Please help!!! Big system error!

Iaconebadger · Jul 29, 2021

Disclaimer: I’m a complete beginner. So I have a 24 V system. I am using two 200 amp hour “ampere time” lithium iron phosphate batteries in series (4800 watts). My system is built with almost every component from mobile solar power site.( https://www.mobile-solarpower.com/2000-watt-24v-solar-system.html ) it’s been up and running for almost two weeks now and has been really fun to watch it all work. I have a Victron Charge controller mppt 100/50 and victron bmv 712 to see how the system is doing. It’s been great. My loads are very minimal. I only run fans currently and it’s an average of 80 watts per hour. My system is always at 100 percent about 26.9 to 27.5 volts approximately. I have a 3000watt inverter for a coffe machine I’ve used.
Tonight I came home from a trip to the super market and my inverter was beeping continuously. I think it read “PL” on the little screen. All my power was gone. No lights would work on either dc or ac side of my system. When I tested the voltage of my batteries they continued to drop rapidly. Now they read 1.8 volts. I don’t know where to begin in order to trouble shoot. I don’t know what could have pulled that much power? I’m completely off grid here and completely lost.

Q-Dog · Jul 29, 2021

Sounds like a battery BMS has shut down.

Iaconebadger · Jul 29, 2021

Q-Dog said:
Sounds like a battery BMS has shut down.

Is that a simple fix by doing some sort of reset? or is it a warranty type deal? These are only a few months old

Q-Dog · Jul 29, 2021

Iaconebadger said:
Is that a simple fix by doing some sort of reset? or is it a warranty type deal? These are only a few months old

If it is a BMS shutdown, the fix sort of depends on what caused it to shut down. Could be a battery failure. Could be overcharged. Could be over temperature. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

What does your inverter manual say about the fault code? What does the battery manufacturer say about resetting a BMS fault?

mikefitz · Jul 30, 2021

Disconnect all loads from the battery, disable the Victron 100/50 (use the app), disconnect the solar from the 100/50. Disconnect the series link between the two batteries. Hopefully the BMS in each battery will reset and you should see volts at the terminals. If no luck use a 12v charger on each battery this should reset the BMS.
Its possible there is a fault in the circuits connected to the battery, the design layout you followed is somewhat unclear in places, for example do not use the Victron battery protect to power the inverter. Fuses, circuit breaker or the inverter could have failed.
An actual connection diagram of your system would be useful.

Mike

Iaconebadger · Jul 30, 2021

mikefitz said:
Disconnect all loads from the battery, disable the Victron 100/50 (use the app), disconnect the solar from the 100/50. Disconnect the series link between the two batteries. Hopefully the BMS in each battery will reset and you should see volts at the terminals. If no luck use a 12v charger on each battery this should reset the BMS.
Its possible there is a fault in the circuits connected to the battery, the design layout you followed is somewhat unclear in places, for example do not use the Victron battery protect to power the inverter. Fuses, circuit breaker or the inverter could have failed.
An actual connection diagram of your system would be useful.

Mike

Thank you Mike for your help. I am currently at work but will be messaging you as I go through this I really appreciate your step-by-step guidance here and I will give you more details when I have time.

stienman · Jul 30, 2021

If you're using the giandel inverter the site recommends, its manual states:

When the inverter is in work condition, the input voltage and output power will be
shown on the digital display screen by turns. Likewise, when the inverter goes into
protection, corresponding letters will be also shown on the screen. Different letters
mean the inverter is in different protection conditions.

1. When the input (V) LED is on, the current input voltage is shown.
2. When the output (KW) LED is on, the current output power(KW)is shown.
3. When the output (W) LED is on, the current output power(W)is shown.
4. LO means the inverter is in under voltage protection.
5. HI means the inverter is in over voltage protection.
6. OL means the inverter is in overload protection or short-circuits protection.
7. OH means the inverter is in OVER HEAT protection.

There is no "PL" code, so if your inverter is showing that then you'll need to email their support line.

I agree with everyone else, your batteries have probably gone into protection mode. The battery manual states that disconnecting the batteries for 30 minutes should work to reset them. If that doesn't work, then charging them, either by putting them in parallel with another known good and working battery, or using a charger, will reset the internal protection:

https://diysolarforum.com/attachments/ampere-time-12v200ahplus-200abms-product-manual-pdf.33681/

Once resolved, you need to take a hard look at why the protection kicked in. If the batteries need to be charged, then you must have left a load on and they went into protection mode once the voltage got low enough. If the batteries are fully charged then you may want to look at your solar charge controller and verify it isn't putting too high a charging voltage on the batteries. Other problems are certainly possible, but those two are the most common.

Steve_S · Jul 30, 2021

26.9-27.5 is well within safe & correct charging point voltages, not overdriving charge. So I would think it's is not an HVD (Hi Volt Disconnect) condition. An attempted Equalization could do it ! Verify the charge profile does not try to Equalize/desulphate (not applicable to any lithium chemistry).

Iaconebadger · Jul 30, 2021

stienman said:
If you're using the giandel inverter the site recommends, its manual states:

There is no "PL" code, so if your inverter is showing that then you'll need to email their support line.

