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Victron Lithium "Smart" Battery (BMS Sold Separately)

Will Prowse

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Victron seems to have their own LiFePO4 battery with integrated BMS (Update: Wrong! The BMS is sold separately!!). In the past, you needed the full victron ecosystem for external management for basic safety features. I am guessing that the externally managed pack did not sell well, so they are selling this instead. And it is very expensive:
scsdcd.jpg

I like Victron, but this is just excessive. These prices make a battleborn look cheap.

They also posted a video on their youtube, last night at 1am:


Would love to hear your thoughts. I do not think many people can afford this, and server rack batteries have better build quality and features. Some of the new server packs even have internal heaters, and more communication options.
 
You are paying for the name, not the battery. Victron IS top quality, but it's just like buying a Fluke multimeter. The Klein can get the job done just fine for a long time.

As a Victron distributor, I don't really even consider stocking them. When we first started carrying Victron products below another distributor, the distributor called us a "disservice to the Victron Distribution channel" for not putting their batteries on our front page above SOK battery.
 
Holy cow they said that!? Ridiculous.

Imagine building a 30kWh+ size system with these packs. That would cost some serious money.
 
Would love to hear your thoughts

I recently bought two Pylontech UP2500s. 110Ah each - at 24V. 1100€ each.
From a local hardware store, no shipping. They look good.
pylont.jpg

Each has its own BMS. They have CAN, serial and console ports. Little LEDs that tell me approximate SOC.
OK, they're Chinese. Victron is - supposedly - Dutch. At double the price, they can speak Double Dutch for all I care ;·)
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Victron is - supposedly - Dutch. At double the price, they can speak Double Dutch for all I care ;·)
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Every single Victron product I have (4 SCC, 2 battery to battery charger, a Multiplus inverter/charger, all the Victron communication cables) are made in India. :sneaky:
 
We have had different versions of victron lithium batteries in Aus since 2016, if I recall correctly, as I was fitting out a camper at that time.

they now have their smart range, which doesn’t seem too smart.

the pricing is just silly, they haven’t really moved much in price since they were released.

Victron do make some good stuff, but some of it is overpriced
 
When it comes to their batteries it almost feels like an after-thought. Like they didn’t want to make it but some of their big high dollar marine customers came to them and demanded a battery so their whole system can be blue. Victron caved, made an OK battery, and slapped a big ?on it and said “here it is! Come and buy it!” I know that Silent Yachts uses Victron batteries in their 200kWh, multi-million, all electric, solar yachts.

I’d never buy them, and I love my Victron Multiplus-II.
 
If it lasts three times as long, it is good value. I’ve seen early BYD B-Box units fail, warranty after 5 years isn’t worth chasing as its a pro-rata scheme. Pylontech use cheap cells and can’t handle hot conditions. Early Simpliphi have comms issues and i’ve seen several early failures.
I’m not sure what cells Victron use now, but their Winston based batteries have proven to be solid - has anyone seen one fail?

I know Will Prowse has said many times he isn’t interested in making a battery last a long time, but my experience with setting up power systems - the longer lasting the better.

The only reason i assemble my own batteries is because there are no commercial offerings that offer suitable longevity. (and hence lower cost/kwh)
 
If it lasts three times as long, it is good value. I’ve seen early BYD B-Box units fail, warranty after 5 years isn’t worth chasing as its a pro-rata scheme. Pylontech use cheap cells and can’t handle hot conditions. Early Simpliphi have comms issues and i’ve seen several early failures.
I’m not sure what cells Victron use now, but their Winston based batteries have proven to be solid - has anyone seen one fail?

I know Will Prowse has said many times he isn’t interested in making a battery last a long time, but my experience with setting up power systems - the longer lasting the better.

The only reason i assemble my own batteries is because there are no commercial offerings that offer suitable longevity. (and hence lower cost/kwh)
I am not interested in making a battery last a long time? What are you talking about? Longevity is a huge concern of mine. I was running FLA for years, and after replacing countless batteries due to sulfation or shorted cells, I had to use LiFePO4. I have not had any longevity issues with LFP. Longevity is a huge concern, and my packs seem to run forever these days. I do 100% DOD cycles as well.

