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Can’t get my espresso maker to work! ?

Covertoperations

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Nov 16, 2020
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Hi and thanks in advance for any help!
I have a Sprinter van I’ve converted to an RV. I bought it with an extra battery bank installed in the engine compartment which consisted of 2 210AH 6 volt LA batteries in series for 12v. I also have 2000 watt inverter. It worked great for everything small, including a Norcold portable refrigerator which draws 5 amps. However, I couldn’t run my 800watt espresso maker. So I installed another 210AH in parallel for 420AH about 10’ from the 1st bank next to the inverter. Still doesn’t work! When I turn it on, after being fully charged, voltage at the batteries drops to about 12.4v but voltage on the inverter says below 11v and the inverter shuts off. It does work when I use the generator, though.. but at 7 am in the morning I’m probably not making any friends.. ?. Any suggestions?
 
Hi and thanks in advance for any help!
I have a Sprinter van I’ve converted to an RV. I bought it with an extra battery bank installed in the engine compartment which consisted of 2 210AH 6 volt LA batteries in series for 12v. I also have 2000 watt inverter. It worked great for everything small, including a Norcold portable refrigerator which draws 5 amps. However, I couldn’t run my 800watt espresso maker. So I installed another 210AH in parallel for 420AH about 10’ from the 1st bank next to the inverter. Still doesn’t work! When I turn it on, after being fully charged, voltage at the batteries drops to about 12.4v but voltage on the inverter says below 11v and the inverter shuts off. It does work when I use the generator, though.. but at 7 am in the morning I’m probably not making any friends.. ?. Any suggestions?
What is your inverter? Also what size and length are the wires between the battery and the inverter?

Cheap inverters rarely are able to output the power they claim to, and the whimpy cables that are normally supplied with them mean they are lucky to output half their rated power.

2000W at 12V will draw 180 Amps (when allowing for inefficiencies in the inverter). That means 1/0 AWG or bigger wires. I would use 2/0 AWG unless these wires are very short.
 
Edit, just noticed 10'. That means 20' round trip. 2/0 AWG is definitely the smallest size wire I would suggest. Is there anything else in series between the batteries and the inverter, like a current shunt, contactor or a battery protect module? Perhaps these aren't able to handle the current draw? Contactors can go bad and limit current.
 
Hi and thanks! Yes, it’s a Naturepower inverter. I don’t think it’s that expensive. The wires used are 1/0. The error code I get is for under voltage. I was concerned about the inverter or the wires since it reads differently than the batteries do. Or, is it a problem if one bank is 10 feet from the other bank?
 
Hi and thanks! Yes, it’s a Naturepower inverter. I don’t think it’s that expensive. The wires used are 1/0. The error code I get is for under voltage. I was concerned about the inverter or the wires since it reads differently than the batteries do. Or, is it a problem if one bank is 10 feet from the other bank?
Got a link to the literature for the inverter or a model number?

And yes, 10 feet of cable (actually 20) between banks means you are going to be drawing a lot more current from the closer bank which is going to unbalance the banks (leading to the earlier demise of the closer bank).

With 1/0 wire, I have a hard time understanding how the voltage could sag that much though. Like I asked in my second post, what else is wired in-between batteries and inverter?
 
Edit, just noticed 10'. That means 20' round trip. 2/0 AWG is definitely the smallest size wire I would suggest. Is there anything else in series between the batteries and the inverter, like a current shunt, contactor or a battery protect module? Perhaps these aren't able to handle the current draw? Contactors can go bad and limit current.
Yes there is a fuse block. Is that what you mean?
 
2000W inverters for $300 doesn't lead me to
Yes there is a fuse block. Is that what you mean?
Possible. Do you have anything else in series? A current measuring shunt or a relay contactor or a battery protect module?

What is the fuse rating? And fuses can go bad. Do you have a replacement fuse you can try? Also need to tighten up all the connections. A loose connection would work under a light load, but create problems under a heavy load.

Hate to be pessimistic, but to be honest I don't expect much out of a 2000W inverter that only costs $300. That is basically the very bottom of the barrel.
 
Tua
2000W inverters for $300 doesn't lead me to

Possible. Do you have anything else in series? A current measuring shunt or a relay contactor or a battery protect module?

What is the fuse rating? And fuses can go bad. Do you have a replacement fuse you can try? Also need to tighten up all the connections. A loose connection would work under a light load, but create problems under a heavy load.

Hate to be pessimistic, but to be honest I don't expect much out of a 2000W inverter that only costs $300. That is basically the very bottom of the barrel
 
Is this the inverter?


The cables that come with it look like the typical 6 AWG cables that come with most cheap Chinese inverters.


