NEWS: New Midnite Solar DIY Series - SCC's & Inverters (great $ too)

SpongeboB Sinewave · Dec 19, 2021

MrM1 said:
Problem solved. When can we expect the torture video

Will Prowse said:
Now if they build their own all in one unit here in the states, I will be all over it! That would be fantastic! And I hope that they can beat the competition. In quality and price. But what I'm seeing so far, I'm not impressed the slightest.

I was going to let this go but I need to mention something about manufacturing electronics in America. The US is not very electronic manufacturer friendly these days.

Tariffs that are imposed on us and the cost of manufacturing in the US make it impossible to be as inexpensive as something made in Asia.

We rely on parts from all over the world and a lot of the electronic parts come from China.
Electrolytic capacitors for example. There are also several small custom parts made in China that cannot be obtained in the US for the price and quality that China can do.

These days you can have a product manufactured specifically for you by a company in China and the complete product will arive in the US with a tariff of around 5% or maybe 6% for that complete boxed and tested unit landed here. Inverters and charge controllers are two products that fit into that category.

MidNite Solar has to pay tariffs on all of the parts that we receive from China which is typically 25%. Midnite was being charged 40% on some parts. Electrolytics for instance are 25% Tariff and they are not cheap. But those capacitors are the best in the world. You cannot get those from the US or India or Taiwan. Could get around that just by having the whole unit made in China.

There are also rules and regulations that you have to follow in the US that make it not the best for manufacturing electronics but that is what we do and prefer to hire people in the US to manufacture as much of the electronics as possible. It almost seems that the US is begging companies like MidNite to take their manufacturing overseas as most competitors have already done.

Just the custom boxes and packaging for shipping costs about 150% more if it was made here in the US rather than overseas.
Right now, much of MidNites' boxes come from here.

This is really unfortunate and it's not the way it used to be 30 years ago when we were manufacturing electronics in the US.

Midnite has as many of the parts built in the US and locally as possible though.

EDIT:
The DIY units are only meant to give a decent "Me Too" Chinese product for customers in the US to buy that costs less than what we can make here in the US for that price. We would not put our name on them if they were garbage but there are certainly other good products from Asia, and some not so good ones. The DIY series is not meant to take over from our US engineered and manufactured products that will definitely cost more than the Asian products but we are able to add a couple of extra things such as an E-panel for NEC compatibility and decent (hopefully) support. We will be able to put the American quality touch to our made in American products that we are working very hard on now. But the Asian countries are getting extremely good at this and so we offer that less expensive alternative.

ONE more thing to add... It is difficult finding good people to work in electronics manufacturing, engineering and technical areas here these days... MidNite is always on the look out for talented technical people in the PNW area of the US. Yes, geeks

... Let is know if you might be interested or just want the nickel tour.

boB

curiouscarbon · Dec 19, 2021

the system is indeed flawed, thanks for articulating it clearly.

system incentive

SolarPrep · Dec 20, 2021

I started to write a post condemning the comments made by Will, because it irks me that he tests a lot of cheap imported equipment that cannot be installed legally in many jurisdictions where readers are located. I hit the post key by mistake, and then deleted it, because I wasn't done. He himself is making significant fees for being an "influencer" and for "affiliate links", but is not bearing the legal or financial responsibility for the results of his Youtube videos. I have stated in the past that I'm just waiting for the lawsuits to begin, when people buy a piece of equipment that isn't certified, and put it into an installation in an incorrect manner, and then experience a significant loss. I'm not saying that his videos have no value. They do educate people on some aspects of safety. But that is a far cry from being an expert on how to start or run a business that doesn't have the luxury of operating in the manner he does.

I'd like Will to follow up on his comments about how easy it is to get the Chinese to build something better. To be at the same level as Midnite Solar, he will first have to hire actual US based employees, provide service, engineering support, etc. Oh, and operate at a disadvantage from the very start because his business will have to compete with countries like China who don't respect laws when it is inconvenient or costly. I see that Apple just got strong-armed into agreeing to invest $260 billion$ or so over the next 5 years in China, but that is a bit off topic....