What failed on the BYD packs?

Do you have proof of pylontech batteries not able to handle hot environments?

Simpliphi still has a 10,000 cycle warranty. That is a very long time. What comms issues do you refer to?

Winston cells are good, but the victron pack requires external regulation. I am not sure what cells are in the new one. You can easily buy the winston cells on your own, they are not hard to find.
 
If it lasts three times as long, it is good value.

At double the price, it certainly is. The math is flawless ;·). It's sort of a big if, though, innit.

Pylontech use cheap cells and can’t handle hot conditions.

Based on... your own extensive tests? Someone else's? Published where?

Honestly, if you have a racing superyacht that costs a million a day to run, even a small chance that they're marginally better will do.
If you are struggling to make ends meet to run a small house... you'd need some harder data.
 
I am not interested in making a battery last a long time? What are you talking about? Longevity is a huge concern of mine.

A quote of yours from a compression thread
“I am not trying to increase the cycle life as some forum members here aim to accomplish. I have zero interest in doing that.”
 
A quote of yours from a compression thread
“I am not trying to increase the cycle life as some forum members here aim to accomplish. I have zero interest in doing that.”
Yes, I have no interest in milking an additional 1000 cycles to 80% capacity. It is entirely pointless in my opinion. I will be an old man or dead before I see those cycles. Even if I am still alive, I can still cycle the cells just fine.

I care greatly about the build quality, and how long the battery will last, but degradation with lifepo4? Not that big of a concern.

If we were talking about NMC or NCA, I would absolutely be modifying my cycling bandwidth. I would have to baby the batteries. I think people baby their lifepo4, and there is no point. They cycle them like they are the cobalt based lithium ion variants.

I want my packs to last 100 years. Calendar aging will kill these packs before lack of compression or other factors degrade these batteries in solar systems.

Read carefully that I stated I have no interest in increasing cycle life, and this is because the cycle life is astronomical as it is.
 
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10000 cycles, once daily is only 27 years. If you think you (or someone you care about) won’t have a use for your battery in 27 years then fine. I’m keen for my cells to last at least that long and hopefully longer.

The “problem” with LiFePO4 is that an end of life scenario hasn’t been seen yet with typical useage patterns, and every prediction i have seen regarding lifespan over the last decade has been proven wrong.

It makes it difficult to determine the value of a system, and most of the major players have worked out that if they use cheap cells their system will last over 6 years, by which time most consumers are satisfied with value for money.

The reality is these consumers are paying a higher per kwh cost for their energy - they just don’t care.
 
i will say on Victron's behalf, at least you can get FULL rated current, that's not BMS limited, in a turn-key solution.
 
But then again, if with my turnkey solution (see #5), at half the price, I get, say, 90% of it - very likely - I'm still way ahead, am I not?
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10000 cycles, once daily is only 27 years. If you think you (or someone you care about) won’t have a use for your battery in 27 years then fine. I’m keen for my cells to last at least that long and hopefully longer.

The “problem” with LiFePO4 is that an end of life scenario hasn’t been seen yet with typical useage patterns, and every prediction i have seen regarding lifespan over the last decade has been proven wrong.

It makes it difficult to determine the value of a system, and most of the major players have worked out that if they use cheap cells their system will last over 6 years, by which time most consumers are satisfied with value for money.

The reality is these consumers are paying a higher per kwh cost for their energy - they just don’t care.
in 27 years your battery will already be dead due to the calendar aging that Will is talking about, meanwhile if you have only been using the battery to 80% of less of it's ability, when put side-by-side with a battery used to 100% of it's ability, the person who used 100% ends up getting more bang for their buck because in both cases the batteries are dead due to age, not due to cycles.
 
in 27 years your battery will already be dead due to the calendar aging that Will is talking about,

How many LiFePO4 cells have you seen die of old age? I’ve seen plenty of 2007 cells that are showing zero signs of calendar ageing.

All the predictive tests i have seen to date have been proven wrong (there is a good reason for this - the chemistry of the cell changes above about 0.5C, so any test using greater than this rate will be invalid)
 
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