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The vaccinated are more likely to catch Covid

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BMcL said:
Israel may be the most vaccinated country in the world. The vaccines aren't working.
You shouldn't lie when it's easily checked :

View attachment 72729

www.worldometers.info

Israel COVID - Coronavirus Statistics - Worldometer

Israel Coronavirus update with statistics and graphs: total and new cases, deaths per day, mortality and recovery rates, current active cases, recoveries, trends and timeline.
www.worldometers.info www.worldometers.info
Click to expand...
Please sir. A total case number is a cumulative number since the beginning of the pandemic. It never goes down and will always be higher. You need to scroll down and look at the daily case rate. You are looking at the wrong numbers and don't understand. Instead of being so anxious to be right. Read!!!!!!!
 
time2roll said:
Sorry I forgot the emoji to indicate it was meant as a joke.
Click to expand...
I got your joke.
Actually, why doesn't your side stop the ivermectin controversy ?
Let people have access to it and show it doesn't work ?

Are you too blind to realize that's why they are blocking it ? (YES)
Hospitalizations would plummet if they allowed access.
 
Even though Time2Roll's comment was in jest. My challenge remains to the ivermectin fans. Show me: " Show me an actual randomized, double-blind study, that confirms this. Not a blog. Not a video. Not a forum comment. Show me actual studies supporting your comment just like we would do for an electrical or engineering issue. It is time you guys just put up or shut up. Defend yourself with actual studies and not anecdotal crap."
cleardot.gif
 
Dhasper said:
The CDC misc definition doesn't control drug approval but for arguments sake how would this definition " "A suspension of live (usually attenuated) or inactivated microorganisms (e.g. bacteria or viruses) or fractions thereof administered to induce immunity and prevent infectious diseases and their sequelae. " not include the mRNA vaccines? That is exactly what they do.
Click to expand...
Just to be clear, are you saying that the mRNA vaccine contains "A suspension of live (usually attenuated) or inactivated microorganisms (e.g. bacteria or viruses) or fractions"?
 
tigerwillow1 said:
Just to be clear, are you saying that the mRNA vaccine contains "A suspension of live (usually attenuated) or inactivated microorganisms (e.g. bacteria or viruses) or fractions"?
Click to expand...
The mRNA vaccine provides a snippet of the virus RNA (copied not actual) related to the spike protein found in/on the virus. This mRNA snippet is wrapped in fats and saline and by injection delivered to human cells and enters the cytoplasm, not the nucleus, of human cells. This spike protein is then made by our cells pursuant to the instructions contained in the mRNA and displayed on their surface. Our body then produces antibodies that will attack this spike protein which is part of the virus.
 
Dhasper said:
Please sir. A total case number is a cumulative number since the beginning of the pandemic. It never goes down and will always be higher. You need to scroll down and look at the daily case rate. You are looking at the wrong numbers and don't understand. Instead of being so anxious to be right. Read!!!!!!!
Click to expand...
His mistakes and errors have been pointed out many times. Instead of being honest and correcting himself he ignores his mistakes and falls over himself to respond incorrectly to someone else.
 
Dhasper said:
Even though Time2Roll's comment was in jest. My challenge remains to the ivermectin fans. Show me: " Show me an actual randomized, double-blind study, that confirms this. Not a blog. Not a video. Not a forum comment. Show me actual studies supporting your comment just like we would do for an electrical or engineering issue. It is time you guys just put up or shut up. Defend yourself with actual studies and not anecdotal crap."
cleardot.gif
Click to expand...
Just dropped in for some light reading and don't have a dog in this race, but ... https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33278625/

Here is the abstract: Ivermectin, a US Food and Drug Administration-approved anti-parasitic agent, was found to inhibit severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) replication in vitro. A randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled trial was conducted to determine the rapidity of viral clearance and safety of ivermectin among adult SARS-CoV-2 patients. The trial included 72 hospitalized patients in Dhaka, Bangladesh, who were assigned to one of three groups: oral ivermectin alone (12 mg once daily for 5 days), oral ivermectin in combination with doxycycline (12 mg ivermectin single dose and 200 mg doxycycline on day 1, followed by 100 mg every 12 h for the next 4 days), and a placebo control group. Clinical symptoms of fever, cough, and sore throat were comparable among the three groups. Virological clearance was earlier in the 5-day ivermectin treatment arm when compared to the placebo group (9.7 days vs 12.7 days; p = 0.02), but this was not the case for the ivermectin + doxycycline arm (11.5 days; p = 0.27). There were no severe adverse drug events recorded in the study. A 5-day course of ivermectin was found to be safe and effective in treating adult patients with mild COVID-19. Larger trials will be needed to confirm these preliminary findings.