It’s actually an inverter/charger. Sold out or unavailable at Home Depot, AmAzon and Above link. Was listed at $550 at Home Depot. The cables used are 1/0. I know you mentioned round trip would be 20’ but I wanted to mention that the negative side of the battery banks are grounded to the car body. The inverter charger is also grounded to the car body. So just the positive cable running 10’ from engine compartment back. I don’t know how grounding to the car body affects the voltage drop or not. There is a Wirthco battery doctor battery 150 amp isolator between the auxiliary battery banks and the starter battery too. There’s nothing else that I’m aware of so just they fuse block. I don’t have another I’d have to buy a new one to check it I guess.
I’m thinking of trying to move the engine auxiliary bank back next to the inverter/charger with the other aux bank. Below is pretty much what I have except where the diagram shows vihicle accessory circuits, there is an additional battery bank in between the inverter charger. 1605712382928.png
 

It’s actually an inverter/charger. Sold out or unavailable at Home Depot, AmAzon and Above link. Was listed at $550 at Home Depot. The cables used are 1/0. I know you mentioned round trip would be 20’ but I wanted to mention that the negative side of the battery banks are grounded to the car body. The inverter charger is also grounded to the car body. So just the positive cable running 10’ from engine compartment back. I don’t know how grounding to the car body affects the voltage drop or not. There is a Wirthco battery doctor battery 150 amp isolator between the auxiliary battery banks and the starter battery too. There’s nothing else that I’m aware of so just they fuse block. I don’t have another I’d have to buy a new one to check it I guess.
I’m thinking of trying to move the engine auxiliary bank back next to the inverter/charger with the other aux bank. Below is pretty much what I have except where the diagram shows vihicle accessory circuits, there is an additional battery bank in between the inverter charger. View attachment 27890
You are also creating possible ground loops with multiple connections to the vehicle chassis. You need a negative bus with one big cable (1/0) to the chassis.
 
The inverter/charger looks a lot like a rebrand or clone of a Kisae-Abso 2000. If so it should not be the problem. I have one and it is more than capable of supporting an 800 watt espresso maker. I have to think that a combination of undersized long cable runs and using the chassis as the ground path is causing the voltage drop. In my Winnebago ERA they did ground TO the chassis but all grounds go via cable to a one of two Mercedes designated ground point under the driver's seat and near the rear axle. Theoretically the chassis should be a good ground path but it matters where and how the connections are made. In most applications I have seen, direct cable connection of the shortest length possble from battery bank to inverter is the way to go.
 
If you can find out your inverters low voltage cutoff, that may be the problem.

I have a battery bank about your size. At night my batteries were charged to 12.6 volts and SOC read 82%, and my crock pot kicked on at 1000 watts, of which my battery and could only push 12.02 volts to supply that. If your inverter has a low voltage cutoff of 12 volts, something like that could have shut it down.

I do agree that a $300 inverter may not be up to the task.

I Decided on 4/0 wire for my 2000 watt inverter with a 5' total run to the busbar and then 10' total run to the battery. With an ambient temp of 80 degrees and 1100 watts running, The wire did not even warm up. I measured it with an infrared gun and to the touch.

I'm far on the conservative side, but I think your wiring is too skinny for the 800 watt coffee pot and an inverter not rated to UL458 may not perform as claimed.
 
The inverter/charger looks a lot like a rebrand or clone of a Kisae-Abso 2000. If so it should not be the problem. I have one and it is more than capable of supporting an 800 watt espresso maker. I have to think that a combination of undersized long cable runs and using the chassis as the ground path is causing the voltage drop. In my Winnebago ERA they did ground TO the chassis but all grounds go via cable to a one of two Mercedes designated ground point under the driver's seat and near the rear axle. Theoretically the chassis should be a good ground path but it matters where and how the connections are made. In most applications I have seen, direct cable connection of the shortest length possble from battery bank to inverter is the way to go.
This is it. The manufacturer of the van never envisioned passing 100+ amps through that portion of the chassis. It never even entered my mind you were using the vehicle chassis for the return current path. This is so not a good idea.

Add a separate 1/0 ground wire from the battery negative to the inverter negative and see what happens.
 
I agree on running a dedicated ground/negative wire. You've got some serious voltage drop.

I have a 12v 1000 watt MSW inverter connected to my battery bank using 1/0 cable on both positive and negative. The distance is maybe 24". I've never had the inverter cut out due to low voltage when the 900w coffee maker is fired up. When I was using lead acid batteries the cable distance was about 5' and it never had a problem there either. I think the Xantrex owner's manual was very clear that both legs needed to be direct cable.
 
Make sure the inverter is pure sine wave. I used a Modified Sine Wave inverter and it smoked an Nespresso unit. Modified Sine work well for things with heating elements (like a toaster) but not as well with things with motors (like a pump or tools.). I'm not an expert, but sometimes computers don't like MSW, either. I'm not sure why, because they convert to DC in the power supply.

I do not think that is your problem, however.

As already pointed out, the voltage drop is the likely problem. Use an online voltage calculator to plan the cable sizing and your voltage drop below 1% or maybe 2%.

I'm using 4/0 cables on my 2800W inverter (it has 5kW startup capability and adjustable LVCO). And they are quite short, the runs. 5' each + and ground. I see battery voltage @ the inverter during heavy AC use.

Use a voltage drop calculator like on calculator.net to predict the loss and then gauge your cables.

Doug
 
Wondering if you're willing to share any data. I've got a SAMLEX 2000 watt Pure Sine Wave hooked up with 4/0. I got this to run 1200 watts for three to five minutes, microwave popcorn. I have not done that, but I had the inverter running for a few minutes at 1100 watts output and I measured the temps, and the wires never warmed up, and neither did the inverter. I was pretty happy with that. With the solar panels running, the voltage never dropped, but at night time, voltage draw went from 12.6 to 12.0.
 
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