diy solar

diy solar

Does grounding the neutral cause damage to power stations?

anonZT

New Member
Joined
Nov 21, 2021
Messages
8
I was reading that on certain household devices like a 120v natural gas furnace that the control board won’t run at all if there is no ground or if the neutral is not ground bonded (usually this happens in the panel) so this is obviously a problem for floating power stations and floating gas generators.

And yes, I understand that trying to run a gas furnace would only work using a large power station but let’s ignore that for a moment.

My first question is in a pinch during an emergency (with the big main breaker off) could you wire up a polarized 2 prong plug on the furnace leads like this diagram and just borrow the bonded neutral and ground from the panel since the junction box is already conveniently nearby the furnace or would you need to go through the hassle of using a stand alone ground rod and bond the neutral and ground to that?

My second question is I am wondering what happens to bluetti or EF type battery stations when you plug in a device where the neutral blade of the plug is bonded somewhere to a ground source, will this damage the bluetti or EF?


FurnaceDiagram11.png
 
I was reading that on certain household devices like a 120v natural gas furnace that the control board won’t run at all if there is no ground or if the neutral is not ground bonded<snip>
I'm curious to why these devices won't run.
I would want to know they why before I bodged together a workaround.
 
Maybe but I have heard some people say these plugs causes harm to inverter type floating gas generators so I'm still wondering if it would harm a floating battery station.
How do they harm the inverter generator?
 
How do they harm the inverter generator?
I have no idea but there is a lot of conflicting information, I found this comment from the switch company, they make it sound like you can connect the neutral from a floating gas inverter generator to your panel bonded neutral no problem but you can't do the same with a floating power station because for some reason bonding the neutral to any real ground source will fry it.

So if you wan't to use a floating power station (ecoflow bluetti etc.) to run a gas furnace, I'm guessing you do the following...
1. Use southwire bonding plug on the power station, (If the power station has empty plastic ground holes you would have to plug the bonding plug in a three prong power strip and then the strip to station).
2. Power the furnace only from the power station hot and neutral NOT from the panel.
I'm not sure about furnace ground though, should that still be connected to panel ground OR to power station ground?

The bonding plug would trick the furnace into thinking the neutral is grounded even though the power station itself is not.

random YT comment:
ytezcomment.png
 
I have no idea but there is a lot of conflicting information, I found this comment from the switch company, they make it sound like you can connect the neutral from a floating gas inverter generator to your panel bonded neutral no problem but you can't do the same with a floating power station because for some reason bonding the neutral to any real ground source will fry it.

So if you wan't to use a floating power station (ecoflow bluetti etc.) to run a gas furnace, I'm guessing you do the following...
1. Use southwire bonding plug on the power station, (If the power station has empty plastic ground holes you would have to plug the bonding plug in a three prong power strip and then the strip to station).
I guess that would work.
There has been a lot of talk about a bluetti solar generator that has the polarity reversed on its rv recectacle and correct on the nema 5-20 receptacles. Bonding plug will not be a good solution for that product.
Also not a good solution for a generator that already bonds neutral to ground.
2. Power the furnace only from the power station hot and neutral NOT from the panel.
I'm not sure about furnace ground though, should that still be connected to panel ground OR to power station ground?
Are you talking about the green grounding conductor that goes back to the ac distribution panel or some other use of the word ground?
The bonding plug would trick the furnace into thinking the neutral is grounded even though the power station itself is not.

random YT comment:
Grounding is tricky concept with multiple subtlety different meanings.
 
I guess that would work.
There has been a lot of talk about a bluetti solar generator that has the polarity reversed on its rv recectacle and correct on the nema 5-20 receptacles. Bonding plug will not be a good solution for that product.
Also not a good solution for a generator that already bonds neutral to ground.

Are you talking about the green grounding conductor that goes back to the ac distribution panel or some other use of the word ground?

Grounding is tricky concept with multiple subtlety different meanings.

The ungrounded floating power station (bluetti or ecoflow) would be using southwire bond plug to fool the furnace into thinking the neutral is bonded to a ground even though it technically isn't, So the furnace would get hot and bonded neutral from said power station.

The furnace should be satisfied with the hot and bonded neutral from power station but now there is one wire left on the furnace to connect THE GROUND...should it go to the power station where the ground plug is now bonded to neutral thanks to the southwire product OR should it stay grounded to the original ground that goes to main house panel where it's also bonded?
 
The ungrounded floating power station (bluetti or ecoflow) would be using southwire bond plug to fool the furnace into thinking the neutral is bonded to a ground even though it technically isn't, So the furnace would get hot and bonded neutral from said power station.

The furnace should be satisfied with the hot and bonded neutral from power station but now there is one wire left on the furnace to connect THE GROUND...should it go to the power station where the ground plug is now bonded to neutral thanks to the southwire product OR should it stay grounded to the original ground that goes to main house panel where it's also bonded?
Since you diverted the hot and neutral connections from the main panel to the solar generator you should do the same with the ground.
 
FYI there is a hover menu at the bottom of this link to navigate between the pages.
bluetti max
The Bluetti product in question reversed the polarity on tt-30 recpetacle for some reason.
 
Thank you I don't have a large station yet only the EB70, It's too small to power the gas furnace but my garage gas tube heater is only 100w so I could test it out on that later. When using the bond plug I'm guessing it makes the outlets test 0 volts between ground and neutral. Here is the new plan then.Powersetup.png
 
Be sure to check the polarity on any device that intend to bond with the bonding plug.
Seems there were at least 2 other manufacturers with reverse polarity issues.
 
Polarity. There is no polarity in alternating current. We create the "neutral" by connecting the "ground" to one side of the ac. The other side becomes the "hot" as it has potential to "ground". If there is "reverse polarity" that means the wrong side of the outlet, the female receptacle, is connected to "ground". It is simply wired wrong, if it is bonded. No extra "bonding plug" will do anything but maybe create a massive short. That is why in a grid system we can only have one neutral/ground bond located at the service entrance. On stand alone non grid tied systems we create the "neutral" with a bond at the source of ac power. Inverter.
 
Back
Top