There are a great number of studies being conducted with ivermectin. Most are not finished yet, but reading the preliminary results gives me hope that ivermectin may be effective.
 
If the mRNA vaccines contain live (usually attenuated) or inactivated microorganisms (e.g. bacteria or viruses) or fractions, I'm either reading fake news all over the place or can't understand some really basic stuff. For instance, https://www.vumc.org/viiii/infographics-blog/whats-my-mrna-vaccine says:

"There is only one active ingredient in these vaccines, nucleoside-modified messenger ribonucleic acid (mRNA). mRNA are genetic instructions that train your body how to make the viral proteins (spike proteins in the case of SARS-CoV-2) that are present on the virus. Since this is a foreign protein, your body responds by building an immune response in the form of antibodies that will later recognize the same spike protein on the live virus"

I admit I know little about biology-related subjects. In my ignorance, I think a foreign protein is very different from a bacteria or virus. I'll try to be open to learning otherwise.
 
So Israel is back down; now the UK is up.
My point is the vaccinated are catching Covid. This is not a situation where the unvaccinated are the problem.
The problem IMHO is we are not treating everyone early
1637275300207.png
 
Dhasper said:
Even though Time2Roll's comment was in jest. My challenge remains to the ivermectin fans. Show me: "
cleardot.gif
Click to expand...
LOL HOW ?? Your side won't allow it to be used. We have to get it ourselves and self-medicate. And it works.
If you weren't so blind with wanting to win an argument, you'd see how illogical denying it's use is.
 
Bishacuda said:
Just dropped in for some light reading and don't have a dog in this race, but ... https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33278625/

Here is the abstract: Ivermectin, a US Food and Drug Administration-approved anti-parasitic agent, was found to inhibit severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) replication in vitro. A randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled trial was conducted to determine the rapidity of viral clearance and safety of ivermectin among adult SARS-CoV-2 patients. The trial included 72 hospitalized patients in Dhaka, Bangladesh, who were assigned to one of three groups: oral ivermectin alone (12 mg once daily for 5 days), oral ivermectin in combination with doxycycline (12 mg ivermectin single dose and 200 mg doxycycline on day 1, followed by 100 mg every 12 h for the next 4 days), and a placebo control group. Clinical symptoms of fever, cough, and sore throat were comparable among the three groups. Virological clearance was earlier in the 5-day ivermectin treatment arm when compared to the placebo group (9.7 days vs 12.7 days; p = 0.02), but this was not the case for the ivermectin + doxycycline arm (11.5 days; p = 0.27). There were no severe adverse drug events recorded in the study. A 5-day course of ivermectin was found to be safe and effective in treating adult patients with mild COVID-19. Larger trials will be needed to confirm these preliminary findings.

There are a great number of studies being conducted with ivermectin. Most are not finished yet, but reading the preliminary results gives me hope that ivermectin may be effective.
Click to expand...
I am hopeful too. That would be great.
 
tigerwillow1 said:
If the mRNA vaccines contain live (usually attenuated) or inactivated microorganisms (e.g. bacteria or viruses) or fractions, I'm either reading fake news all over the place or can't understand some really basic stuff. For instance, https://www.vumc.org/viiii/infographics-blog/whats-my-mrna-vaccine says:

"There is only one active ingredient in these vaccines, nucleoside-modified messenger ribonucleic acid (mRNA). mRNA are genetic instructions that train your body how to make the viral proteins (spike proteins in the case of SARS-CoV-2) that are present on the virus. Since this is a foreign protein, your body responds by building an immune response in the form of antibodies that will later recognize the same spike protein on the live virus"

