diy solar

diy solar

The vaccinated are more likely to catch Covid

Status
Not open for further replies.
Bob B said:
We don't want to go back to being "over moderated."
Click to expand...
Was this an issue at some point on this forum?

In either case, at this point, I'm just posing it as a question to consider.
Particularly as it feels the thread is slowly taking on a less and less respectful/more argumentative tone (this doesn't apply to everyone, but enough people that its degrading the discourse). Mutual respect and a friendly community spirit on this forum are things I care about and feel protective of (beyond just my role as a moderator here). Every other forum I am a member of where people start debating what is and isn't true about Covid, Vaccines, the Gov't, etc, it always inevitably degrades into bickering and disrespect, that has ripple effects beyond just that particular thread.

I'm not currently weighing in on whether its an acceptable topic, just advocating that everyone participating, reflect on their purpose for posting, their tone, what the negative and positive impact their comment may have. More good faith discussion less debating, more listening less telling, and more humility and recognition that while we are all entitled to our opinions, almost none of us are qualified/informed enough to be as confident as we probably feel in our own understanding/opinion.

Probably I am acutely sensitive to this at the moment, since having left for ~6 mo. and came back, my impression is that there has been a small but noticeable degradation in the tone and closeness of the community (part of this is probably an inevitability of a growing forum).

To those who want to, carry on, just be civil, and approach with openness and humility.
 
Last edited:
Dzl said:
Was this an issue at some point on this forum?

In either case, at this point, I'm just posing it as a point to ponder. Particularly as it feels the thread is slowly taking on a less and less respectful/more argumentative tone (this doesn't apply to everyone, but enough people that its degrading the discourse). Mutual respect and a friendly community spirit on this forum are things I care about and feel protective of (beyond just my role as a moderator here). Every other forum I am a member of where people start debating what is and isn't true about Covid, Vaccines, the Gov't, etc, it always inevitably degrades into bickering and disrespect, that has ripple effects beyond just that particular thread.

I'm not currently weighing in on whether its an acceptable topic, just advocating that everyone participating, reflect on their purpose for posting, their tone, what the negative and positive impact their comment may have. More good faith discussion less debating, more listening less telling, and more humility and recognition that while we are all entitled to our opinions, almost none of us are qualified/informed enough to be as confident as we probably feel in our own understanding/opinion.

Probably I am acutely sensitive to this at the moment, since having left for ~6 mo. and came back, my impression is that there has been a noticeable degradation in the tone and closeness of the community (part of this is probably an inevitability of a growing forum).

To those who want to, carry on, just be civil, and approach with openness and humility.
Click to expand...

I think I'm one of the posters who are guilty of being.. ahem.. less than friendly with certain subjects. And for that, I apologize and will attempt to be less confrontational.

In my older age, I am finding that I have less patience for stupid.. less patience for people making snake oil claims, and less patience for the utterly idiotic things people push.
I'm also finding that I seem to care more about others than I did in my younger years. Having my own child, seeing kids harmed by others has an emotional effect on me now.. and seeing vulnerable folks being tricked and prayed on gets me fired up.
I think the technical term for this is "Grumpy old man".

One other consideration.. certain segments of our population view being nice as a weakness to be taken advantage of, and its a growing segment. Their mode of operation is a sort of "best defense is a good offense", and being nice will just get you stepped on.
 
MurphyGuy said:
One other consideration.. certain segments of our population view being nice as a weakness to be taken advantage of, and its a growing segment. Their mode of operation is a sort of "best defense is a good offense", and being nice will just get you stepped on.
Click to expand...
I go with Roosevelt on this one. "Talk softly and carry a big stick"
 
MurphyGuy said:
I think I'm one of the posters who are guilty of being.. ahem.. less than friendly with certain subjects. And for that, I apologize and will attempt to be less confrontational.

In my older age, I am finding that I have less patience for stupid.. less patience fo
Click to expand...

Here you go again, just stop it!
 
Dzl said:
Was this an issue at some point on this forum?

In either case, at this point, I'm just posing it as a question to consider.
Particularly as it feels the thread is slowly taking on a less and less respectful/more argumentative tone (this doesn't apply to everyone, but enough people that its degrading the discourse). Mutual respect and a friendly community spirit on this forum are things I care about and feel protective of (beyond just my role as a moderator here). Every other forum I am a member of where people start debating what is and isn't true about Covid, Vaccines, the Gov't, etc, it always inevitably degrades into bickering and disrespect, that has ripple effects beyond just that particular thread.

