2033. These credit rates apply with respect to facilities placed into service after December 31, 2021.
I'm not familiar with terminology "base credit rate of six percent of the basis of energy property".
Is this stating that starting in 2022 the ITC will be 30% now instead of what is was going to be (26%)?
I'm trying to find a copy of the bill, but have been unsuccessful so far.
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live4soccer7
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I have found the following. The only thing I'm not sure about is I have seen a couple references to "roof top solar", so I'm hoping there isn't anything in the corresponding Section 48 that says it is only for roof top and not ground mount as well.
SEC. 136102. EXTENSION AND MODIFICATION OF ENERGY CREDIT.
(a) Extension of Credit.--The following provisions of section 48
are each amended by striking ``January 1, 2024'' each place it appears
and inserting ``January 1, 2034'':
(1) Subsection (a)(3)(A)(ii).
(2) Subsection (a)(3)(A)(vii).
(3) Subsection (c)(1)(D).
(4) Subsection (c)(2)(D).
(5) Subsection (c)(3)(A)(iv).
(6) Subsection (c)(4)(C).
(b) Phaseout of Credit.--Section 48(a) is amended by striking
paragraphs (6) and (7) and inserting the following new paragraphs:
``(6) Phaseout for solar energy property.--
``(A) In general.--Subject to subparagraph (B), in
the case of any energy property described in paragraph
(3)(A)(i) the construction of which begins before
January 1, 2034, the energy percentage determined under
paragraph (2) shall be equal to--
``(i) in the case of any property the
construction of which begins after December 31,
2019, and which is placed in service before
January 1, 2022, 26 percent,
``(ii) in the case of any property the
construction of which begins before January 1,
2032, and which is placed in service after
December 31, 2021, 30 percent,
``(iii) in the case of any property the
construction of which begins after December 31,
2031 and before January 1, 2033, 26 percent,
and
``(iv) in the case of any property the
construction of which begins after December 31,
2032 and before January 1, 2034, 22 percent.
``(B) Placed in service deadline.--In the case of
any energy property described in paragraph (3)(A)(i)
the construction of which begins before January 1,
2034, and which is not placed in service before January
1, 2036, the energy percentage determined under
paragraph (2) shall be equal to 10 percent.
source: https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/5376/text
Edit: Looking at article 48(a) I don't see any reference specifically stating roof top or ground mount, so I should be good with the 30% that will be instated for 2022. Every little bit helps. That worked out nicely. haha
SEC. 136102. EXTENSION AND MODIFICATION OF ENERGY CREDIT.
(a) Extension of Credit.--The following provisions of section 48
are each amended by striking ``January 1, 2024'' each place it appears
and inserting ``January 1, 2034'':
(1) Subsection (a)(3)(A)(ii).
(2) Subsection (a)(3)(A)(vii).
(3) Subsection (c)(1)(D).
(4) Subsection (c)(2)(D).
(5) Subsection (c)(3)(A)(iv).
(6) Subsection (c)(4)(C).
(b) Phaseout of Credit.--Section 48(a) is amended by striking
paragraphs (6) and (7) and inserting the following new paragraphs:
``(6) Phaseout for solar energy property.--
``(A) In general.--Subject to subparagraph (B), in
the case of any energy property described in paragraph
(3)(A)(i) the construction of which begins before
January 1, 2034, the energy percentage determined under
paragraph (2) shall be equal to--
``(i) in the case of any property the
construction of which begins after December 31,
2019, and which is placed in service before
January 1, 2022, 26 percent,
``(ii) in the case of any property the
construction of which begins before January 1,
2032, and which is placed in service after
December 31, 2021, 30 percent,
``(iii) in the case of any property the
construction of which begins after December 31,
2031 and before January 1, 2033, 26 percent,
and
``(iv) in the case of any property the
construction of which begins after December 31,
2032 and before January 1, 2034, 22 percent.
``(B) Placed in service deadline.--In the case of
any energy property described in paragraph (3)(A)(i)
the construction of which begins before January 1,
2034, and which is not placed in service before January
1, 2036, the energy percentage determined under
paragraph (2) shall be equal to 10 percent.
source: https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/5376/text
Edit: Looking at article 48(a) I don't see any reference specifically stating roof top or ground mount, so I should be good with the 30% that will be instated for 2022. Every little bit helps. That worked out nicely. haha
Last edited:
wattmatters
Solar Wizard
Not my thread but I think swsolarsupply should be reported for their spam.
live4soccer7
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@wattmatters already done. It doesn't even fit well into the project that's being discussed.