I admit I know little about biology-related subjects. In my ignorance, I think a foreign protein is very different from a bacteria or virus. I'll try to be open to learning otherwise.
Click to expand...
This is getting to the "fractional" part of the definition. In this case, instead of delivering the spike protein or an entire inactivated virus, we are delivering the RNA instructions to build the spike protein. It is "foreign" to our body because neither the RNA instructions or the resulting spike protein are common to human biology. The mRNA sneaks by the immune system (which was an extremely difficult task in developing this technology) and the resulting spike protein is considered foreign even though manufactured by our own cells. It is a more complex delivery system than simply injecting inactivated virus (as with the flu) but it achieves the same goal in a more precise way and can be manufactured much faster. I had the impression that folks were upset with the definition because they thought vaccines should be 100% effective. Your criticism is much more precise and narrow and I think goes beyond the scope of the CDC's intent in providing a simple one-sentence definition. I suspect that hundreds of pages could be dedicated to fully defining vaccine technology.
 
BMcL said:
LOL HOW ?? Your side won't allow it to be used. We have to get it ourselves and self-medicate. And it works.
Click to expand...
There are a lot of studies underway, I'm glad you and yours recovered but since the vast majority recover your anecdotal evidence isn't definitive.
 
Bishacuda said:
Just dropped in for some light reading and don't have a dog in this race, but ... https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33278625/

Here is the abstract: Ivermectin, a US Food and Drug Administration-approved anti-parasitic agent, was found to inhibit severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) replication in vitro. A randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled trial was conducted to determine the rapidity of viral clearance and safety of ivermectin among adult SARS-CoV-2 patients. The trial included 72 hospitalized patients in Dhaka, Bangladesh, who were assigned to one of three groups: oral ivermectin alone (12 mg once daily for 5 days), oral ivermectin in combination with doxycycline (12 mg ivermectin single dose and 200 mg doxycycline on day 1, followed by 100 mg every 12 h for the next 4 days), and a placebo control group. Clinical symptoms of fever, cough, and sore throat were comparable among the three groups. Virological clearance was earlier in the 5-day ivermectin treatment arm when compared to the placebo group (9.7 days vs 12.7 days; p = 0.02), but this was not the case for the ivermectin + doxycycline arm (11.5 days; p = 0.27). There were no severe adverse drug events recorded in the study. A 5-day course of ivermectin was found to be safe and effective in treating adult patients with mild COVID-19. Larger trials will be needed to confirm these preliminary findings.

There are a great number of studies being conducted with ivermectin. Most are not finished yet, but reading the preliminary results gives me hope that ivermectin may be effective.
Click to expand...
Finally, thank you, thank you. This study has cleared fraud review and although all desired protocols were not followed, this is one that should be placed in the basket for Ivermectin. There is nothing dramatic going on here as no one is dying and the endpoint of the study is viral clearance (they no longer measure virus in testing). So, there is a 9.7-day clearance with ivermectin vs 12.7 without. It is something. As the study itself says: "Larger trials will be needed to confirm these preliminary findings." What is confusing about the study is that when they give doxycycline (an antibiotic) with ivermectin then there appears to be no benefit to ivermectin. So this is one that generated more interest and future studies were done. Thank you. That is a start. Is it enough to say ivermectin should be used? No. Is it enough to say we should study ivermectin more? Absolutely. The other thing about these early trials is that they are taking place in Bangladesh and South America etc,. There is nothing wrong with that but we always need to remember that this is heavily wormy, parasite-prone, land. There is no doubt ivermectin is extremely effective at killing parasites. Does that influence these findings? So this study confirms the NIH statement that the results are inconclusive and we need larger-scale studies. Agree? Disagree? anyone? At least we are in the meat of it rather than blogs.
 
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Shale MacGregor said:
There are a lot of studies underway, I'm glad you and yours recovered but since the vast majority recover your anecdotal evidence isn't definitive.
Click to expand...
You don't see how illogical it is to deny access to a medicine that for all practical purposes, doesn't have side effects ?
They aren't going to grant access to it. Not until we either win back congress or the presidency.
It's 100% political.
 
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