I'm not currently weighing in on whether its an acceptable topic, just advocating that everyone participating, reflect on their purpose for posting, their tone, what the negative and positive impact their comment may have. More good faith discussion less debating, more listening less telling, and more humility and recognition that while we are all entitled to our opinions, almost none of us are qualified/informed enough to be as confident as we probably feel in our own understanding/opinion.

Probably I am acutely sensitive to this at the moment, since having left for ~6 mo. and came back, my impression is that there has been a small but noticeable degradation in the tone and closeness of the community (part of this is probably an inevitability of a growing forum).

To those who want to, carry on, just be civil, and approach with openness and humility.
Click to expand...

Sorry for the late response ..... been out for the evening.

I think instead of punishing those who want to have a reasonable discussion by killing the thread .... consider punishing the one who goes from thread to thread spewing hate comments .... even as he pretends to apologize.
Same person who caused the other thread to have to be shut down.
 
MurphyGuy said:
had covid and recovered, then you're probably fine.. but until you had it and recovered, you had no information to suggest you wouldn't die and/or clog the hospital up. So basically, its like you jumped out of an airplane, and only after you started falling did you discover you had a parachute...
That isn't wise...
Click to expand...
The post quoted started with the words, “Just facts” but you don’t reference any facts at all, just opinions.
And no logic.

Example: jumping out of an airplane with no knowledge of wearing of a parachute has a guaranteed outcome- except for the miraculous and untenable discovery of a parachute. That is on one hand illogical as any argument might be. On the other hand, anyone having barely reasonably good health has nearly zero chance of dying from Covid which negates the argument or metaphor. The FACTS are that most- over 98.x% - do not experience critical disease after contracting covid.

If you are that concerned with covid take whatever effective or superstitious measures you deem sufficient for your comfort level. Whether or not others think you are silly or wise is irrelevant.

But you shouldn’t expect or demand that others adopt your point of view. Arguing for your point of view with words like ‘stupidity’ in essence is a superiority exertion aka class judgement that in essence communicates a view that others are inferior. It’s like invoking the N word; is it the word itself that’s a problem? Or the attitude(s) behind it?
 
Will there be more deaths in NYC from city workers being kept out of work for refusing vaccine or from covid this month?
 
This guy is a bit dry but presents straight up facts. It would have been valuable if the same break down that was done for the "fully vaccinated" was also presented for the rest of the classifications as well. That would have provided a more complete picture.

 
12VoltInstalls said:
The post quoted started with the words, “Just facts” but you don’t reference any facts at all, just opinions.
And no logic.

Example: jumping out of an airplane with no knowledge of wearing of a parachute has a guaranteed outcome- except for the miraculous and untenable discovery of a parachute. That is on one hand illogical as any argument might be. On the other hand, anyone having barely reasonably good health has nearly zero chance of dying from Covid which negates the argument or metaphor. The FACTS are that most- over 98.x% - do not experience critical disease after contracting covid.

If you are that concerned with covid take whatever effective or superstitious measures you deem sufficient for your comfort level. Whether or not others think you are silly or wise is irrelevant.

But you shouldn’t expect or demand that others adopt your point of view. Arguing for your point of view with words like ‘stupidity’ in essence is a superiority exertion aka class judgement that in essence communicates a view that others are inferior. It’s like invoking the N word; is it the word itself that’s a problem? Or the attitude(s) behind it?
Click to expand...

Very good. Now a simple question.

Would you drive your car or fly if you had a 2% chance of ending up in the hospital or dead?
 
Hedges said:
It appears properly worn N95 mask is quite effective.
Click to expand...
Does "properly worn" mean you remove it in very controlled way (and dispose of it that way) and put it on the same and only wear it once? Most likely.

The cheap loose fitting mask everyone wears over and over and put on/remove casually probably (real world) created as many problems as they solved (if any). The only "plus" from them probably was the reminder to social distance.

I'm sure a good many people made a lot of money (and control) off those mask though.
 
MurphyGuy said:
Would you drive your car or fly if you had a 2% chance of ending up in the hospital or dead?
Click to expand...

Shale MacGregor said:
You have a 1% chance of dying in a car crash, so, yeah, I'd say if you rounded it up to 1.3% or whatever, most would risk it.
Click to expand...


Odds of dying in a car crash in 2019: 1 in 107

usalaw.com

What Are The Odds Of Dying In A Car Crash in Florida?