Will did a "rant" video that I agreed with for the most part. If you haven't watched it, do so. He talks a lot about taking responsibility for your own actions, and learning things for yourself. Then decide if his making a lot of money making videos on testing things like MPP inverters is improving the ability of US companies to compete in a fair and equitable manner. Because, in this country, companies like Midnite Solar have to make enough of a profit margin to pay for the very real costs of maintaining a brick and mortar operation, and having people answer the phones who know what they are talking about. They have legal responsibility for the products they manufacture.

This post is rambling, so I'll close with this observation: it is easy to make comments about things you only have a shallow understanding of, and for which you don't have the time or ability to get the facts. For example, the whole "buy American" concept. It was done in the past when Japan started to eat our lunch, and make better products. American companies cried "foul" because Japan did in fact practice unfair dumping of products on our market below cost. But American businesses jumped on the bandwagon, and lobbied hard for legislation to level the paying field by reclassifying tariffs so they could take advantage of those same practices. China does many of the same things, but in the interim, so many jobs have left the US that we are simply not in the lead any longer when it comes to technology. Now, companies are forced to deal with the Chinese, because we CANNOT compete on a fair basis. The comment about being willing to pay more for a piece of gear made in the USA is laughable, (sad?) because that isn't the case in the vast majority of situations.

Will Prowse · Dec 20, 2021

SolarPrep said:
I started to write a post condemning the comments made by Will, because it irks me that he tests a lot of cheap imported equipment that cannot be installed legally in many jurisdictions where readers are located. I hit the post key by mistake, and then deleted it, because I wasn't done. He himself is making significant fees for being an "influencer" and for "affiliate links", but is not bearing the legal or financial responsibility for the results of his Youtube videos. I have stated in the past that I'm just waiting for the lawsuits to begin, when people buy a piece of equipment that isn't certified, and put it into an installation in an incorrect manner, and then experience a significant loss. I'm not saying that his videos have no value. They do educate people on some aspects of safety. But that is a far cry from being an expert on how to start or run a business that doesn't have the luxury of operating in the manner he does.

I'd like Will to follow up on his comments about how easy it is to get the Chinese to build something better. To be at the same level as Midnite Solar, he will first have to hire actual US based employees, provide service, engineering support, etc. Oh, and operate at a disadvantage from the very start because his business will have to compete with countries like China who don't respect laws when it is inconvenient or costly. I see that Apple just got strong-armed into agreeing to invest $260 billion$ or so over the next 5 years in China, but that is a bit off topic....

Will did a "rant" video that I agreed with for the most part. If you haven't watched it, do so. He talks a lot about taking responsibility for your own actions, and learning things for yourself. Then decide if his making a lot of money making videos on testing things like MPP inverters is improving the ability of US companies to compete in a fair and equitable manner. Because, in this country, companies like Midnite Solar have to make enough of a profit margin to pay for the very real costs of maintaining a brick and mortar operation, and having people answer the phones who know what they are talking about. They have legal responsibility for the products they manufacture.

This post is rambling, so I'll close with this observation: it is easy to make comments about things you only have a shallow understanding of, and for which you don't have the time or ability to get the facts. For example, the whole "buy American" concept. It was done in the past when Japan started to eat our lunch, and make better products. American companies cried "foul" because Japan did in fact practice unfair dumping of products on our market below cost. But American businesses jumped on the bandwagon, and lobbied hard for legislation to level the paying field by reclassifying tariffs so they could take advantage of those same practices. China does many of the same things, but in the interim, so many jobs have left the US that we are simply not in the lead any longer when it comes to technology. Now, companies are forced to deal with the Chinese, because we CANNOT compete on a fair basis. The comment about being willing to pay more for a piece of gear made in the USA is laughable, (sad?) because that isn't the case in the vast majority of situations.

What in the world are you talking about?? The only units I mention in my videos are offgrid inverters, NOT UL1741 grid tie inverters. Nothing in my video's is "illegal" or non code compliant. I make my income predominantly from affiliate links and that is 100% legal and morally correct. What is not morally correct is signing those stupid sponsorship contracts that every youtuber out there does, then shill products that are complete garbage. I am the only channel I know in this space that does not sign any of those contracts, and has zero deals with any company. I use whatever distributor I please to supply products that I personally like, and if they do a bad job, I get another distributor to take over instantly. I have zero loyalty and zero commitment to these companies.

