Schneider xw pro 6848 not powering up with eg4 lithium battery

[Bluedog225]

Seems to me, drive out, swap a battery, swap an inverter, bring the original back, check it out. Problem analyzed by 5 pm tomorrow.

Or keep getting beat up in a thread bordering on epic. 540 posts so far. How long does Signature Solar want this publicity?

Choose.

 

[Mr-Sandman]

I also need to know where the DIY community wants to draw the line on support vs ...well DIY.

While you market to and sell to the DIY community, I would not call your batteries DIY.. They are packaged units, unserviceable or even configurable by the end user. We hook the power cables up and turn the switch on, that's it.

If they was raw batteries or even kits, that we build and can configure, that's DIY... These packs are being used on commercial and DIY system alike. So the expectation of them powering a commercial inverter up, certainly falls under something you should support.

 

[robby]

It's not special treatment, it's solving an issue YOUR batteries are having with certain inverters. No one expects you guys to travel to country solving every issue. But you have failed to reproduce this issue so far and there is more than 1 person having this issue.

I would already be setting up a time for my engineer(s) to visit @Koldsimer since his less than an hour away and get to the bottom of this for EVERYONE's benefit, including your own.. You not seeing this as an opportunity and having the attitude of "why would we do this" makes me scratch my head. Don't you want to get to the root cause and either fix it or tell your customer base what the issue is?

I am also amazed and puzzled by the response. If Signature Solar is having zero issues with this model Inverter at their shop then they should be confident that the same battery hooked up to @Koldsimer inverter will work.

It eliminates all the guess work. They can bring along the same working battery and if his does not work they can then try the one they bought with them. That will narrow down the issue and maybe expose a bad batch of batteries. If they cannot get either battery to work then they can start examining the settings and wiring of his system. If they find a setting that makes it work or a wiring issue that was causing the problem they will then have answers and one independent user who can confirm that indeed it was his systems fault. Problem solved!

 

[MrM1]

@Koldsimer as close as you are I'd make an apt and load up Ur inverter and batteries in the car and go to them. If Ur batteries don't work for your inverter but their's do work, swap batteries. If nothing works, get a full refund and start shopping.

But I really don't see a resolution coming any more other wayside.

 

[mnd]

@Koldsimer as close as you are I'd make an apt and load up Ur inverter and batteries in the car and go to them. If Ur batteries don't work for your inverter but their's do work, swap batteries. If nothing works, get a full refund and start shopping.

But I really don't see a resolution coming any more other wayside.

What are the odds that he's got four "bad" batteries though?

 

[MrM1]

What are the odds that he's got four "bad" batteries though?

Slim. But perhaps a different production run.

If SS is getting their batteries to work with an XW, it's either his batteries or his inverter.

 

[Mr-Sandman]

If SS is getting their batteries to work with an XW, it's either his batteries or his inverter.

Remember his inverter powers up fine with Lead Acid bank and even a different brand of Lithium. It's something to do with the EG4 LifePower4 batteries. Probably pre-charge circuit related. Probably fixable by SS. Same fix will likely fix the others models having issues.

 

[Hedges]

I wasn't suggesting SS start doing on-site installation for all customers.
Nor that some customers get special treatment.
Good that 10 different brands/models all worked OK. Now what if a few percent of each model has problems? You just didn't get "lucky".
You have several customers who's battery + inverter don't work. Some are near by. Visit them, debug there or swap hardware and debug in your lab.
All your customers (and you) win if you figure out how to fix the issue, so 100% of systems work in the future.
Just regard some (or all) failing customer systems as beta-test.

 

[Bluedog225]

Agreed. There is someone upstairs making a poor management decision based on principal. It’s probably an engineer (chuckle…I actually do like engineers).

 

[Solar Guy Richard]

Hey hey hey now everyone. I'm definitely still here, still working on figuring out the problem, and getting a solution for @Koldsimer. Let me just say maybe my previous responses sounded incorrect because they were typed out. I'm not trying to have attitude or anything at all, please don't take my statements that way. As I've demonstrated on numerous occasions, I'll paddle upstream without a paddle to figure out what the problem is and make it right. That's a "Richard from Signature Solar" guarantee. I will make this a higher priority (if one exists) tomorrow when I'm back in the office. I'm not afraid to be beat up on the forums at all, I just really hope you guys weren't taking my previous replies the wrong way. Reading them back, I can see how they sound nonchalant and as though I'm redirecting. I promise that wasn't my intent. I am genuinely curious and that's why I was asking questions.

Regarding going to a customers house - as a business that brings a whole new set issues into play. Insurance, liability, the works. Especially if we are going to be swapping out products with a system that designed and built by someone else --- that only has our batteries --- and finding out what happens from there. I'll figure out a way to make this work somehow, someway. I just don't know what the legalities behind something like that is and can't make a statement about it.

The DIY comment wasn't referring to DIYing the batteries. I completely understand there are people out there that go so far as to DIY their own batteries, and personally think that's awesome! My DIY comments are more directed to the overall build. I don't know if Koldsimmer built his own system, or hired professionals. I don't know if he bought everything else new, used, or built it himself. And when I'm dealing with an issue, where we have the exact same components, but there is a failure externally, it is not in the realm of imagination that the issue might not be the inverter or the battery at all, it could be something else that is being completely overlooked. Again, we didn't put the whole system together and so there is no way for us to know.