I agree with everyone else, your batteries have probably gone into protection mode. The battery manual states that disconnecting the batteries for 30 minutes should work to reset them. If that doesn't work, then charging them, either by putting them in parallel with another known good and working battery, or using a charger, will reset the internal protection:

https://diysolarforum.com/attachments/ampere-time-12v200ahplus-200abms-product-manual-pdf.33681/

Once resolved, you need to take a hard look at why the protection kicked in. If the batteries need to be charged, then you must have left a load on and they went into protection mode once the voltage got low enough. If the batteries are fully charged then you may want to look at your solar charge controller and verify it isn't putting too high a charging voltage on the batteries. Other problems are certainly possible, but those two are the most common.

Appreciate your help so much!

Iaconebadger · Jul 30, 2021

Steve_S said:
26.9-27.5 is well within safe & correct charging point voltages, not overdriving charge. So I would think it's is not an HVD (Hi Volt Disconnect) condition. An attempted Equalization could do it ! Verify the charge profile does not try to Equalize/desulphate (not applicable to any lithium chemistry).

“Verify the charge profile does not try to Equalize/desulphate (not applicable to any lithium chemistry).”

How do you verify a charge profile like you said? How is that test done?

Iaconebadger · Jul 30, 2021

stienman said:
If you're using the giandel inverter the site recommends, its manual states:

There is no "PL" code, so if your inverter is showing that then you'll need to email their support line.

I agree with everyone else, your batteries have probably gone into protection mode. The battery manual states that disconnecting the batteries for 30 minutes should work to reset them. If that doesn't work, then charging them, either by putting them in parallel with another known good and working battery, or using a charger, will reset the internal protection:

https://diysolarforum.com/attachments/ampere-time-12v200ahplus-200abms-product-manual-pdf.33681/

Once resolved, you need to take a hard look at why the protection kicked in. If the batteries need to be charged, then you must have left a load on and they went into protection mode once the voltage got low enough. If the batteries are fully charged then you may want to look at your solar charge controller and verify it isn't putting too high a charging voltage on the batteries. Other problems are certainly possible, but those two are the most common.

So my batteries are disconnected from any load and are also disconnected from being in series ( two individual 12 volt batteries). They both read 12.94 volts, is that a fully charged battery? Enough to not need my charger (bench top dc power supply)

Iaconebadger · Jul 30, 2021

stienman said:
If you're using the giandel inverter the site recommends, its manual states:

There is no "PL" code, so if your inverter is showing that then you'll need to email their support line.

I agree with everyone else, your batteries have probably gone into protection mode. The battery manual states that disconnecting the batteries for 30 minutes should work to reset them. If that doesn't work, then charging them, either by putting them in parallel with another known good and working battery, or using a charger, will reset the internal protection:

https://diysolarforum.com/attachments/ampere-time-12v200ahplus-200abms-product-manual-pdf.33681/

Once resolved, you need to take a hard look at why the protection kicked in. If the batteries need to be charged, then you must have left a load on and they went into protection mode once the voltage got low enough. If the batteries are fully charged then you may want to look at your solar charge controller and verify it isn't putting too high a charging voltage on the batteries. Other problems are certainly possible, but those two are the most common.

My solar panels are are two 12 volt 200 watt rich solar panels connected in series so I get the 24 volts needed for my system. Would that affect anything?
The system went into protection mode as it was getting dark out. I can’t imagine I was getting much power at the time of this happening

Iaconebadger · Jul 30, 2021

Iaconebadger said:
Thank you Mike for your help. I am currently at work but will be messaging you as I go through this I really appreciate your step-by-step guidance here and I will give you more details when I have time.

mikefitz · Jul 30, 2021

Iaconebadger said:
They both read 12.94 volts, is that a fully charged battery?

That's around 40% charge, good news , the batteries are ok. Will need a charge soon but not urgent.
Its possible they recovered somewhat after a BMS disconnect. I an not too happy about the connections to the breakers and perhaps the quality of the breakers themselves.
Ideally each circuit from the battery positive should have its own suitable value fuse or breaker to protect the cable and what ever is on the end of the cable.
There is a blue cable from the 300A breaker, I guess that connects to a DC to DC converter for 12v system feed?

Its possible that something in this circuit, the converter itself, or something it feed,s pulled current from the batteries.

Its possible that there was a load on the inverter that drained the batteries.

Its also possible the victron bmv 712 has been giving incorrect reports on battery condition and the battery has been taken to low. Its necessary to custom set the BMV712 for the system. Using the default values causes an early sync to 100%.

Its not too clear what happened, assuming the 300A breaker did not trip, then the BMS must have turned off the battery. Since the recovered battery voltage suggests low volts rather than high volts and the voltage is not that low, perhaps there was an over current fault. Normally the BMS will cut the battery power before a fuse or breaker reacts.

I suggest you put the system back together, make up the series battery connection and check the volts, then add the circuits to the battery one at a time. Its a bit difficult with all the connections on the one terminal of the 300A breaker. This is a situation where separate fuses/breakers for each circuit would have been an advantage.