And none of my systems are illegal or need to pass any form of inspection. I even have a video on grid tie systems where I recommend that people hire a professional.

The DIY series is a relabeled inverter that multiple other companies are selling, which I tested, and I did not like. Maybe they made theirs differently, maybe not. I have no clue. I had a lot of respect for midnite till they started selling these. I know It's hard to make USA manufactured solar goods, but we need someone to do it.

And why is everyone so concerned with how much I make? Never has that changed my opinion on any of these products. I have had products that I absolutely love, fail my tests, and I post it everywhere. I have lost tons of money because these companies screw something up, or they have a fantastic product, but then they have horrible customer service, and then I make a video about that. I would have made a lot more money if I just lied to everyone, but I never do. I tell people every single painstaking detail about these products and the companies distributing them, and I lose a lot of money when they screw up. Compare that to other channels!

If midnite cannot make a USA manufactured AIO system that can compete with the chinese products available, they deserve to fail. Just like any business. I do not care about these silly excuses everyone keeps making as to why china is cheaper. I do not care the slightest. American companies need to step up and beat them. Making excuses for american companies is getting old. They need to do a better job.

Your last paragraph is multiple excuses saying china is better, and it is not fair etc. Our populace is growing more obese by the second, and our national debt is increasing rapidly by the trillions of dollars. We are growing weak. I do not care how "unfair" the competition is. It shows that America is behind and that's it.

Furthermore, I love what the chinese are doing for solar right now. American companies are an absolute joke compared to the new manufacturing processes for LiFePO4 and efficiency and scale of their operations. I am biased towards america needing to succeed, but I do see that china is whopping our butts.

Will Prowse · Dec 20, 2021

SolarPrep said:
I started to write a post condemning the comments made by Will, because it irks me that he tests a lot of cheap imported equipment that cannot be installed legally in many jurisdictions where readers are located. I hit the post key by mistake, and then deleted it, because I wasn't done. He himself is making significant fees for being an "influencer" and for "affiliate links", but is not bearing the legal or financial responsibility for the results of his Youtube videos. I have stated in the past that I'm just waiting for the lawsuits to begin, when people buy a piece of equipment that isn't certified, and put it into an installation in an incorrect manner, and then experience a significant loss. I'm not saying that his videos have no value. They do educate people on some aspects of safety. But that is a far cry from being an expert on how to start or run a business that doesn't have the luxury of operating in the manner he does.

I'd like Will to follow up on his comments about how easy it is to get the Chinese to build something better. To be at the same level as Midnite Solar, he will first have to hire actual US based employees, provide service, engineering support, etc. Oh, and operate at a disadvantage from the very start because his business will have to compete with countries like China who don't respect laws when it is inconvenient or costly. I see that Apple just got strong-armed into agreeing to invest $260 billion$ or so over the next 5 years in China, but that is a bit off topic....

Will did a "rant" video that I agreed with for the most part. If you haven't watched it, do so. He talks a lot about taking responsibility for your own actions, and learning things for yourself. Then decide if his making a lot of money making videos on testing things like MPP inverters is improving the ability of US companies to compete in a fair and equitable manner. Because, in this country, companies like Midnite Solar have to make enough of a profit margin to pay for the very real costs of maintaining a brick and mortar operation, and having people answer the phones who know what they are talking about. They have legal responsibility for the products they manufacture.

This post is rambling, so I'll close with this observation: it is easy to make comments about things you only have a shallow understanding of, and for which you don't have the time or ability to get the facts. For example, the whole "buy American" concept. It was done in the past when Japan started to eat our lunch, and make better products. American companies cried "foul" because Japan did in fact practice unfair dumping of products on our market below cost. But American businesses jumped on the bandwagon, and lobbied hard for legislation to level the paying field by reclassifying tariffs so they could take advantage of those same practices. China does many of the same things, but in the interim, so many jobs have left the US that we are simply not in the lead any longer when it comes to technology. Now, companies are forced to deal with the Chinese, because we CANNOT compete on a fair basis. The comment about being willing to pay more for a piece of gear made in the USA is laughable, (sad?) because that isn't the case in the vast majority of situations.