With all this being said, I'll find out an answer for everyone this week one way or another. I don't know exactly how I'm going to do that yet, but lets just put the "Richard from Signature Solar" guarantee to the test. Can everyone agree with me on these points, and if not please help me to understand how I can keep helping, and keep moving the solar community forward.

@Koldsimer @Hedges @Mr-Sandman @MrM1 @robby @Bluedog225

 

[Mr-Sandman]

While my EG LL batteries power up and work fine with my Schneider XW Pro, I'm anxious to hear the root cause and solution for the EG LifePower4 batteries and these inverters having issues.

@signaturesolarrichard a simple test that you guys have the ability to do with @Koldsimer being nearby. Take/Loan/Trade an EG4 LL out for one of his EG4 LifePower4 batteries. Have him see if the EG4 LL powers his inverter up connected exactly as the LifePower4 batteries are. If it does, no question the EG4 LifePower4 has an issue of some kind. If it doesn't maybe there's something weird with his inverter. This doesn't solve the issue, but rather will show if it's the LifePower4 indeed has an issue or not.

 

[Koldsimer]

While my EG LL batteries power up and work fine with my Schneider XW Pro, I'm anxious to hear the root cause and solution for the EG LifePower4 batteries and these inverters having issues.

@signaturesolarrichard a simple test that you guys have the ability to do with @Koldsimer being nearby. Take/Loan/Trade an EG4 LL out for one of his EG4 LifePower4 batteries. Have him see if the EG4 LL powers his inverter up connected exactly as the LifePower4 batteries are. If it does, no question the EG4 LifePower4 has an issue of some kind. If it doesn't maybe there's something weird with his inverter. This doesn't solve the issue, but rather will show if it's the LifePower4 have an issue or not.

I'd be willing to drive up there to swap one out for testing purposes.

 

[mnd]

I'd be willing to drive up there to swap one out for testing purposes.

If your "bad" battery on their inverter doesn't work that would seem pretty conclusive.

 

[Koldsimer]

If your "bad" battery on their inverter doesn't work that would seem pretty conclusive.

I'd be more interested in taking an LL to see if it works with my system.

 

[Mr-Sandman]

If your "bad" battery on their inverter doesn't work that would seem pretty conclusive.

That would be a good test also. But SS test inverter has never failed to start, so unless he truly has a "bad" battery, which I doubt he has multiple bad batteries, it's likely something specific to @Koldsimer inverter or configuration and the LifePower4 batteries.

Seeing if an EG4 LL battery hooked to the same battery connections as the Lifepower4, powers it or not, would be very telling.

 

[Mahendra Gomanie]

That would be a huge downgrade from what you have. No way I would buy a Growatt 5000ES. Maybe you are being sarcastic, hahahaha.

True.
I like growatts but Xantrx,outback,magnum has a good track record.
Thus our reason for.choosijg them

 

[Solar Guy Richard]

That would be a good test also. But SS test inverter has never failed to start, so unless he truly has a "bad" battery, which I doubt he has multiple bad batteries, it's likely something specific to @Koldsimer inverter or configuration and the LifePower4 batteries.

Seeing if an EG4 LL battery hooked to the same battery connections as the Lifepower4, powers it or not, would be very telling.

True, but it still wouldn't tell us the 'WHY' of it not working. And that's what I'm really interested in. It would be a solution for this specific situation and customer, but wouldn't help solve the underlying issue so we could just fix it for all customers.

 

[Bluedog225]

Another thought while I’m looking at this thread. I get why Signature Solar doesn’t want to lay hands on a private installation. Liability etc.

But driving out and handing the guy a loaner battery on his driveway, he installs, doesn‘t seem problematic.

He can invite you in for a cup of coffee while he installs.

Or handing the guy a check for $250 to hire an electrician to go in a look over his install. Third party licensed electrician. Signature Solar never touches the system. The electrician reports back.

I get that dealing with people is messy. But it seems there are ways to get more info that are better than ordering $10,000 of inverters and deciding the problem cannot be duplicated on the bench.

 

[mnd]

Another thought while I’m looking at this thread. I get why Signature Solar doesn’t want to lay hands on a private installation. Liability etc.

But driving out and handing the guy a loaner battery on his driveway, he installs, doesn‘t seem problematic.

He can invite you in for a cup of coffee while he installs.

Or handing the guy a check for $250 to hire an electrician to go in a look over his install. Third party licensed electrician. Signature Solar never touches the system. The electrician reports back.

I get that dealing with people is messy. But it seems there are ways to get more info that are better than ordering $10,000 of inverters and deciding the problem cannot be duplicated on the bench.

When you DIY, what portion of the risk of integration are you taking on?

SS asked (essentially) this question a page or so ago.

 

[Bluedog225]

If I tell someone my product is plug and play, what obligation do I take on as a seller?

500 posts. Think we will reach 1000? The reputation damage is hard to calculate.