Looking for inverter with UL listed stamp
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Bud Martin
Solar Wizard
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I do not know who actually has actual UL compliance certificate (not the same as claiming as to comply to such UL standard) that is actually tested by UL.
The product should have Exxxxxxxx so can look up the certificate if they have gone through testing which is very very expensive and have to pay yearly fee to UL to keep it up to date, so most small companies will not do it..
For example:
productiq.ulprospector.com
I use to have access to UL as the manufacturer but since I am retired from the electronic company I no longer have an account with Ul any more.
The product should have Exxxxxxxx so can look up the certificate if they have gone through testing which is very very expensive and have to pay yearly fee to UL to keep it up to date, so most small companies will not do it..
For example:
Search for APC on Product iQ | UL Solutions
productiq.ulprospector.com
I use to have access to UL as the manufacturer but since I am retired from the electronic company I no longer have an account with Ul any more.
Midnight, Magnum Energy, Schneider Electric, Trace, Zantrex, Exeltech.....basically everything made in the USA is “listed to UL number XXXX”
made in china ....tested (by whom and to what standard)
National Electrical Code REQUIRES LISTING by a NRTL (National Reliability Testing Laboratory) as approved by U.S. O.S.H.A. (Occupational Safety and Hazards Agency) to U.L. 1741
For example my Midnight Classic 150 controller is listed by ETL to U.L. 1741
same as my Magna-Sine inverter listed by ETL to U.L. 1741
ETL (Electrical Testing Laboratories) is an NRTL
Made in China, tested to conform to UL by who, Chin’s test shop Not legal in the USA, violation of the code and gives your insurance carrier an easy out of paying damages caused by your “ non-listed appliance”
No China test shop is listed by.......... NRTL but the big european ones all are listed by the U.S. NRTL......T.U.V. etc...
U.S. code is very clear..........”Listed by a NRTL to U.L. Standards”
Testing to UL is admitting a sham.....we did not get the listing.....just trying to bull#### you
Use non certified products and you are violating the building code, and revoking your insurance policy, putting you and your family at risk.
made in china ....tested (by whom and to what standard)
National Electrical Code REQUIRES LISTING by a NRTL (National Reliability Testing Laboratory) as approved by U.S. O.S.H.A. (Occupational Safety and Hazards Agency) to U.L. 1741
For example my Midnight Classic 150 controller is listed by ETL to U.L. 1741
same as my Magna-Sine inverter listed by ETL to U.L. 1741
ETL (Electrical Testing Laboratories) is an NRTL
Made in China, tested to conform to UL by who, Chin’s test shop Not legal in the USA, violation of the code and gives your insurance carrier an easy out of paying damages caused by your “ non-listed appliance”
No China test shop is listed by.......... NRTL but the big european ones all are listed by the U.S. NRTL......T.U.V. etc...
U.S. code is very clear..........”Listed by a NRTL to U.L. Standards”
Testing to UL is admitting a sham.....we did not get the listing.....just trying to bull#### you
Use non certified products and you are violating the building code, and revoking your insurance policy, putting you and your family at risk.
Bud Martin
Solar Wizard
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2020
- Messages
- 4,843
The company I retired from I had the products tested by ETL, UL, CSA, and TUV per UL standards, but UL is always too busy and takes too long so we use other testing labs as well, we have certificates for each products that we can provide to the customer as requested. We spend over million dollars every year just for safety compliance, we also lots of money for FCC also.
UL and TUV also have testing labs in China too.
UL and TUV also have testing labs in China too.
Bud Martin
Solar Wizard
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2020
- Messages
- 4,843
Yep, throw away society, very sad. Lots of broken electronics can easily be repaired but the manufacturers make it harder for independent repair shop to get any information and parts. I was a volunteer for 25 years at electronics recycle place, I fix TV's, monitors, computers,and many electronics so they can be donated and reused again.
I'm just going by what my county ordinance requires... says must be UL Listed. Many say ETL approved conforms to UL. Unsure if that qualifies because the UL stamp isn't there.
Throwing me off is sometimes the stamp is. Trying to check into it.