I am getting tired of people mentioning code compliance for offgrid inverters that do not require it. If I hook up an inverter to a car battery, why do people not cry about code compliance there? But if you build an offgrid solar power system, people try to apply utility grid code compliance?? That does not make any sense. An offgrid floating system is very different than a grid tie or hybrid inverter.

Also, keep in mind that 50% of my viewers do not live in america, and it is up to the INDIVIDUAL to look up local laws and safety codes. I am not going to babysit my viewers and look up every law in every country. That is up to YOU. Not me. Full-grown adults have the capacity to do this. I constantly mention that people should hire professionals for grid tie installations, but it seems that you have completely missed every time I mentioned that.

Will Prowse · Dec 20, 2021

SpongeboB Sinewave said:
I was going to let this go but I need to mention something about manufacturing electronics in America. The US is not very electronic manufacturer friendly these days.

Tariffs that are imposed on us and the cost of manufacturing in the US make it impossible to be as inexpensive as something made in Asia.

We rely on parts from all over the world and a lot of the electronic parts come from China.
Electrolytic capacitors for example. There are also several small custom parts made in China that cannot be obtained in the US for the price and quality that China can do.

These days you can have a product manufactured specifically for you by a company in China and the complete product will arive in the US with a tariff of around 5% or maybe 6% for that complete boxed and tested unit landed here. Inverters and charge controllers are two products that fit into that category.

MidNite Solar has to pay tariffs on all of the parts that we receive from China which is typically 25%. Midnite was being charged 40% on some parts. Electrolytics for instance are 25% Tariff and they are not cheap. But those capacitors are the best in the world. You cannot get those from the US or India or Taiwan. Could get around that just by having the whole unit made in China.

There are also rules and regulations that you have to follow in the US that make it not the best for manufacturing electronics but that is what we do and prefer to hire people in the US to manufacture as much of the electronics as possible. It almost seems that the US is begging companies like MidNite to take their manufacturing overseas as most competitors have already done.

Just the custom boxes and packaging for shipping costs about 150% more if it was made here in the US rather than overseas.
Right now, much of MidNites' boxes come from here.

This is really unfortunate and it's not the way it used to be 30 years ago when we were manufacturing electronics in the US.

Midnite has as many of the parts built in the US and locally as possible though.

EDIT:
The DIY units are only meant to give a decent "Me Too" Chinese product for customers in the US to buy that costs less than what we can make here in the US for that price. We would not put our name on them if they were garbage but there are certainly other good products from Asia, and some not so good ones. The DIY series is not meant to take over from our US engineered and manufactured products that will definitely cost more than the Asian products but we are able to add a couple of extra things such as an E-panel for NEC compatibility and decent (hopefully) support. We will be able to put the American quality touch to our made in American products that we are working very hard on now. But the Asian countries are getting extremely good at this and so we offer that less expensive alternative.

ONE more thing to add... It is difficult finding good people to work in electronics manufacturing, engineering and technical areas here these days... MidNite is always on the look out for talented technical people in the PNW area of the US. Yes, geeks ... Let is know if you might be interested or just want the nickel tour.

boB

I do not care. American needs to change how "unfair" it is or else they will grow weak in the global economy, specifically in this sector. Asian countries are excelling at manufacturing these goods, as you have stated. But it is not an excuse or reason for american companies just to give up. And yes, the components have high tariffs, so they need to start making them here in america as well. Tariffs are not an excuse at all.

And these diy units are a metal box with a chinese circuit board inside. Nothing else. You are saying that americans can't build the same thing? They cannot source the components here in america at all? How pitiful do people assume america to be these days.

Will Prowse · Dec 20, 2021

Hedges said:
It is possible to make a product better with superior quality components, but there is a limit to what could be accomplished on existing PCB. If PCB changed for their revisions, you'll see that. Look also for brand of power transistors and capacitors.
Easier to make a sow's ear out of a silk purse than the other way around.

Software can make all the difference in the world, and it would even be possible to make a poor product better with alternate software. Just not likely it would have quality hardware to work with.
Ford had a dispute with International because the diesel engines they bought had a horrible failure rate. Ford was unwilling to buy International's ECU, made their own for it instead. International trucks with the same engine were reliable.

