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Sol-Ark 15K All in One Inverter Released.

I remember the debate that raged in another (longtime) DIY Solar Power Forum thread on who "borrowed", or licensed, or whatevered from whom. I really hope your assertions are correct. Especially the firmware part. I seem to remember assertions (either in this forum or another) that the actual firmware updates are downloaded from servers in PRC.

(The following pertains more to the post of "mvonw" re Sol-Ark's use of servers in the PRC, but also follows-on my above comments.)
Now, having spent an extensive career in software development (Bell Labs/AT&T/Lucent, HP, & back to AT&T Research), with a non-trivial portion of it in various security capacities, I am well aware of at least some of the various methods that nefarious organizations (public or private) can use to reverse engineer software, firmware, and/or hardware to insert back doors, etc. It would be nice to know if Sol-Ark run tests (e.g., CRC checksums) to verify that all software, firmware, etc, are exactly as specified. I don't really care if President Xi and his minions in the PRC know I use, say, an average of 27.9kWh/day of PV generated electricity with an 18.5 kWh LFP ESS. I *do* care if they know the MAC and/or IP address of my inverter, and whether or not they have a back door ready to send a "destruct" code or "run wild" code (remember Stuxnet?) just when I need my solar/ESS system the most (possibly after the PRC, Russia, North Korea, Iran, ... launches an attack on our power grid because they didn't like our response to their invasion of Taiwan, Ukraine, South Korea, ??? (maybe all at or near the same time)). I realize that many of the hybrid grid-tied battery charger inverters are made in the PRC. I am also aware that other countries can steal IP and insert back doors. But I am not *nearly* as concerned about Israel (SolarEdge) or Germany (Fronius), or other (mostly) "friendly" countries as I am about the openly hostile governments listed above. *Plus*, we *know* that the PRC *requires* corporations in the PRC to share customer data with the government. So ("mvonw"), unless you're in your 80's or 90's, unfortunately I am afraid you *will* live to see this issue become a reality. Now, whether or not you are still in your PV-powered home or some sort of assisted living facility (which hopefully - but not likely - will have taken steps to mitigate such occurrences so they have power to run whatever medical devices you may need), that is a different - but related - issue...

I really don't mean any of this to be a rant against Sol-Ark. I *really* want to be confident enough to buy from them. First, because they are an American company built and run by veterans, ostensibly helping other veterans any way they can. Second, by all accounts they have excellent customer service (at least after you purchase their product). Third, I still haven't heard a complaint that any of their hardware has failed. Fourth, they have practically all the features I care about and seem responsive to feature improvements (the 15K, their new SmartLoads panel, ESS agnostic, etc.). THE ONLY thing that gives me real pause about wholeheartedly selecting them is the PRC vulnerability (well, they're also more expensive, but you can rationalize the extra cost for the other positives). I dunno. I might hold my nose, go with Sol-Ark, and disconnect it from the Internet after initial commisioning (or just block any network traffic from certain IP address ranges) and try the cobbled-up LAN-based monitoring solution described in a different thread. And then hope Sol-Ark sees the light and addresses these security issues.

Oh, BTW, I thought of the only significant feature Sol-Ark - or anyone else (until now) - lacks: EV DC charging. I'm talking no conversion to AC first. I've seen some claims on other forums that SolarEdge does this, but SolarEdge's own "Smart EV Charger" data sheet indicates that its output is 240VAC. My research recently discovered the dcbel r16 inverter/EV charger. It is very new, lacks other features of Sol-Ark inverters, requires the inverter be close to the EV (within charging cable length), and isn't currently available in NJ (at least according their Web site tool when I input my info), but it shows that the technology exists. They describe the EV charger as a "Level 2.5" charger. Interesting stuff. My breaker panel (next to which I want to install the inside ba &( ESS) is on the other end of the (full, unfinished) basement from the (first) garage stall, so I don't know if the DC loss of a ~40 ft charging cable would preclude my layout from being able to make use of this capability, but if Sol-Ark could work this into the 15K, it would absolutely be *da bomb*.
They based on my last discussion with a Bob at sol-ark they are well aware of peoples fears.
It is something that they are going to change shortly.
Personally I am not really worried. Any kind of strike like that by China would mean that something a lot bigger is happening in the world.
 
