diy solar

diy solar

Electric Companies slowly taking back control


just a quick google search, " agl " ( remember these entities have " parent " companies) as basic as I could get, " profits of Australian electricity companies " and you get a lot about the 2017 accc inquiry into price gouging and corruption, oh and there " official " paper on energy usage and various breakdowns, which have numbers way above a couple of hundred million bucks worth but I digress, but this article, from a " respectable " media outlet is talking numbers wayyy above the ones you have quoted in Queensland, now I know Victoria/NSW has more population, but come on, 300 million a year.. again, your very welcome to believe that,
 
Apples and oranges.
The business model and pricing structure of power companies varies widely around the world.
Each jurisdiction and geographic area is different so it makes no sense to speak of them as one homogeneous entity. You need to talk about each one individually.

Most are either government owned or highly regulated utilities.
Put yourself in their shoes: They have an obligation to build and maintain an infrastructure capable of providing power-on-demand to all subscribers. Just because a customer becomes self-sufficient for a while does not relieve them of this requirement. People sell to new owners, generating systems break down etc..
 
I thought he was talking about the U.S. it the fact that utilities have failed to provide a truly reliable service that is not antiquated means they have failed. Even if you wanted to go completely off grid they will not let you.
 
I was referring specifically to Australia, but the attitudes are the same in most places... a ( admittedly modern) essential service, priced as high as they can without too much winging from the population...
 
is where most of the misunderstanding comes from- 'our energy bills have only a 20% energy component'
Yes this is an important point.
In California one of the other non energy charges is a DWP bond charge which goes back to 2000 when the State used the DWP borrowing power to raise funds to bail out the utilities that hit by the Enron scheme to jack up wholesale prices.
 
It is all in how you account for "costs" of operation.
You can engineer any "profit" you want.
Public companies often engineer higher profits to drive their stock up. A regulated monopoly would want to engineer profits down to the allowable amount, while enjoying high cash flow attributed to things like "depreciation" and anything else beneficial to them.
 
, please continue to believe that...
I tend to believe audited numbers published in financial statements. There is a difference between Revenue an profit. As I pointed out earlier the term "they make billions" is meaningless if you do not know how to read a financial statement.
 
We agree with you all, this is the frontier to true viability of solar and self-sufficiency: we must discover and promote the energy storage tech needed to make the concept as affordable as possible and then regain momentum in the personal energy generation revolution.

#yestechnologycan
 
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One can only hope.

 
I tend to believe audited numbers published in financial statements. There is a difference between Revenue an profit. As I pointed out earlier the term "they make billions" is meaningless if you do not know how to read a financial statement.
problem is these entities publish these numbers and, in Australia anyways, there is no trustworthy independent auditors... all grubberment run...

example, recently as I mentioned earlier, the accc ( Australia's " independent" auditors) did a audit into both gouging and corruption, both were found and " suggestions " made... prices etc. did not change, as I would be surprised if any thing was taken seriously... oh forgot to mention, they did give most accounts a " 50 buck offset " to eligible bills ... but funny enough, the bills still got higher... like I said, believe it if you want...
 
but come on, 300 million a year.. again, your very welcome to believe that,
AGL is not a distributor. They are a generator and a retailer. But anyhoo, we move on.

Since you bring up AGL, in 2020/21 they made a LOSS of $2.65 Billion. Still not seeing these billions of dollars they are making.


just a quick google search
Yeah, a "quick google search" is superior to an assessment of actual published financial reports. Not.

It took me all of about 15 seconds reading that ABC news article to see the perennial purveyor of energy sector hyperbole, Bruce Mountain, was the source of the claims. That's all I needed to know the item really wasn't worth reading.

It's pretty typical of ABC news items over the last decade when it comes to energy sector reporting. They just have so little technical understanding of the sector they have no capacity to filter out the nonsense, so they end up giving a loud hailer to a few specific "experts". In their defence though they wouldn't have the staff budget to have someone competent in such matters and their reporting is not overly laced with ideological positions unlike the hideous world of News Corp. ABC is just misguided.
 
Just surfed through the 10 Pages, all I can say is OIVEY !
To put it simply, I am 100% OFF GRID, I am NOT an Indentured Servant to Corporate Entities who profit by holding one hostage to them.
It cost me less to go Offgrid with batteries than to run it up here. Therefore it made tremendous sense (20K versus almost 60K for grid) but not everyone is in that situation.