Yes, very true. Good points. Need to keep any eye out to see any differences between their diy series and the competition.

Will Prowse · Dec 20, 2021

What I personally do not understand here, is why are people standing up for midnite when they sell an inverter charger that is not UL listed, but then try to give me a hard time using my MPP/Growatts which now have UL certificates (by third parties, and yes I know the difference) and next year will have UL listing. They will be 100% legal to install and use with the grid (hybrid models only. nothing is changing with the offgrid units). Do people not realize that MPP/Growatts used to have zero third party safety certificates, and people still used them 24/7 for years? They work well, especially for the price. And they are not low quality devices. Open them up and look inside. Compare them to an AIMs inverter or whatever you wish.

I think a huge issue is people look at an all in one system and think that it is different than a stand alone offgrid inverter and dedicated MPPT. They try to compare them to hybrid inverters for grid tie use, which they are not. Those are entirely different in use and design.

SpongeboB Sinewave · Dec 20, 2021

Will Prowse said:
I probably won't test the midnite diy series unless it is UL listed or differentiates itself in some way. Or has a competitive price compared to other models coming out next year. The competition will be tough. Lots of great stuff coming out soon.

The DIY inverter/charger is no different than whatever SRNE makes and sells for this unit except for the name on the front so I would imagine you were going to find the same thing here. Only difference is what we add externally to make it communicate with the outside world better and the upcoming ePanel so it can be installed legally per NEC.

Will Prowse · Dec 20, 2021

SpongeboB Sinewave said:
The DIY inverter/charger is no different than whatever SRNE makes and sells for this unit except for the name on the front so I would imagine you were going to find the same thing here. Only difference is what we add externally to make it communicate with the outside world better and the upcoming ePanel so it can be installed legally per NEC.

Yes absolutely agree. The epanel seems interesting. I still think that in this price range, people are using these for RV's and cabins. Not necessarily a home back up. I could be wrong. The output capacity is pretty limited though.

SpongeboB Sinewave · Dec 20, 2021

Will Prowse said:
Yes, very true. Good points. Need to keep any eye out to see any differences between their diy series and the competition.

Again there are no differences in components on the inside from whatever SRNE makes for everybody else. From what I have seen in the past all of the Chinese or most of the Chinese inverters use pretty good components and there are no good Chinese MOSFETs as far as I know and I have looked. That is why they used the same parts that everybody else uses. And The best filter capacitors already come from China.

I can tell you why people buy Chinese inverters. All comes down to price. The DIY is a Chinese inverter so some of those are going to be sold.

Will Prowse · Dec 20, 2021

SpongeboB Sinewave said:
Again there are no differences in components on the inside from whatever SRNE makes for everybody else. From what I have seen in the past all of the Chinese or most of the Chinese inverters use pretty good components and there are no good Chinese MOSFETs as far as I know and I have looked. That is why they used the same parts that everybody else uses. And The best filter capacitors already come from China.

I can tell you why people buy Chinese inverters. All comes down to price. The DIY is a Chinese inverter so some of those are going to be sold.

Yes agreed.

Will Prowse · Dec 20, 2021

Check this out. Same exact product. 60A MPPT. Same display and lights on the top. I have used the rich solar clone and renogy one for ages now. Great little device.

Midnite: $433
Rich Solar: $369

Rich solar has an american warehouse near the port of los angeles. Now what I wish to know, is what consumer on this planet would choose the midnite version over the rich solar one? Rich solar has fantastic customer support and warranty. Why would anyone choose the midnite version?

Hedges · Dec 20, 2021

Will Prowse said:
If midnite cannot make a USA manufactured AIO system that can compete with the chinese products available, they deserve to fail. Just like any business. I do not care about these silly excuses everyone keeps making as to why china is cheaper.

SpongeboB Sinewave said:
These days you can have a product manufactured specifically for you by a company in China and the complete product will arive in the US with a tariff of around 5% or maybe 6% for that complete boxed and tested unit landed here. Inverters and charge controllers are two products that fit into that category.

MidNite Solar has to pay tariffs on all of the parts that we receive from China which is typically 25%. Midnite was being charged 40% on some parts. Electrolytics for instance are 25% Tariff and they are not cheap. But those capacitors are the best in the world. You cannot get those from the US or India or Taiwan. Could get around that just by having the whole unit made in China.