My money in on the blue cable having some kind of fault at the end of it.

Mike

Iaconebadger · Jul 30, 2021

mikefitz said:
That's around 40% charge, good news , the batteries are ok. Will need a charge soon but not urgent.
Its possible they recovered somewhat after a BMS disconnect. I an not too happy about the connections to the breakers and perhaps the quality of the breakers themselves.
Ideally each circuit from the battery positive should have its own suitable value fuse or breaker to protect the cable and what ever is on the end of the cable.
There is a blue cable from the 300A breaker, I guess that connects to a DC to DC converter for 12v system feed?

Its possible that something in this circuit, the converter itself, or something it feed,s pulled current from the batteries.

Its possible that there was a load on the inverter that drained the batteries.

Its also possible the victron bmv 712 has been giving incorrect reports on battery condition and the battery has been taken to low. Its necessary to custom set the BMV712 for the system. Using the default values causes an early sync to 100%.

Its not too clear what happened, assuming the 300A breaker did not trip, then the BMS must have turned off the battery. Since the recovered battery voltage suggests low volts rather than high volts and the voltage is not that low, perhaps there was an over current fault. Normally the BMS will cut the battery power before a fuse or breaker reacts.

I suggest you put the system back together, make up the series battery connection and check the volts, then add the circuits to the battery one at a time. Its a bit difficult with all the connections on the one terminal of the 300A breaker. This is a situation where separate fuses/breakers for each circuit would have been an advantage.

My money in on the blue cable havinv some kind of fault at the end of it.

Mike

Mike, you are the man

mikefitz said:
That's around 40% charge, good news , the batteries are ok. Will need a charge soon but not urgent.
Its possible they recovered somewhat after a BMS disconnect. I an not too happy about the connections to the breakers and perhaps the quality of the breakers themselves.
Ideally each circuit from the battery positive should have its own suitable value fuse or breaker to protect the cable and what ever is on the end of the cable.
There is a blue cable from the 300A breaker, I guess that connects to a DC to DC converter for 12v system feed?

Its possible that something in this circuit, the converter itself, or something it feed,s pulled current from the batteries.

Its possible that there was a load on the inverter that drained the batteries.

Its also possible the victron bmv 712 has been giving incorrect reports on battery condition and the battery has been taken to low. Its necessary to custom set the BMV712 for the system. Using the default values causes an early sync to 100%.

Its not too clear what happened, assuming the 300A breaker did not trip, then the BMS must have turned off the battery. Since the recovered battery voltage suggests low volts rather than high volts and the voltage is not that low, perhaps there was an over current fault. Normally the BMS will cut the battery power before a fuse or breaker reacts.

I suggest you put the system back together, make up the series battery connection and check the volts, then add the circuits to the battery one at a time. Its a bit difficult with all the connections on the one terminal of the 300A breaker. This is a situation where separate fuses/breakers for each circuit would have been an advantage.

My money in on the blue cable having some kind of fault at the end of it.

Mike

Iaconebadger · Jul 30, 2021

So I put the series connection back together, I waited approximately 30 minutes(It may have been a few minutes before or after the 30 minute mark) but i read the voltage after they were series connected again, it was reading 18.9. I thought maybe I was too early and it didn’t reset properly so I I disconnected once again. After disconnecting I tested the battery’s individually for volts and one read 12.9 and the other was 4.5.

I’m going to buy a battery charger, the ip65 by victron unless you have a better recommendation. My dc power supply would take too long. Also, can I put these batteries in parallel and charge them like that so I only have to wait for one charge.

you are exactly right on everything you saw in my system, very good and I appreciate your critique. I want to improve this ASAP. What would you do. I do have a 300 amp windy nation anl fuse as extra, is that a better choice? Should I use both? On that one 300 amp circuit breaker I have my charge controller, 3000 watt inverter, and 12vto24v converter (little blue 10awg wire). My 12 volt fuse panel has 5 circuits so far. Only one is on a 10 amp fuse the rest are all 5 or 7.5 amp fuses. I’m assuming the ac side is separate or part of the inverter so the 300 amp is correct?
What fuses or breaker would you recommend for each of those components I listed above.

JoeHam · Jul 30, 2021

Iaconebadger said:
My solar panels are are two 12 volt 200 watt rich solar panels connected in series so I get the 24 volts needed for my system. Would that affect anything?

Post the specs on your panels please.

Victron typically wants to see 5 volts over battery voltage so your panels should be capable of generating almost 34v most days to be effective.

mikefitz · Jul 30, 2021

Iaconebadger said:
After disconnecting I tested the battery’s individually for volts and one read 12.9 and the other was 4.5.

That's not so good.
I suggest you try to charge each individually with a 12v charging system, the Vicron could be reconfigured as a 12v solar charger, and attempt to charge both batteries. There may be a problem with the low reading battery.
If possible charge and test each battery on its own. If the batteries recover and hold a full charge at over 13.5 volts, reconfigure the system as a 24 volt system. Before connecting in series ideally the batteries should be at the same state of charge and voltage.

Mike

Please help!!! Big system error!

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