Did you know that the odds of dying in a car crash are not the same for everyone? According to the National Safety Council, these odds vary based on where you live, when you travel, and which kind of vehicle you drive. Learn more here.
usalaw.com usalaw.com


90% of americans wear seatbelts.
Half the car crash fatalities weren't wearing seatbelts



We who wear seat belts enjoy a 9x reduction in likelihood of dying in a car crash.
However, that still leaves us with ~ 1 in 200 odds of dying in a car crash, while the unbelted have about 1 in 20 odds.


They tell us flying (commercial) is safer than driving.
That is twisted statistics.
Flying is 10x safer per mile, but no safer per hour.
And that is for the average person (including 10% unbelted who make up half of car crash deaths.)
On a per-hour basis, driving while belted is half the risk of commercial air travel.
 
NwCali said:
Does "properly worn" mean you remove it in very controlled way (and dispose of it that way) and put it on the same and only wear it once? Most likely.

The cheap loose fitting mask everyone wears over and over and put on/remove casually probably (real world) created as many problems as they solved (if any). The only "plus" from them probably was the reminder to social distance.

I'm sure a good many people made a lot of money (and control) off those mask though.
Click to expand...

If we were dealing with something more contagious like Ebola, more precautions would be needed.
Mainly I want it to catch droplets so I don't inhale them.
I do reuse the mask.
If its fibers were coated in silver, copper, or some other substance known to kill the virus, that would be better. But development requires testing and FDA approval so we have masks without such sterilizing properties.
(I noticed a placemat sticker in an airplane featured it had antimicrobial properties. Fine print: This is to protect our advertisement printing, not your health.)

I mostly pound the keys, so don't usually work up enough of a sweat for the mask to be stifling. But sometimes I exert myself a little and need to get fresh air.
A mask with exhalation valve (through minimal filter so not in violation of filtration requirement) would help.
More surface area so less restriction of airflow would help too.

It seems to me greatest chance for exposure is when breathing air shared by many people, crowded spaces. Office work, we are around fewer. Mandates are rather sweeping. In the absence of requirements otherwise, we can knock our odds of infection down considerably by protecting ourselves in higher exposure situations.
 
MurphyGuy said:
Very good. Now a simple question.

Would you drive your car or fly if you had a 2% chance of ending up in the hospital or dead?
Click to expand...
The point that people are trying to get across to you that you seem to be resisting acknowledging is that that 2% you are referring to are part of a subset of the population that have an incredibly high chance of ending up in the hospital or dead.

If:
  1. 50% of the population eats well, gets exercise, manages stress and is actually healthy (not, not sick yet) and has a 0% chance of severe outcome.
  2. Then the other 50% of the population is presenting with co-morbidities and ill health and have a 4% chance of severe outcome.
Then:
  • Group 1 does not have to do anything at all. They live their life and have in all practical terms 0 to worry about.
  • Group 2 has some issues. They have demonstrated an unwillingness to take responsibility for themselves and as such they now find themselves in the situation similar to the parable about the ant and the grasshopper. They lived the "good life". They failed to do the work and experience the minor discomfort of looking after themselves or exercising the little self control to deny themselves the garbage that makes them feel good in the moment. Now, because they are afraid, they are shrieking for anyone who will listen to come and keep them safe and protect them.
You are averaging the 2 groups together and wanting to apply the same conditions to both. You are treating the group instead of the individual. This is communism.

This is one of those give a man a fish or teach them to fish moments. I will share any resource with anyone willing to listen and make a change in their lives, but they have to do the work. I will not take one step in the direction of protecting them if it is at my expense.

There are 2 basic ways of being safe. The first one is to build a wall/bubble around you and yours. The second is to be prepared and strong. I have chosen to be prepared and strong and I have protected my family only to the extent that they required at that point in time. As they grew and became more competent, I reduced the protection I provided and ensured they were strong so that they could look after themselves when I am not around.

This cultural shift of providing protection instead of teaching competence so an individual can develop strength has resulted in the weak dependent society that is now crying out in fear because they are not being looked after. The wall that the supposedly strong built around them was breached and the aggressor has entered the safe space and is feasting on the pathetic weak masses.

If instead they had built a wall but also trained the people protected by the wall to be strong and competent, a breach in the wall is far less significant. Society chose to be weak instead.

Edit in bold
 
Last edited:
Hedges said:
Odds of dying in a car crash in 2019: 1 in 107

usalaw.com

What Are The Odds Of Dying In A Car Crash in Florida?