So Midnight can pay a 25% to 40% premium on components and build an inverter in the U.S.
To compete with a chinese inverter that gets imported with a 5% premium.

Electricity in the U.S. from a somewhat cleaner mix of generation, costs industrial users $0.17
vs. rapid build-out of coal-fired plants in China providing average industrial electric price $0.10/kWh
(Worst impact of pollution on the local population, but we in the U.S. get to enjoy their emissions too.)

US employers paying mandated US wages around $7/hour, some cities $15/hour (or what it takes to get workers from residents not including the fat lazy slobs), plus about $12,000 per year insurance cost.
China wages used to be $2/day, what are they now? Healthcare costs?

So rather than a level playing field, it is an uphill battle. The government actively works to make the slope steeper.

Will Prowse said:
And yes, the components have high tariffs, so they need to start making them here in america as well. Tariffs are not an excuse at all.

Not for America, but yes for Midnight. They can't also make electrolytic capacitors at a scale needed to be cost competitive.
Time was when major companies had their own wafer fabs, needed for competitive edge. Today, they rely on independent foundries built at a cost of $billions.

US manufacturing is still at a high dollar volume, but concentrated on high end products. Where labor is a significant part of the cost, much of that has migrated to China, Mexico, elsewhere.

The bulk of US PV market is grid-tied. I don't think Midnight makes anything for pure GT PV, only battery systems. Much smaller volume, doesn't get the economy of scale and use of fully automated assembly for lowest labor content. They could use US based board stuffers and cable assembly, but price probably 10x what you can get from China. We had some wire harnesses built locally, about 2' long with 100 crimp terminals. Cost over $1000 - that's $10 for each terminal crimped on a wire!

Advice for Midnight: Battery storage coupled with PV is going to be huge. California is forcing us this direction with their new NEM 3.0, don't miss out. It will require UL-1741-SA compliance and needs to prioritize storing PV generated power and using it to offset consumption during peak times, while avoiding export. Should also signal to enable loads when surplus is available.

Hedges · Dec 20, 2021

China wages:

Hmm, if this US$54k/year ($27/hour) average is correct, no wonder they're afraid of losing manufacturing to Vietnam, etc.

What’s the average salary in China in 2024?

Find out the average salary in China. Also discover the top three industries to outsource to China, and the advantages of doing so.

biz30.timedoctor.com

About identical to U.S. which is $26/hour? That can't be right, can it?

United States Average Hourly Wages

Wages in the United States increased to 29.79 USD/Hour in March from 29.72 USD/Hour in February of 2024. This page provides - United States Average Hourly Wages - actual values, historical data, forecast, chart, statistics, economic calendar and news.

tradingeconomics.com

SpongeboB Sinewave · Dec 20, 2021

Will Prowse said:
Check this out. Same exact product. 60A MPPT. Same display and lights on the top. I have used the rich solar clone and renogy one for ages now. Great little device.

Midnite: $433
Rich Solar: $369

Rich solar has an american warehouse near the port of los angeles. Now what I wish to know, is what consumer on this planet would choose the midnite version over the rich solar one? Rich solar has fantastic customer support and warranty. Why would anyone choose the midnite version?

Yep. Some people pay more some people pay less and they can go wherever they want to go to buy this stuff. Midnite cannot get those charge controllers as inexpensively as some of the others like Rich Solar evidently. That's okay. The more expensive DIY SRNE controller is still less expensive than Midnite classics and when people come to look to buy something from MidNite solar they may prefer to have the controller and the inverter come from the same outfit so they can get support for both ?

I don't think you are going to find one specific answer to the why people pay more for the same things. Maybe they don't care for the extra few dollars ? Maybe they like the idea of DIY and the Midnite branding and upcoming ePanels? Not sure.

Why do people go to a gas station where the gasoline costs 25% more than the 7-Eleven down the street?

Hedges · Dec 20, 2021

SpongeboB Sinewave said:
Again there are no differences in components on the inside from whatever SRNE makes for everybody else. From what I have seen in the past all of the Chinese or most of the Chinese inverters use pretty good components and there are no good Chinese MOSFETs as far as I know and I have looked. That is why they used the same parts that everybody else uses. And The best filter capacitors already come from China.