Not sure if I stated, but the county should be issuing the permit monday/tuesday. Everything has been stamped, approved, and paid for.
Not sure if I stated, but the county should be issuing the permit monday/tuesday. Everything has been stamped, approved, and paid for.
live4soccer7
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@MarkSolar You've got fronius inverters. Is there a DC disconnect for each MPPT input or just one for the entire inverter?
speaking with my electrician friend, I should only have to size the ground wire to the maximum current for a single disconnect and NOT the entire system. In my case, this could either be one entire array (48 panels since they're all on one mount) or perhaps one inverter or one MPPT if they are individually disconnected on the fronius. I'm not quite sure which one of these it is yet, but getting there. haha
speaking with my electrician friend, I should only have to size the ground wire to the maximum current for a single disconnect and NOT the entire system. In my case, this could either be one entire array (48 panels since they're all on one mount) or perhaps one inverter or one MPPT if they are individually disconnected on the fronius. I'm not quite sure which one of these it is yet, but getting there. haha
live4soccer7
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Alrighty. So I am responsible for tying the inverter power into the house. The utility company will provide me the meter BASE. I am now waiting a call back from someone in their engineering department. Hopefully he can shed some light as to what he would like to see or suggest give the amount of current.
MarkSolar
Solar Enthusiast
Only one disconnect, it's at the input to the inverter.
live4soccer7
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@MarkSolar Thanks! I know it is in the manual/install stuff somewhere as well, but I'm definitely scrambling to get things done. I need to get the ground worked before it freezes. I'm hoping I can do that in the next week. I'll post up a photo or two when I'm done with it.
MarkSolar
Solar Enthusiast
Ask your electrician friend to look inside the meter enclosure and see if there are lugs you can use for the line side tap.
live4soccer7
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@MarkSolar Unfortunately, it has a tamper proof type of clasp on it. I'll inquire about it when I hear from the engineer, hopefully today or tomorrow. Always waiting on phone calls.
wattmatters
Solar Wizard
Yes, it under the bottom of the inverter. In addition I have separate external DC isolators, one for each MPPT. It's a local code thing. We also have to have them on the rooftop as well.
live4soccer7
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Site pretty much ready for some framework! It's level within a few inches everywhere (at the worst). A few days with "bob" and it is good to go. I need to do some clean up around the edges and soften the back edge where it transitions to the field, but I'll do that with the excavator when I get it for trenching the rest of the conduit. There was about a 3.5 foot difference between the nearest corner in the pic and the far back corner, so we tried to take about 18" or so off the backside and bring it to the low side. It worked out pretty well and is very compacted now. It rained in between times of working on it, so that helped out a lot.
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live4soccer7
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Alright guys and gals. I've put down some money on the panels and I have purchased the sunmodo racking system. I have purchased this stuff from CED.
I'll likely purchase the inverters and some ancillaries from "thepowerstore". They came in way under on the Fronius inverters compared to everyone else. Since I'll being paying them a freight charge, I may as well see what else I can get from them too. This is where I may need you guys on some ideas for what else I'll need to snag.
I'll likely purchase the inverters and some ancillaries from "thepowerstore". They came in way under on the Fronius inverters compared to everyone else. Since I'll being paying them a freight charge, I may as well see what else I can get from them too. This is where I may need you guys on some ideas for what else I'll need to snag.
Hedges
I See Electromagnetic Fields!
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disconnect switches (if not enough integrated in inverters) Does utility require a visible-blade disconnect?
Surge arrestors (e.g. Midnight)
Grounding - does the rack take care of that (WEEB)? Or do you need lugs to lay a wire in?
MC wires/pigtails/Y connectors
Combiner boxes? (If inputs to Fronius aren't sufficient and you're paralleling more than 2 PV strings.
I suppose Fronius is transformerless? Does it contain the required fuses for both ends of PV string? (Last I heard that was needed for transformerless, but my experience is with decade old equipment.)
If you use wire nuts anywhere, I like "Ideal" set-screw wirenuts.
Surge arrestors (e.g. Midnight)
Grounding - does the rack take care of that (WEEB)? Or do you need lugs to lay a wire in?
MC wires/pigtails/Y connectors
Combiner boxes? (If inputs to Fronius aren't sufficient and you're paralleling more than 2 PV strings.
I suppose Fronius is transformerless? Does it contain the required fuses for both ends of PV string? (Last I heard that was needed for transformerless, but my experience is with decade old equipment.)
If you use wire nuts anywhere, I like "Ideal" set-screw wirenuts.
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