Yes more vaccinated people are presenting. However 30% of the population are unvaccinated and the last I see the unvaccinated still make up 60% of the hospitalizations.
Simple google search. If you have a better link feel free to post it up.
The vaccinated are more likely to catch Covid
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Simple google search. If you have a better link feel free to post it up.
There are other studies underway and will be producing their findings soon. One of the major pitfalls in science today is funding. It is in the interest of the investigative body to find the conclusions desired by the people who are funding them. That is why there is so much conflicting information that has put everyone at each other's throats. It is a sad state of affairs.
Generic Prozac will likely be approved as an early treatment. Budesomide, otc, previously known as Rhinocort, also being used. FDA will not block access. These drugs will be especially helpful in poorer countries. Note that BMcl claims an FDA conspiracy but ivermectin is not an approved treatment in most of the world. By the way BMcl, Budesimide can be taken rectally which you may enjoy. Your name being BM and all.
You mean this money? The former guy that is going to save us 15% on everything?
Trump gave an agency $100 million to fight Covid. Here’s what happened.
"A federal agency that was run by a college friend of Jared Kushner and assigned $100 million to spend on fixing the Covid supply chain crunch has so far failed to invest a single dime, according to a new government watchdog report."
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/trump-gave-agency-100-million-fight-covid-s-happened-rcna5692
Yes. It is worse than ever especially since fringe (popup) medical journals can get immediate attention from the media with a lack of training in research standards and the less scrupulous will use these studies to their advantage. There are withdrawn studies with proven fraud still being discussed online. There is now a team of scientists specifically dedicated to following up on all studies and requesting underlying data. If it is not produced or has inconsistencies they notify publishers. This has been the source of some recent withdrawals. Study funding has been a longstanding issue and needs to be considered but the outright fraud going on now is a whole new ballgame.
This reminds me. BMcl is a huge fanboy of disgraced Grenada-educated, Milwaukee (now fired) doctor Pierre Kory. Well, it turns out that Jared Kushner and Pierre Kory were emailing each other to discuss national Covid policy. Kory was taking ivermectin prophylactically which he tells everyone works perfectly but both he and his daughter came down with Covid. This is true but anecdotal evidence only. See how unfair and misleading it can be BMcl?
Shale MacGregor
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There is a difference between denying access and recommending. I've said this numerous times but you can get this drug prescribed to you. You point out hospitals that don't advocate it or allow it while ignoring the fact you can still get access to it.
If anyone had the patience to actually read this thread they would see BMcl constantly shifting positions. His arguments get pounded down and then he reappears with a modified version or just repeats the same thing OVER and OVER.
Bob B
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A significant area of concern is how the vaccine interacts with the immune system .... particularly those who already have an autoimmune condition.
One area of concern that is being studied is that people who take immune suppressing drugs for their autoimmune condition ..... this is about 40 million people in the US .... the vaccine simply may not work because it doesn't get a response from the suppressed immune system.
That concern is outline here ... https://covid19.nih.gov/news-and-stories/boosting-vaccine-response-autoimmune-disease
Another area of concern is that because of the mechanism of the vaccine it may actually cause autoimmune conditions. The case for that concern is outlined here .... https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7833091/
This is just one example of why the current message .... get vaccinate or else .... get the booster or else .... doesn't necessarily fit with a large portion of the population.
It is REALLY a good idea to keep giving boosters and then more boosters or might there be serious long term effects of this strategy?
We shouldn't be acting as if the vaccine is a one size fits all solution. I have an autoimmune condition myself (I don't have to take immunosuppressant drugs) ..... I have a brother and an Aunt who do have to take immunosuppressant drugs.
Hence, the desire to find other mechanisms that may help prevent and early treat Covid.
Health officials need to stop pretending that the vaccine is a one size fits all solution and trying to force companies to fire people if they don't get in line. Thank goodness the Osha thing has been put on hold thru litigation .... I liked the quote earlier about an awakening of common sense. You don't need to be an immunologist to recognize that a lot of what is going on doesn't pass the smell test.
One area of concern that is being studied is that people who take immune suppressing drugs for their autoimmune condition ..... this is about 40 million people in the US .... the vaccine simply may not work because it doesn't get a response from the suppressed immune system.
That concern is outline here ... https://covid19.nih.gov/news-and-stories/boosting-vaccine-response-autoimmune-disease
Another area of concern is that because of the mechanism of the vaccine it may actually cause autoimmune conditions. The case for that concern is outlined here .... https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7833091/
This is just one example of why the current message .... get vaccinate or else .... get the booster or else .... doesn't necessarily fit with a large portion of the population.
It is REALLY a good idea to keep giving boosters and then more boosters or might there be serious long term effects of this strategy?
We shouldn't be acting as if the vaccine is a one size fits all solution. I have an autoimmune condition myself (I don't have to take immunosuppressant drugs) ..... I have a brother and an Aunt who do have to take immunosuppressant drugs.