Cost is an issue also. If I get a savvy code inspector, they will know I need UL 1741 not UL 458 (mobile like rv, boats etc).
Anyway you're right about the China made not being UL Listed. They try to get you with the wording like ... conforms to UL. That's not ok. I was told the only way was to have the UL stamp.
AIMS has some UL I've looking at but dog on 1741 is rare and prices are going up.
I bought a couple cheapo Chiba mades to get by but when I ask for inspection, gotta be prepared. Real hair-puller when budget is tight.
I will did did definitely check out those you listed. Gotta make sure has the stamp so aarggh.
Oh forgot: told getting UL Listed cost companies a lot more so they pass that cost to consumer. Probably how China made ones are so cheap. And those cheapos are stand-alone which basically means runs off batteries... solar panels are just for charging the batteries.
That sux ya know. Need get power from panels in daytime, keeping batteries charged and run off batteries at night.
This is tough one for me. Btw did find UL cabling and panels at decent price.
That sux ya know. Need get power from panels in daytime, keeping batteries charged and run off batteries at night.
This is tough one for me. Btw did find UL cabling and panels at decent price.
The requirement is........”Listed by a NTRL to UL 1741”
U.L. sets the standard but U.S. law forbids only one company to do the testing......Its anticompetitive behavior, forbidden by the U.S. Supreme Court.
Underwriters Laboritory is a NRTL but they are not the only NRTL, there are many , each having their only speciality.
What is a ‘NRTL”............National Reliability Testing Laboratory
Who designates NRTL’s............The United States OSHA.......Occupational Safety Hazards Agency
To be accepted as a NRTL you must be certified by OSHA’s NRTL program as competent in the feild.
One of the best known NRTL’s in the feild of electronics is ETL.......Electronic Testing Laboratory
Any registered NRTL can list products as “complying with a certain U.L. listing catagory”
It does not “have to be U.L. listed” ANY NRTL can “list a product as tested to U.L. Standard”
(within their NRTL certification catagory)
FOR INSTANCE........Midnignt Solar used ETL to list my Midnight Classic to U.L. 1741
Magnum Energy used ETL to list my MagnaSine Inverter/charger to U.L. 1741
The wording in the advertisement is “Listed by ETL to U.L. 1741”
ANY certification agency listed by OSHA’s NRTL program can certify any product (within their speciality) as conforming to U.L.
European T.U.V. is a U.S. OSHA NRTL and can certify european products to U.L. standards
To sum it up.......It does not have to be “listed by U.L.” it must be listed by any NRTL to the U.L. standard
The ETL seal of approval and the T.U.V. seal of approval is just as valid as the U.L. seal
What is not legal is “Tested to U.L.”.......by whom....freddys tinker and repair.....john‘s barber shop.....barbie’s manicure
no you “MUST BE“ a NRTL as defined by U.S. OSHA and in the OSHA NRTL program
All those that make the statement “ Tested to U.L. XXXX” are bullshitting you” They are not “LISTED” they didn’t pass the muster and are not legal
That includes SunSync and DEYE..........NOT LISTED TO U.L. 1741 and “NOT LEGAL” in the U.S.A.
testing was done by agency “NOT CERTIFIED by U.S. OSHA’s NRTL program
Your homeowners insurance very clearly states your installation “must be code compliant”
Code compliance REQUIRES .......”LISTING...to U.L. XXXX” (BY AN NRTL)
U.L. sets the standard but U.S. law forbids only one company to do the testing......Its anticompetitive behavior, forbidden by the U.S. Supreme Court.
Underwriters Laboritory is a NRTL but they are not the only NRTL, there are many , each having their only speciality.
What is a ‘NRTL”............National Reliability Testing Laboratory
Who designates NRTL’s............The United States OSHA.......Occupational Safety Hazards Agency
To be accepted as a NRTL you must be certified by OSHA’s NRTL program as competent in the feild.