I don't know about the Chinese brand inverters because I don't have any, but there are a lot of cr*p products from no-name brands that fail quickly. I would guess components and/or design. Midnight in this thread has mentioned protection circuits, which of course make a big difference in letting the inverter live to fight another day. Stress-testing and iterating in design of course, to find what your designers missed.

Also quality name brand products built in China. Even for US manufacturing, you have to police your suppliers or they will falsify test results and ship out of spec/defective products. In China, much of the electronic manufacturing is performed for US companies by Electronic Contract Manufacturers with factories there (and elsewhere.) It is their job to do that policing, and obviously do considering the quality of iPhones and other products we buy. But they can also be the ones making substitutions of cheaper components and skimming the difference. When you built a product for about 7% over raw component cost and profit 1% or 2%, that can be very tempting. Sometimes, they've been caught with their hand in the cookie jar.

Hedges · Dec 20, 2021

SpongeboB Sinewave said:
Midnite cannot get those charge controllers as inexpensively as some of the others like Rich Solar evidently.

Midnight has mentioned specifying changes to rebranded products.
Is that the case for these charge controllers?

Which products do have Midnight specific changes? Is that alternate brand/model components? Circuit changes? Firmware?

Are there differences in specs (e.g. surge capability)? Protocol, supporting interoperability with your other equipment? Reliability, perhaps reflected in a longer warranty?
Anything Will could observe in side-by-side tests?
If there is, I would suggest starting increasingly large induction motors, reporting the difference in surge capacity VA and HP it can start.
Overload and report one shutting down cleanly vs. burning up (reference the video "Oh No! It's a Smoke!")
Operate at high temperature and report derating of output or early failure, as the case may be.

Halfcrazy · Dec 20, 2021

Hedges said:
Midnight has mentioned specifying changes to rebranded products.
Is that the case for these charge controllers?

Which products do have Midnight specific changes? Is that alternate brand/model components? Circuit changes? Firmware?

Are there differences in specs (e.g. surge capability)? Protocol, supporting interoperability with your other equipment? Reliability, perhaps reflected in a longer warranty?
Anything Will could observe in side-by-side tests?
If there is, I would suggest starting increasingly large induction motors, reporting the difference in surge capacity VA and HP it can start.
Overload and report one shutting down cleanly vs. burning up (reference the video "Oh No! It's a Smoke!")
Operate at high temperature and report derating of output or early failure, as the case may be.

To the best of my knowledge you will not see any differences, Any improvements we have pointed out to SRNE would have been made accross the board not just to our private labeled models.

SpongeboB Sinewave · Dec 20, 2021

Hedges said:
Midnight has mentioned specifying changes to rebranded products.
Is that the case for these charge controllers?

Which products do have Midnight specific changes? Is that alternate brand/model components? Circuit changes? Firmware?

Are there differences in specs (e.g. surge capability)? Protocol, supporting interoperability with your other equipment? Reliability, perhaps reflected in a longer warranty?
Anything Will could observe in side-by-side tests?
If there is, I would suggest starting increasingly large induction motors, reporting the difference in surge capacity VA and HP it can start.
Overload and report one shutting down cleanly vs. burning up (reference the video "Oh No! It's a Smoke!")
Operate at high temperature and report derating of output or early failure, as the case may be.

Hedges, where did you hear about hardware or software changes to the SRNE controller or inverter/charger ?

The only differences that I know of would be the E-Panel and the combox to make the inverter have a web server which would be manufactured here in the US.

NEWS: New Midnite Solar DIY Series - SCC's & Inverters (great $ too)

Solar Enthusiast

Science Penguin

Solar Enthusiast

Forum Owner

Forum Owner

Forum Owner

Forum Owner

Forum Owner

Solar Enthusiast

Forum Owner

Solar Enthusiast

Forum Owner

Forum Owner

Attachments

I See Electromagnetic Fields!

I See Electromagnetic Fields!

Solar Enthusiast

I See Electromagnetic Fields!

I See Electromagnetic Fields!

Solar Enthusiast

Solar Enthusiast

Similar threads