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What Sol-Ark *should* be doing for updates (besides the current method for those willing to trust it) is giving customers the option to download some kind of (verified) executable from a *U.S.-based* server (hopefully at their new site in Plano, TX) onto their PC/laptop/tablet/smartphone, and support some way to install & run that executable on the inverter (via microSD, or over a local LAN) to update the firmware.
I don't see that happening. They are actively making sure that the all newer Firmware stays out of Deye's hands.
I believe it is encoded for each devices serial number before it is sent out over the internet.
 
I remember the debate that raged in another (longtime) DIY Solar Power Forum thread on who "borrowed", or licensed, or whatevered from whom. I really hope your assertions are correct. Especially the firmware part. I seem to remember assertions (either in this forum or another) that the actual firmware updates are downloaded from servers in PRC.

(The following pertains more to the post of "mvonw" re Sol-Ark's use of servers in the PRC, but also follows-on my above comments.)
Now, having spent an extensive career in software development (Bell Labs/AT&T/Lucent, HP, & back to AT&T Research), with a non-trivial portion of it in various security capacities, I am well aware of at least some of the various methods that nefarious organizations (public or private) can use to reverse engineer software, firmware, and/or hardware to insert back doors, etc. It would be nice to know if Sol-Ark run tests (e.g., CRC checksums) to verify that all software, firmware, etc, are exactly as specified. I don't really care if President Xi and his minions in the PRC know I use, say, an average of 27.9kWh/day of PV generated electricity with an 18.5 kWh LFP ESS. I *do* care if they know the MAC and/or IP address of my inverter, and whether or not they have a back door ready to send a "destruct" code or "run wild" code (remember Stuxnet?) just when I need my solar/ESS system the most (possibly after the PRC, Russia, North Korea, Iran, ... launches an attack on our power grid because they didn't like our response to their invasion of Taiwan, Ukraine, South Korea, ??? (maybe all at or near the same time)). I realize that many of the hybrid grid-tied battery charger inverters are made in the PRC. I am also aware that other countries can steal IP and insert back doors. But I am not *nearly* as concerned about Israel (SolarEdge) or Germany (Fronius), or other (mostly) "friendly" countries as I am about the openly hostile governments listed above. *Plus*, we *know* that the PRC *requires* corporations in the PRC to share customer data with the government. So ("mvonw"), unless you're in your 80's or 90's, unfortunately I am afraid you *will* live to see this issue become a reality. Now, whether or not you are still in your PV-powered home or some sort of assisted living facility (which hopefully - but not likely - will have taken steps to mitigate such occurrences so they have power to run whatever medical devices you may need), that is a different - but related - issue...

I really don't mean any of this to be a rant against Sol-Ark. I *really* want to be confident enough to buy from them. First, because they are an American company built and run by veterans, ostensibly helping other veterans any way they can. Second, by all accounts they have excellent customer service (at least after you purchase their product). Third, I still haven't heard a complaint that any of their hardware has failed. Fourth, they have practically all the features I care about and seem responsive to feature improvements (the 15K, their new SmartLoads panel, ESS agnostic, etc.). THE ONLY thing that gives me real pause about wholeheartedly selecting them is the PRC vulnerability (well, they're also more expensive, but you can rationalize the extra cost for the other positives). I dunno. I might hold my nose, go with Sol-Ark, and disconnect it from the Internet after initial commisioning (or just block any network traffic from certain IP address ranges) and try the cobbled-up LAN-based monitoring solution described in a different thread. And then hope Sol-Ark sees the light and addresses these security issues.

Oh, BTW, I thought of the only significant feature Sol-Ark - or anyone else (until now) - lacks: EV DC charging. I'm talking no conversion to AC first. I've seen some claims on other forums that SolarEdge does this, but SolarEdge's own "Smart EV Charger" data sheet indicates that its output is 240VAC. My research recently discovered the dcbel r16 inverter/EV charger. It is very new, lacks other features of Sol-Ark inverters, requires the inverter be close to the EV (within charging cable length), and isn't currently available in NJ (at least according their Web site tool when I input my info), but it shows that the technology exists. They describe the EV charger as a "Level 2.5" charger. Interesting stuff. My breaker panel (next to which I want to install the inverter & ESS) is on the other end of the (full, unfinished) basement from the (first) garage stall, so I don't know if the DC loss of a ~40 ft charging cable would preclude my layout from being able to make use of this capability, but if Sol-Ark could work this into the 15K, it would absolutely be *da bomb*.
I am 60 and own a software company doing DOD contracting. I am personally IAM and IAP level III certified. I work with with many engineers way more qualified than me (I'm the old guy now), and they laugh when discussed my inverter being compromised. If China attacks my inverter, I think we have a lot bigger issues, but I respect your opinion.
 