One of the best known NRTL’s in the feild of electronics is ETL.......Electronic Testing Laboratory
Any registered NRTL can list products as “complying with a certain U.L. listing catagory”
It does not “have to be U.L. listed” ANY NRTL can “list a product as tested to U.L. Standard”
(within their NRTL certification catagory)
FOR INSTANCE........Midnignt Solar used ETL to list my Midnight Classic to U.L. 1741
Magnum Energy used ETL to list my MagnaSine Inverter/charger to U.L. 1741
The wording in the advertisement is “Listed by ETL to U.L. 1741”
ANY certification agency listed by OSHA’s NRTL program can certify any product (within their speciality) as conforming to U.L.
European T.U.V. is a U.S. OSHA NRTL and can certify european products to U.L. standards
To sum it up.......It does not have to be “listed by U.L.” it must be listed by any NRTL to the U.L. standard
The ETL seal of approval and the T.U.V. seal of approval is just as valid as the U.L. seal
What is not legal is “Tested to U.L.”.......by whom....freddys tinker and repair.....john‘s barber shop.....barbie’s manicure
no you “MUST BE“ a NRTL as defined by U.S. OSHA and in the OSHA NRTL program
All those that make the statement “ Tested to U.L. XXXX” are bullshitting you” They are not “LISTED” they didn’t pass the muster and are not legal
That includes SunSync and DEYE..........NOT LISTED TO U.L. 1741 and “NOT LEGAL” in the U.S.A.
testing was done by agency “NOT CERTIFIED by U.S. OSHA’s NRTL program
Your homeowners insurance very clearly states your installation “must be code compliant”
Code compliance REQUIRES .......”LISTING...to U.L. XXXX” (BY AN NRTL)
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Seriously Im so with you. Ive complained here many times that my county is whacko concerning anything solar. You would think come on follow OSHA guidelines, right.
Not into conspiracies yet sonething smells bad when a beach town, where residents pay a base fee monthly, come once a year. Many many would go solar to avoid that insanity if our Code wasn't insane. It's so aggravating to ask 'do you have the specific UL stamp'.
Anyway, I'm determined to comply with the idiots but will also make sure to comply with what you've said. I do not want crap thrown at me down the road... had that happen before in 2016.
Thank you for the input and taking the time to explain. My freaking house burned down and Code began raising cane when I submitted solar plans during rebuild.
Not into conspiracies yet sonething smells bad when a beach town, where residents pay a base fee monthly, come once a year. Many many would go solar to avoid that insanity if our Code wasn't insane. It's so aggravating to ask 'do you have the specific UL stamp'.
Anyway, I'm determined to comply with the idiots but will also make sure to comply with what you've said. I do not want crap thrown at me down the road... had that happen before in 2016.
Thank you for the input and taking the time to explain. My freaking house burned down and Code began raising cane when I submitted solar plans during rebuild.
Also, kinda says something between the lines to me when I will be the only sole solar home in my county... largest county by land mass in NC. (Brunswick).
A lot of local folk are excited about my quest... doing this at much sacrifice and DIY cuz low budget. I'm definitely opening doors. Thanks again.
A lot of local folk are excited about my quest... doing this at much sacrifice and DIY cuz low budget. I'm definitely opening doors. Thanks again.
In California we have the PUC, a state agency, The Public Utilities Commission which maintains a database that lists all the code compliant solar panels acceptable for installation in this State. They do the search for the documents from the NRTL’s , UL, ETL, T.U.V. etc to find which ones are acceptable to the State to be used here. All building inspectors are required to access this site to verify the “code compliant” solar panels that can be used here. The inspectors are forbidden to approve installations that are not listed in the state guidelines. Our utilities also have lists of panels acceptable here, but all of them basically follow the lead of the PUC. The PUC does delist panels after a major incident that results in fire or structure loss due to the panels not passing listing guidelines. The compliance issue is not raised at every fire or loss but it is investigated and after field proof that those panels failed in a way that they should not have they are removed from the “acceptable panels list”
I have accessed this site and there are thousands of panels listed. The database does not provide the “listing number“ of the NRTL that listed the panel, or which NRTL listed that panel. They only verify that the panel is listed.
I have accessed this site and there are thousands of panels listed. The database does not provide the “listing number“ of the NRTL that listed the panel, or which NRTL listed that panel. They only verify that the panel is listed.
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