Hence, the desire to find other mechanisms that may help prevent and early treat Covid.
Health officials need to stop pretending that the vaccine is a one size fits all solution and trying to force companies to fire people if they don't get in line. Thank goodness the Osha thing has been put on hold thru litigation .... I liked the quote earlier about an awakening of common sense. You don't need to be an immunologist to recognize that a lot of what is going on doesn't pass the smell test.
I know a person that stopped the suppression drugs for several weeks so the booster would work. Immune response will be tracked and soon back on the drugs. It is a two edged sward because the immune system is at a disadvantage to fight covid due to the drugs.
Of course BMcL wants us to just let these people go. I do hope new treatments are available soon. However I believe in tested proven results. Until then a booster every 6 to 24 months is the path I believe in.
I believe there are medical exemptions to the vaccine mandate depending on the actual situation. The religious exemption is just a bunch of political crybabies.
Of course BMcL wants us to just let these people go. I do hope new treatments are available soon. However I believe in tested proven results. Until then a booster every 6 to 24 months is the path I believe in.
I believe there are medical exemptions to the vaccine mandate depending on the actual situation. The religious exemption is just a bunch of political crybabies.
Shale MacGregor
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How do you get 40 million?? https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/05/210520133846.htm
Bob B
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If you read the NIH articles I linked, it was in both of them.
robby
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This thread is really unproductive and has run it's course.
I think we have all had this same argument with friends and relatives and gotten nowhere. I just don't see anybodies position changing on a forum if you cannot convince them in person.
My personal observations is that once a person is vaccinated they no longer have an issue with the Vaccine and they move over into the other camp or just don't care to argue anymore. Those who have not been Vaccinated cannot be persuaded by any type kind of prodding or dialog. The only time they change their minds is when someone who is healthier, younger and close to them dies of Covid. Sadly I have seen way to much of that.
I think we have all had this same argument with friends and relatives and gotten nowhere. I just don't see anybodies position changing on a forum if you cannot convince them in person.
My personal observations is that once a person is vaccinated they no longer have an issue with the Vaccine and they move over into the other camp or just don't care to argue anymore. Those who have not been Vaccinated cannot be persuaded by any type kind of prodding or dialog. The only time they change their minds is when someone who is healthier, younger and close to them dies of Covid. Sadly I have seen way to much of that.
There is no there-there in these articles. The prescribing literature for ALL vaccines says those with immune-related conditions should consult with their physicians. Bob tries to make the second article something scary and new but it simply ends with this recommendation. "Given the current state of the art, my view is that individuals with a dysfunctional immune response should receive the COVID-19 mRNA vaccine only if the benefits of this approach clearly outweigh any risks and after a careful evaluation case by case.' This falls in the "No duh" category. Again, this advice apply to ALL vaccines. for those that do not want an mRNA vaccine, the Johnson and Johnson is available and many more traditional vaccines are on their way.
Conceptually, your immune system exposed to a vaccine is the exact same as being exposed to the actual Covid virus (without the getting severely ill and dying part). The entire point of a vaccine is to simulate getting the virus. Vaccines do not protect you as so many comments imply. Your immune system protects you. The vaccine is gone within 72 hours.
There are immunosuppressed people and that is exactly the population that the rest of us should be getting vaccinated and wearing masks inside for.
This is right, however, misinformation should not be allowed to stand unchallenged.
I don't mind boosters but I remain hopeful that this third booster may do the trick. With new viruses, we won't know until we know however, in reading Dr peter Hotez and some immunologists they remain cautiously optimistic the third shot could do it, absent a very different variant. The rationale is that with many vaccines you need to give a number of them spaced apart. Those of us with children and pets are aware of this. The initial vaccines were not spaced very far apart so this may not have maximized the full potential of the vaccines. Just hopeful.
Bob B
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If you are referring to my post ..... I HAVE been fully vaccinated with the Moderna vaccine .... and I'm not arguing against the vaccine in general .... I am, however struggling with the idea of taking booster shots in perpetuity.
I am just trying to point out that people should be treated as individuals .... We aren't all the same. The solution for people taking immunosuppressant drugs may NEED to be different. There are people with other health concerns where this is true also.
I have seen your posts as more reasonable .... not just pot shots that try to put down another person. Sorry to see you leaving the thread.
BMcL
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Like calling someone a killer who says good things about ivermectin ?
Do you, loved ones, or family take yearly flu shots? Same difference, maybe it’s the speed that this new Covid reality washed over the earth. i just got my booster and flu shot, went on with my day no drama. Talking about immunosuppressed people like they are just now dealing with medical issues and choices like this is odd.
You make horrendous overstatements about ivermectin. You attribute simple procedural approval mechanisms and delay to worldwide conspiracy. You never cite authorities---simply blogs, youtube etc. You reassert things continuously even when disproven. You have never dug into the merits in any discussion. Your ivermectin praise is tied to vax denying and objecting to common-sense approaches like masking. You do not care about the health of others and say so openly.
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