Reality is, that Big Power Co wants to keep folks attached "to the wire" for their profit and they do look at it over the "Long Haul", sadly many people do not look at their homes / energy systems in that same way. Fortunately the cost of Batteries is falling and will continue to do so, especially as Domestic Manufacture of LFP is commencing worldwide in 2022.

By 2025, it is more than likely all new homes built will also come with some form of Solar + Battery Storage to some level. Even new apartment buildings will more than likely come with "building level" or "Unit Level" energy storage of some sort. Rentals vs Condo's will most likely be handled differently.

Self Generation & Storage - Freedom & Independence !
The more "External Dependencies" you can free yourself from the more free & independent you are.
Be aware that Big Power is FEARFUL of Profit Loss (As they ought to be) and will do pretty much anything to retain their indentured payors. They have published & produce a LOT of Bull Hooey well splashed with Fear Mongering and Chicken Little-isms which sadly too many believe. Fear being the best tool for manipulating masses, works without fail on usually 1/3rd of those who hear it.
 
Self Generation & Storage - Freedom & Independence !
The more "External Dependencies" you can free yourself from the more free & independent you are.
Are you manufacturing all your own equipment? If not then you've kind of traded one set of dependencies for another.
 
AGL is not a distributor. They are a generator and a retailer. But anyhoo, we move on.

Since you bring up AGL, in 2020/21 they made a LOSS of $2.65 Billion. Still not seeing these billions of dollars they are making.



Yeah, a "quick google search" is superior to an assessment of actual published financial reports. Not.

It took me all of about 15 seconds reading that ABC news article to see the perennial purveyor of energy sector hyperbole, Bruce Mountain, was the source of the claims. That's all I needed to know the item really wasn't worth reading.

It's pretty typical of ABC news items over the last decade when it comes to energy sector reporting. They just have so little technical understanding of the sector they have no capacity to filter out the nonsense, so they end up giving a loud hailer to a few specific "experts". In their defence though they wouldn't have the staff budget to have someone competent in such matters and their reporting is not overly laced with ideological positions unlike the hideous world of News Corp. ABC is just misguided.
distributor / generator , does it matter whether they are the big entities, or the bigger entities, they all profit from the same thing... lol, again, your welcome to believe they ran at a loss... I'm sure there is some angle they were playing at, you know the whole GM thing when holden was " going under " so got a big bail out, yet shut the doors anyway and moved production overseas anyway... yeah, nothing sus ... I was making the point of my " quick google search " to confirm the obvious, even the so called independent auditors ( accc ) found price gouging and corruption, its easy for anyone with half a brain to know these entities are in it for whatever profit they can get to the point of people whinging.. but again I reiterate, your welcome to believe they have nothing but the best intentions and only take what they really need... ( no sarcasm font sorry)
 
your welcome to believe
You're, not your.

There is no need to have "belief" about well established facts. Facts don't care about belief, they just are.

But since you fail to "believe" the audited published financials of public corporations and are unable to provide any evidence to the contrary, what exactly are we supposed to believe?

Obviously you have a beef with large organisations which seek to turn a profit. Is this a universal distaste for the way our economies work? I can only assume it's not given you are connected to the internet, most likely via a large service provider, using a device from a massive global corporation and perhaps drive a car from one of the world's major manufacturers.
 
Are you manufacturing all your own equipment? If not then you've kind of traded one set of dependencies for another.
In 2020 there were 19 Power Outages in this area, some lasted more than 3 days.
I sat on this ridge above the valley's below with my lights on and seeing only a few specs of light here & there from other Solar Installed folks. Some of those even being large dairy ops who've gotten sick of spoilage... (that is a crime to spoil all the milk really) Do you have ANY clue how much spoiled milk costs in such volumes and what is entailed ? Ohhh Myyy it ain't pretty !

So the Tradeoff in Dependencies is all relative, isn't it. Maybe find a Dairy Operator and ask them what they payout per year for Power for pumps, coolers etc... BE SEATED IF they decide to tell you, You will Fall Over in SHOCK !

This Year 2021, the regions also had a lot of power drops (dunno the count yet but it's high again) BUT now I see more lights in the valley's below, more panels installed with Battery Backup attached... In FACT, more folks are just going outright OFF GRID and disconnecting. We even have Amish (Mennonites) who never connect to the Grid installing Solar Power & Batteries... Seems they got over the hump and realized that this does not Bind Them to an External, quite the opposite as it reduces their use of Generators & Gasoline/Diesel to run them and they do use Gennies a LOT.