I saw a video from David Poz showing a Sol-Ark 12k overloading with the start of a chop saw. I saw him also demonstrate an LVX6048 which did start the chop saw and other equipment. I am wondering if the new Sol-Ark 15k will start those loads ok? It would be great if it could.
 
I saw a video from David Poz showing a Sol-Ark 12k overloading with the start of a chop saw. I saw him also demonstrate an LVX6048 which did start the chop saw and other equipment. I am wondering if the new Sol-Ark 15k will start those loads ok? It would be great if it could.
The Sol-Ark only has that problem in off-grid mode. You can't get L1 and L2 out of balance by I think it's 1300w but a transformer will really help balance the loads, and once again, that's ONLY in off grid mode. If there's grid power you'll never know about that issue.

But yeah, I am curious about the 15k and that issue too.
 
The Sol-Ark only has that problem in off-grid mode. You can't get L1 and L2 out of balance by I think it's 1300w but a transformer will really help balance the loads, and once again, that's ONLY in off grid mode. If there's grid power you'll never know about that issue.

But yeah, I am curious about the 15k and that issue too.
No it’s 4500. David didn’t bother to upgrade the firmware first before he tested it.

Whole long thread on that piece of theater.
 
I saw a video from David Poz showing a Sol-Ark 12k overloading with the start of a chop saw. I saw him also demonstrate an LVX6048 which did start the chop saw and other equipment. I am wondering if the new Sol-Ark 15k will start those loads ok? It would be great if it could.
It was a piece of Theater by David Poz to discredit Sol-Ark for his Sponsor and Sol-Ark competitor Signature Solar.
 
No it’s 4500. David didn’t bother to upgrade the firmware first before he tested it.

Whole long thread on that piece of theater.
No, it's 4800 with a grid supply, 1400 with no grid. I just asked sol-ark about this maybe 3 weeks ago and they didn't say a word about any update fixing it.
Can you link to the thread you're talking about?

EDIT: I looked up my emails to sol-ark support, had the exact numbers off.
 
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The Sol-Ark only has that problem in off-grid mode. You can't get L1 and L2 out of balance by I think it's 1300w but a transformer will really help balance the loads, and once again, that's ONLY in off grid mode. If there's grid power you'll never know about that issue.

But yeah, I am curious about the 15k and that issue too.
My guess is the 15k will have a similar issue, but with a higher threshold. If this is a concern with either unit, add an autotransformer, but know it will drop your efficiency a little and increase the idle consumption.
 
No, it's 4800 with a grid supply, 1400 with no grid. I just asked sol-ark about this maybe 3 weeks ago and they didn't say a word about any update fixing it.
Can you link to the thread you're talking about?

EDIT: I looked up my emails to sol-ark support, had the exact numbers off.
Dude I have two of them. It’s 4500 on one leg with the current firmware. I’ve done it just to see.
 
No, it's 4800 with a grid supply, 1400 with no grid. I just asked sol-ark about this maybe 3 weeks ago and they didn't say a word about any update fixing it.
Can you link to the thread you're talking about?

EDIT: I looked up my emails to sol-ark support, had the exact numbers off.
I have seen at least 3000 Watts with my Grid turned off during my first testing phase.
As for the firmware update that fixed the issue, that was done a long time ago so maybe the Tech does not even know about it. Most of the Techs at Sol-Ark have only been there since they moved to Texas about 6 months ago.
Poz was using the one of the original firmware releases which he refused to update because he knew it would ruin his plan. Sol-Ark even told him in the comments section to update the firmware.

BTW you might be misunderstanding something. As you go higher up in load the amount of allowed imbalance drops. In his video he got near to 4800W on one leg and then tripped the Inverter.
At the end of the day if your still worried then take @Wet1 advice and spend the extra $300 and buy a Autotransformer. At least with the Sol-Ark you don't have to worry about the Neutral wire falling off and burning up everything in the house.
As for me I am not willing to take the extra energy loss for something that is not even an issue. There are a lot of Sol-Ark users on this forum and I have not heard anyone else complaining about it either.
 
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They based on my last discussion with a Bob at sol-ark they are well aware of peoples fears.
It is something that they are going to change shortly.
Personally I am not really worried. Any kind of strike like that by China would mean that something a lot bigger is happening in the world.
Well *that* (your first sentence) is certainly refreshing to hear (since they seem to have gone quiet on the subject since the very early days of the thread dedicated to the China-related issues). I hope it means they are aware of all 3 issues (manufacturing, firmware updates, & system monitoring).