Did you know that the odds of dying in a car crash are not the same for everyone? According to the National Safety Council, these odds vary based on where you live, when you travel, and which kind of vehicle you drive. Learn more here.
usalaw.com usalaw.com


90% of americans wear seatbelts.
Half the car crash fatalities weren't wearing seatbelts



We who wear seat belts enjoy a 9x reduction in likelihood of dying in a car crash.
However, that still leaves us with ~ 1 in 200 odds of dying in a car crash, while the unbelted have about 1 in 20 odds.


They tell us flying (commercial) is safer than driving.
That is twisted statistics.
Flying is 10x safer per mile, but no safer per hour.
And that is for the average person (including 10% unbelted who make up half of car crash deaths.)
On a per-hour basis, driving while belted is half the risk of commercial air travel.
Click to expand...
Facts dont lie and I am going to make 2 comparisons.

First comparison would be wearing a seatbelt to being vaccinated.

Second comparison is wearing a seatbelt to being healthy.

Difference being that being healthy protects you against not only this one but the next pandemic. Relying on vaccinations leaves you vulnerable to what ever comes next and reliant on others for safety and protection.
 
noenegdod said:
The point that people are trying to get across to you that you seem to be resisting acknowledging is that that 2% you are referring to are part of a subset of the population that have an incredibly high chance of ending up in the hospital or dead.

If:
  1. 50% of the population eats well, gets exercise, manages stress and is actually healthy (not, not sick yet) and has a 0% chance of severe outcome.
  2. Then the other 50% of the population is presenting with co-morbidities and ill health and have a 4% chance of severe outcome.
Then:
  • Group 1 does not have to do anything at all. They live their life and have in all practical terms 0 to worry about.
  • Group 2 has some issues. They have demonstrated an unwillingness to take responsibility for themselves and as such they now find themselves in the situation similar to the parable about the ant and the grasshopper. They lived the "good life". They failed to do the work and experience the minor discomfort of looking after themselves or exercising the little self control to deny themselves the garbage that makes them feel good in the moment. Now, because they are afraid, they are shrieking for anyone who will listen to come and keep them safe and protect them.
This is one of those give a man a fish or teach them to fish moments. I will share any resource with anyone willing to listen and make a change in their lives, but they have to do the work. I will not take one step in the direction of protecting them if it is at my expense.

There are 2 basic ways of being safe. The first one is to build a wall/bubble around you and yours. The second is to be prepared and strong. I have chosen to be prepared and strong and I have protected my family only to the extent that they required at that point in time. As they grew and became more competent, I reduced the protection I provided and ensured they were strong so that they could look after themselves when I am not around.

This cultural shift of providing protection instead of teaching competence so an individual can develop strength has resulted in the weak dependent society that is now crying out in fear because they are not being looked after. The wall that the supposedly strong built around them was breached and the aggressor has entered the safe space and is feasting on the pathetic weak masses.

If instead they had built a wall but also trained the people protected by the wall to be strong and competent, a breach in the wall is far less significant. Society chose to be weak instead.
Click to expand...

Wow.. It is profoundly disturbing that someone thinks like that... To hell with Group 2, its their own fault eh? Old people, someone with cancer, someone born with medical issues, etc.. Do you have parents or grandparents who are old? Let them die eh?

This is why I'm a prepper.. the insight into the disturbing way people rationalize things is alarming.
 
MurphyGuy said:
Wow.. It is profoundly disturbing that someone thinks like that... To hell with Group 2, its their own fault eh? Old people, someone with cancer, someone born with medical issues, etc.. Do you have parents or grandparents who are old? Let them die eh?

This is why I'm a prepper.. the insight into the disturbing way people rationalize things is alarming.
Click to expand...
This is irrational. To a large extent, yes, it is their own fault and it is up to them to dig themselves out of the hole. I NEVER SAID TO HELL WITH GROUP 2. Quite to the contrary, I said I would help them with resources. But, they have to get off their lazy a$$ and do the work. I am not lifting a finger to help anyone that wont help themselves.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

MurphyGuy
Gasoline cars 60 TIMES more likely to catch fire.
2 3
Replies
40
Views
1K
Checkthisout
C
A
The spooks are about to take over the internet
Replies
5
Views
109
aenyc
A
J
How likely would I be to smoke a eg4 Mppt -48 100 charge controller if the total isc is one amp more than the max rating on the data sheet?
Replies
16
Views
608
Joe_
J
Rednecktek
The "Pimp My Pop-Up" thread! Now with more welds! (Warning! Photo heavy!)
2 3 4
Replies
66
Views
4K
wme
W
M
Extracting Energy from the moon
Replies
12
Views
381
Dr Do2much
D
Back
Top