diy solar

diy solar

Future of DIY LiFePO4 looks bleak…

Good stuff! Seems like there ought to be a thread dedicated to diy alternatives to the rack batteries with components listed.

The thing with DIY is that everyone builds a pack for their specific needs. There are quite a few threads on there discussing people's builds, and why they built it that way. It's pretty hard to have a 'standard' that compares to off-the-shelf offerings and provides a direct alternative. This even flows directly from the discussion above: if you need 15kWh, you spec a 15kWh pack - not 3 x 5kWh.
 
Tom,
On your battery system, how much did it cost?
.....

So folks my question is.

Can DIY build a:
- 100 amp 48v
- encased battery box (ok, lets make this optional but would be nice)
- BMS with either bluetooth or RS-485
- pre-charge resistor
- (edit) and some kind of LED or OLED Display
- Circuit breaker

For under $1500 + $200 shipping for a total of $1700?

Not including tools

Are you up to this challenge? Can you link to the part numbers, models, prices, availability?

Because I want to know if I should buy either 15kwh in another 3x EGLL or DIY...

Let's see what we can do! I'm even interested in a small bet, in $, directly or donated to a charity, if you can do it. Must have part #, price, availability. And can be delivered in 20-30 days.
The other question is, for the $1700 can you warranty it for 10 years and have an expert available to call when things go wrong? Or are you SOL and can only count on yourself? And as I've said before, is the time to assemble it worth any monetary value? Is the material stocked from USA and you get it in a week for these prices? Gotta make this apples to apples.
 
The other question is, for the $1700 can you warranty it for 10 years and have an expert available to call when things go wrong? Or are you SOL and can only count on yourself? And as I've said before, is the time to assemble it worth any monetary value? Is the material stocked from USA and you get it in a week for these prices? Gotta make this apples to apples.

What happens if the company you bought it from disappears (because of increasing competition) in the next 5 years and things break? Can you still fix it with those cells being welded? And yes, all the items except for the BMS I mentioned in my post can be had in the States right now within a week or so at the prices I mentioned (and there are other BMSs I could have used that are available in the States). You could even buy a spare BMS just in case. The time you spent putting it together is the time you spent learning how to fix it when it breaks.

For those of us not in the States, it's even more moot since they're not even available here in the first place.
 
The other question is, for the $1700 can you warranty it for 10 years and have an expert available to call when things go wrong? Or are you SOL and can only count on yourself? And as I've said before, is the time to assemble it worth any monetary value? Is the material stocked from USA and you get it in a week for these prices? Gotta make this apples to apples.
After so many bad warranty support experiences from major companies like Trojan, I personally can't put a lot of value or trust into a warranty especially for such a long period for a heavy or complex product like lifepo4 batteries.
 
After so many bad warranty support experiences from major companies like Trojan, I personally can't put a lot of value or trust into a warranty especially for such a long period for a heavy or complex product like lifepo4 batteries.
So many reasons for them to say "you broke it". Or "do you have 7 years of detailed charge records"?
 
Let's assume we want to create a 15kWh 48V battery, since I don't have current pricing on smaller cells.

1) Cells:
- I'm using this post as a reference for cells in the US. One 280Ah = $147 delivered from Texas.
- To get around 15kWh at 48V, we need 16 of these, so $2352.
2) BMS with Bluetooth and RS485 and I'll take the 200A version: $215 shipped. Should make it in 30 days
3) Precharge resistor and push button: $50 or so including shipping, don't know - round it up to $100, get a few of them.
4) BMS display - get it together with the BMS, $25
5) Breaker, let's go big. 250A version, $142, and I think they have free shipping.

Total: $2834

Since this is 3x your original battery capacity, divide this by three and you get $944, including shipping, per 5kWh. Note that this isn't even the cheapest one you could build, you probably get the cells slightly cheaper as well since you'd buy 16 instead of 4 in the original post.

I'll leave the box up to you. Some plywood would do, or whatever you want.
or.. Buy a seplos bms which includes precharge and bms display and is compatible with most major Inverter vendors...
total cost 215 USD shipped would save another 75 USD
 
I didn't read all the prior pages as I'm boondocking on a cell connection so maybe this was asked/answered....

Does everyone use the 3.2v cell voltage to calc Ah? My 2x 280Ah would then be 7168Wh? That would make the raw component (cells&bms) cost 1125/7168=15.7c and probably another 1-2c in plywood & cabling.
 
The other question is, for the $1700 can you warranty it for 10 years and have an expert available to call when things go wrong? Or are you SOL and can only count on yourself? And as I've said before, is the time to assemble it worth any monetary value? Is the material stocked from USA and you get it in a week for these prices? Gotta make this apples to apples.
Expert in what exactly?
 
The other question is, for the $1700 can you warranty it for 10 years and have an expert available to call when things go wrong? Or are you SOL and can only count on yourself? And as I've said before, is the time to assemble it worth any monetary value? Is the material stocked from USA and you get it in a week for these prices? Gotta make this apples to apples.
That was why I bought my batteries Pre Built and I am very happy with them. The customer support is excellent and their local dealer has parts and spares. He has guaranteed me that can get me up and running within 24 hours if something goes wrong. It is not hard to find companies that will almost certainly be around in 10 Years. I think most of them will not only be around but be much bigger in 10 years. Sales of Solar Equipment is going up almost exponentially every year.
 