Can you give a rough idea of what "shortly" means? I will start interviewing roofers/solar installers in the next few weeks. I guess I could make sure any possible Sol-Ark installers are interviewed last to buy me a little more time, but when I hear "soon", I keep reminding myself of items like SolarEdge's claim that backup generator support (via firmware update) was "pending" about a year or so ago, but the last I heard it was still "pending"...

Yes, I agree that a cyber attack on my inverter *might* indicate that there are much bigger issues for the world and/or the U.S. in play. But my response to that is twofold. First, a cyber attack on a certain subset of vulnerable products could be a "warning shot" fired by (in this case) China to dissuade us from certain actions (say, serious economic actions). In other words, "We just paralyzed your cell phones, phone networks, other convenience items, and X% of your power grid, as well as your solar capabilities (which will affect the ability of Y% of the population to perform their jobs): It would be a real shame if we unleashed a full cyber attack on *everything* that we know is vulnerable.". So The U.S. may back off actions that would trigger the "lot bigger" somethings. But I would still be screwed. Second, my motivations for going solar are threefold. Social responsibility (i.e., "climate change"), emergency preparedness/personal safety (from grid power loss due to our own stupidity, acts of nature, or acts of terror (economic, political, etc.)), and economic. I'm trying to do my homework, looking at all angles, and assembling all the credible information I can (and this forum is a significant part of that info, so thank you to all). There are limitations on what I can affect (see "lot bigger" somethings above). But choosing the right product to keep me and my wife safe if the power goes out in the dead of winter, or even being one of the voices reminding certain manufacturers that this is a non-trivial issue are two ways I *can* affect our (first, me an my wife, but also other customers) safety/security.

I am *not* some tin-foil hat prepper conspiracy theorist. I simply have a healthy, realistic lack of trust of 1) the capabilities and/or convictions of our government or corporations to do what is necessary to protect us, and 2) foreign governments/organizations who have proven that they are - to put it mildly - "antagonistic" to democracy in general, and the U.S. in particular. This lack of trust is a result of 67 years of personal research of the available science (for better or worse, I am an inveterate researcher: I have a need to know everything I reasonably can about a subject both before getting involved, and after), and the available *verifiable* social/political climate (and exactly *zero* of it comes from "social networks"; I stick to proven news/journalism organizations).

What does this have to do with the release of the Sol-Ark 15K? It plays a non-trivial part in my purchase decision, and I wanted to share my views with this august forum, both to add my voice to hopefully influence Sol-Ark's response, and to get valuable feedback from its obviously knowledgeable members. I respect all viewpoints, and I thank you and others for taking the time and effort to share yours.
 
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I am 60 and own a software company doing DOD contracting. I am personally IAM and IAP level III certified. I work with with many engineers way more qualified than me (I'm the old guy now), and they laugh when discussed my inverter being compromised. If China attacks my inverter, I think we have a lot bigger issues, but I respect your opinion.
Respect.

Please see latter three paragraphs of my response to robby's post immediately above. It pertains here as well.
 
I don't see that happening. They are actively making sure that the all newer Firmware stays out of Deye's hands.
I believe it is encoded for each devices serial number before it is sent out over the internet.
If by "...all newer Firmware stays out of Deye's hands" you mean that they take the *development, generation, and delivery* away from Deye and bring it all in-house (by Sol-Ark employees and physical (*not* cloud) servers inside the U.S.), I am encouraged.

But your latter sentence describes more of an "authorization" security scheme. In other words, it is designed to make sure that certain inverters are *authorized* to receive an update (keeping Deye inverters from getting the latest updates, but not protecting Sol-Ark inverters from compromised firmware.

So, just to clarify, I guess the question is: Are you saying that they (Sol-Ark) are actively taking actions to move development, generation, and delivery of future firmware updates in-house by Sol-Ark employees and physical (*not* cloud) servers inside the U.S.? If so, again, I am pleased.

But I still *much* prefer a "pull" update mechanism rather than a "push". It's like Windows Update. I *never* have any software updates (other than anti-virus) performed automatically. I usually wait a month or three and check various forums or do Web searches to see what they may have screwed up in an attempt to fix something (or inserted some annoying or invasive function without informing users). If I find no untoward effects, I download the update(s) and install them. This has saved me mucho headaches in the past. Oh yeah: and *never* install a major release of Windows until "Service Pack 1" is available.
 