In any case, there is too much ridiculousness in this thread for me to add anymore to it.
Bottom Line, it is up to YOU the Individual to decide what is best for you and what serves your needs best for your circumstances. In 2021 WE HAVE OPTIONS that never existed previously (well not at any reasonable cost anyway). You Have FREEDOM OF CHOICE and the moment a Corporate wants to quash that "Freedom to Choose" you've found an Enemy to deal with.
 
In 2020 there were 19 Power Outages in this area, some lasted more than 3 days.
We average a dozen grid outages a year. Longest was a bit over 2 days but that could readily be longer. It's why I have backup (an off-grid solar PV/battery system + generator for redundancy).

I don't blame the energy distributor for poles and wires damaged in severe weather events causing longer outages. It's just a fact of life.

Heck there's every possibility such weather events can knock out an off-grid system given they can bring down trees on houses and remove rooftops / severely damage buildings.

Any business operating in such an outage prone area and which is dependent on electrical energy supply to operate/avoid damage would do well to have backup. Most businesses in that category near me do. My neighbouring property has a 125kW backup generator and a 4000 litre LPG tank.

But grid supply outages per se are not necessarily a reason to to go completely off-grid. They might be a contributing factor but on its own I don't think so.

For us setting up backup and staying on grid is WAY cheaper than going full off-grid.

And frankly, any decent off-grid set up will also incorporate a backup source of energy, same as if you are on grid.
 
You're, not your.

There is no need to have "belief" about well established facts. Facts don't care about belief, they just are.

But since you fail to "believe" the audited published financials of public corporations and are unable to provide any evidence to the contrary, what exactly are we supposed to believe?

Obviously you have a beef with large organisations which seek to turn a profit. Is this a universal distaste for the way our economies work? I can only assume it's not given you are connected to the internet, most likely via a large service provider, using a device from a massive global corporation and perhaps drive a car from one of the world's major manufacturers.
ok, Ill clarify what I mean and why I have no faith in any of those supposed " facts ", I have nothing against a company making a FAIR profit.. however just as a example, you know those glossy environmental brochures that big energy companies put out, beautiful pics of the bush with clean running streams, there going to save the endangered bilby ( again no sarcasm font sorry) etc... I used to work for qgc about 10 years ago, in miles / wondoan area ( surat basin by memory) worked machinery on the roads to the gas wells on people's properties.. I tell you now, NOTHING like that, the way we were told to treat both the people and the environment was completely different. one site we were working on this new cruiser turned up, stopped on a ridge and sat for all of 5 mins, then left... I asked my forman who that was at smoko, looked pretty important, he proceeded to tell me its the " environmental blokes " , they pick em fresh outta uni, big hecs debt, pay em lots and they have there own driver ( seriously, they wanted to go into roma at 2am to party he/she has to drive em) with all the trimmings, so we can basically do whatever we want and they sign off on it ( which we did), being no audit process other than protesters or a over enthusiastic regulator ( mind you we are hundreds of k's from anywhere, so very doubtful) comes by, the company can say " they are all approved " and are " compliant with all recommendations " lol, even now when the news reports how some mining / energy company is in the swill again for being caught doing something wrong, and of course they whip out the " we have our environment reports " and are doing great by them.. oh thats not all, we had to sign a form when I started that job to say that even if we " found something important " ( paraphrasing of course) we were not to report it outside of company representatives or instant dismissal... still remember this tree stump we dug up, was deep and about 50 meters wide!!, clearly been through a volcanic eruption or some sorts and was incredibly well preserved, as it was broken up into a loader, I noticed there was still bits that were green !! imagine the archeological value, yet no one dared say anything cause you would lose your job... stopping million dollar machinery for something as trivial as that, the audacity...plenty of other things I saw working for them, never again, left that well paying job because I couldn't be part of that anymore it was disgusting... so yes, your welcome to link all the well prepared reports all you want, believe em too, personal experience has told me they are lying, cheating scum, that have rigged the game to suit themselves and boy they are rich and good at it...
 
I thought he was talking about the U.S
I tend to believe audited numbers published in financial statements. There is a difference between Revenue an profit. As I pointed out earlier the term "they make billions" is meaningless if you do not know how to read a financial statement.

The statement is not wrong and as far as statements go Enron and Bernie Madoff come to mind, both were experts at cooking the books.
 
Are you manufacturing all your own equipment? If not then you've kind of traded one set of dependencies for another.
One cannot be dependent when you buy something, we all have become independent of a monthly reoccurring charge, with lack luster performance.
 
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