But only if you have space for a 15kWh pack. If you only have space for 3 x 5kWh packs that changes everything. ?
True. As is the reverse. Design will definitely depend on one's specific scenario. But in the abstract, it should be easier to find a way to fit a DIY system of a given size since form and configuration are somewhat flexible as opposed to OTS available in one or two shapes/sizes. For the purpose of this challenge lets assume both fit.

The other question is, for the $1700 can you warranty it for 10 years and have an expert available to call when things go wrong? Or are you SOL and can only count on yourself?
This is definitely one important tradeoff and one of the biggest advantages of buying an OTS solution from a reputable company with a long track record and demonstrated commitment to standing behind their warranty. BUT this strongly depends on the bolded text being true, many/most OTS options are relatively to extremely new, not much is known about the companies themselves, and it remains to be seen (1) if they will be around for 5 years let alone 10 years and (2) if they will honor the warranty in good faith, and there may or may not be adequately trained tech support available, will the person on the other end be an 'expert' or an underpaid customer service rep stretched too thin. Buying OTS does not gaurantee any of these things.

Point being, warranty and support are huge factors in favor of OTS options from reputable businesses, but I wouldn't assume most budget OTS options, drop-in replacements etc, will have anywhere close to the level of support mentioned above. So I think the distinction here is not primarily between DIY and OTS, but between quality OTS from reputable brands that stand behind their products, vs unknown quality OTS solutions from unknown or unproven or shady sellers. Buying from a seller that you trust knows what they sell, that you trust to be around for some time, that is in a similar business/sales/legal culture and speaks the same language, and stands behind their products is often worth paying a price premium for.

And as I've said before, is the time to assemble it worth any monetary value?
The narrower and narrower the price difference becomes, the less people will find it worth their time and money. I think we may already be seeing that shift to some degree. Just 2-3 years ago, people were basically forced to go the DIY route (or stick to lead acid) whether they wanted to or not if they couldn't pony up at least a few thousand dollars for just the batteries of a relatively small system. Today that calculation is much much different. And the growing popularity of things like Growatt, the EG4, and the newer budget drop-ins is evidence to me that many people (most probably) would prefer not to DIY any more than they have to and are mostly motivated by cost. I think there is a subset of people though--especially among the early forum members--who were drawn specifically to the DIY approach, not just on the grounds of cost, but flexibility, and to some extent just being 'DIY types' who enjoy learning and building and tinkering and having command and responsibility over their system.

Is the material stocked from USA and you get it in a week for these prices?
This is a real and significant tradeoff
But I would point out is a separate issue from OTS vs DIY. WIth a few exceptions all the components are coming from China, a few may be assembled in your home country, more may be stocked in your home country (OTS or Raw Cells) and a few may be sold by businesses local to your home country. But this isn't really a DIY vs OTS distinction, both OTS and Raw Cells can be bought direct from China at a discount with more risk and more wait, or bought from US suppliers (like yourself, ECPC, or Overkillsolar for instance) or from Chinese suppliers with US warehouses.
 
This is definitely one important tradeoff and one of the biggest advantages of buying an OTS solution from a reputable company with a long track record and demonstrated commitment to standing behind their warranty. BUT this strongly depends on the bolded text being true, many/most OTS options are relatively to extremely new, not much is known about the companies themselves, and it remains to be seen (1) if they will be around for 5 years let alone 10 years and (2) if they will honor the warranty in good faith, and there may or may not be adequately trained tech support available, will the person on the other end be an 'expert' or an underpaid customer service rep stretched too thin. Buying OTS does not gaurantee any of these things.
--- SNIP---
This is all true but the fact is that we do have many A+ battery pack manufacturers/suppliers that have been around for awhile and their sales and businesses have been growing year after year. There might have been some back and forth with Green Energy in the past but if anything we now have confirmation based on all the favorable legislation that the last Administration put in place for Fossil fuel companies and then the lack of interest on most companies parts to take on that long term investement in Fossil fuel plus the Global and home grown backlash to this, we know that this fossil fuel road is not going to go much further in terms of long term investments.
If your sitting on a company that is Solar related, your looking at a very bright future for at least the next 30 years. As you said there may be mergers and I suspect that there are going to be major changes to electrical code and standards for solar, but none the less I doubt that anyone with a half way decent business plan is going to go bankrupt.
 
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This is all true but the fact is that we do have many A+ battery pack manufacturers/suppliers that have been around for awhile and their sales and businesses have been growing year after year.
I agree, those options are there, but for each of those there are many that are relatively new or unheard of with short or unknown track records. The point I was trying to make is that you can't really generalize DIY this OTS that, when it comes to support/warranty/etc, the differences within the OTS market can be at least as big as the differences between the OTS and DIY markets in many ways. I'm definitely not trying to imply there are no good OTS companies/options, or that either DIY or OTS are better or worse than the other, I am agnostic on this (different strokes, different folks).

If your sitting on a company that is Solar related, your looking at a very bright future for at least the next 30 years. As you said there may be mergers and I suspect that there are going to be major changes to electrical code and standards for solar, but none the less I doubt that anyone with a half way decent business plan is going to go bankrupt.
To an extent I agree, but not necessarily, I think the industry as a whole has a very bright future, and it certainly would be a great time to be in this field. But at the same time, there is also a lot of churn and competition and creative destruction I think among the small and emerging companies in this market, and possibly with existing companies that don't remain nimble. Especially when looking at the extreme budget consumer facing end of the market which is where a lot of attention on this forum is focused.
 
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