If by "...all newer Firmware stays out of Deye's hands" you mean that they take the *development, generation, and delivery* away from Deye and bring it all in-house (by Sol-Ark employees and physical (*not* cloud) servers inside the U.S.), I am encouraged.

But your latter sentence describes more of an "authorization" security scheme. In other words, it is designed to make sure that certain inverters are *authorized* to receive an update (keeping Deye inverters from getting the latest updates, but not protecting Sol-Ark inverters from compromised firmware.

So, just to clarify, I guess the question is: Are you saying that they (Sol-Ark) are actively taking actions to move development, generation, and delivery of future firmware updates in-house by Sol-Ark employees and physical (*not* cloud) servers inside the U.S.? If so, again, I am pleased.

But I still *much* prefer a "pull" update mechanism rather than a "push". It's like Windows Update. I *never* have any software updates (other than anti-virus) performed automatically. I usually wait a month or three and check various forums or do Web searches to see what they may have screwed up in an attempt to fix something (or inserted some annoying or invasive function without informing users). If I find no untoward effects, I download the update(s) and install them. This has saved me mucho headaches in the past. Oh yeah: and *never* install a major release of Windows until "Service Pack 1" is available.
Sol-Ark does all the firmware coding themselves in the USA.
They do not push updates on users. You either have to go online and schedule an update or call them and they will update the unit while you are on the phone with them or schedule a specific time when you want it done.

The update is coming from their headquarters in Texas. As far as I know it is an encoded update using your serial number and it cannot be sent or uploaded to a DEYE inverter.
 
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Well *that* (your first sentence) is certainly refreshing to hear (since they seem to have gone quiet on the subject since the very early days of the thread dedicated to the China-related issues). I hope it means they are aware of all 3 issues (manufacturing, firmware updates, & system monitoring).

Can you give a rough idea of what "shortly" means? I will start interviewing roofers/solar installers in the next few weeks. I guess I could make sure any possible Sol-Ark installers are interviewed last to buy me a little more time, but when I hear "soon", I keep reminding myself of items like SolarEdge's claim that backup generator support (via firmware update) was "pending" about a year or so ago, but the last I heard it was still "pending"...
In The discussion I had there was no specific date told to me. They said it was a priority and that it was already being worked on.
Yes, I agree that a cyber attack on my inverter *might* indicate that there are much bigger issues for the world and/or the U.S. in play. But my response to that is twofold. First, a cyber attack on a certain subset of vulnerable products could be a "warning shot" fired by (in this case) China to dissuade us from certain actions (say, serious economic actions). In other words, "We just paralyzed your cell phones, phone networks, other convenience items, and X% of your power grid, as well as your solar capabilities (which will affect the ability of Y% of the population to perform their jobs): It would be a real shame if we unleashed a full cyber attack on *everything* that we know is vulnerable.". So The U.S. may back off actions that would trigger the "lot bigger" somethings. But I would still be screwed. Second, my motivations for going solar are threefold. Social responsibility (i.e., "climate change"), emergency preparedness/personal safety (from grid power loss due to our own stupidity, acts of nature, or acts of terror (economic, political, etc.)), and economic. I'm trying to due my homework, looking at all angles, and assembling all the credible information I can (and this forum is a significant part of that info, so thank you to all). There are limitations on what I can affect (see "lot bigger" somethings above). But choosing the right product to keep me and my wife safe if the power goes out in the dead of winter, or even being one of the voices reminding certain manufacturers that this is a non-trivial issue are two ways I *can* affect our (first, me an my wife, but also other customers) safety/security.
If China was going to declare Cyber war on the USA I don’t think solar would be a high priority. Their first targets would be large generator systems.
I am *not* some tin-foil hat prepper conspiracy theorist. I simply have a healthy, realistic lack of trust of 1) the capabilities and/or convictions of our government or corporations to do what is necessary to protect us, and 2) foreign governments/organizations who have proven that they are - to put it mildly - "antagonistic" to democracy in general, and the U.S. in particular. This lack of trust is a result of 67 years of personal research of the available science (for better or worse, I am an inveterate researcher: I have a need to know everything I reasonably can about a subject both before getting involved, and after), and the available *verifiable* social/political climate (and exactly *zero* of it comes from "social networks"; I stick to proven news/journalism organizations).

What does this have to do with the release of the Sol-Ark 15K? It plays a non-trivial part in my purchase decision, and I wanted to share my views with this august forum, both to add my voice to hopefully influence Sol-Ark's response, and to get valuable feedback from its obviously knowledgeable members. I respect all viewpoints, and I thank you and others for taking the time and effort to share yours.
 
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