diy solar

diy solar

Energy Conservation

Off topic,
While factually correct most of the deaths lowering the average age before about 1950 were children.
If you lived to age 15, you had the same chance of making 70 as those of us today (excluding war).
Socrates (399BC) died age 70, and that was from poison.
They might have lived that long, but what was quality of life? Were they crippled and unable to do anything? My wife's grandparents are 76 and 75 and her grandfather is a full time plumber with no issues. My own parents are in their 60s, just recently retired and they go hiking everyday and are in great physical shape.

Not to argue or anything. Im genuinely curious because I've never heard these stats. Nor have I looked into it
 
They might have lived that long, but what was quality of life? Were they crippled and unable to do anything? My wife's grandparents are 76 and 75 and her grandfather is a full time plumber with no issues. My own parents are in their 60s, just recently retired and they go hiking everyday and are in great physical shape.

Not to argue or anything. Im genuinely curious because I've never heard these stats. Nor have I looked into it
It's all here.

Study of historic figures vs modern day.
"Of 397 ancients in total, 99 died violently by murder, suicide or in battle. Of the remaining 298, those born before 100BC lived to a median age of 72 years. Those born after 100BC lived to a median age of 66. (The authors speculate that the prevalence of dangerous lead plumbing may have led to this apparent shortening of life).

The median of those who died between 1850 and 1949? Seventy-one years old – just one year less than their pre-100BC cohort."

As for 'quality of life', I've been locked up in my home for most of the past two years and forbidden to travel ......
When in the history of man has that ever happened?
 
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Little stuff can really add up, even stuff that's "off" ... like, of all things, my LG mini-split. 40 watts even when all zones are *off* !!!
Add in my dish hopper 3, joey, router, wifi, NAS, etc ...
I started by flipping breakers to narrow down stuff and then individual kill-a-watt readings or individually unplugging stuff. My "base" load is quite high as a result ... something like 7 kWh/day. And that's just an RV.
 
Last June everyone with grid tied solar got a letter saying we had 3 options…
So 12c / kWh which is pretty low.

The coerced sustainability of their business model feels heavy to me. Does their new policy negate existing net-metering policies? Per Dee apparently holds credits for 12mos according to website.
If you constantly produce with no net billable kWh and they hold kW credits it seems as though maintaining grid-tie is a fairly inexpensive battery.

What is I missin’?
 
I think air conditioning has also allowed people who wouldn't traditionally live in hot climates (or very specific locales) to live there.

I'll use some of the houses nearby me as an example. I live in Tennessee, and it definitely gets up to 100° sometimes. My house is somewhat in the woods, the shade keeps things cool for the most part, we still run air conditioning, but I could shut it off, go hang out under a tree and be just fine. Trees also keep the sun off the roof, and the house stays livable. Traditionally, this area was heavily wooded, and the indigenous people lived comfortably among the cool trees.

There's people (and family) down the road who have houses in the middle of huge empty grass and dirt fields, when you drive through the area you can FEEL the heat blowing around. Sitting on the back porch is miserable, even the breeze is hot. Every piece of dark colored plastic and metal left outside turns into a branding iron. But, they like living on a golf course, and the price they pay is constantly having to run AC and fans to keep the house cool in the direct sun. They are also elderly and unhealthy, and without the AC, they would probably have a VERY rough time.

I can't speak for them, but they are the kind of people who would definitely say "I NEED AC to live". That might be true for their current living choices, but if they couldn't handle the heat in a time before AC, they wouldn't have chosen a house like that. So yes, NOW they NEED to have AC, but they don't actually NEED it, period.

You also get used to not having AC. I chose to live in the woods for just over a year in the Virginia wilderness when I was 18, no AC, no electricity, and no gas. The first few weeks of summer sucks, but your body adapts pretty quickly, and before long, anything other than direct sun feels cool.
 
I don't know about the facts on this, just another thought.

Do laptops waste energy because the battery charger is always running?
Perhaps another conservation technique could be to remove the battery or disable the charger.
 
I don't know about the facts on this, just another thought.

Do laptops waste energy because the battery charger is always running?
Perhaps another conservation technique could be to remove the battery or disable the charger.
I keep my phone charger on a timer to save power (the timer uses fractionally less power than the charger in standby), and also to prolong the life of my phone battery by only charging for an hour and a half every night, rather than holding it at 100% until I wake up. You could probably do the same with a laptop.
 
Where I live, just in the last handful of years since the local weather station went in:
Highest Temperature 42.9 °C (109.2 °F) at 13:20 on 20 December 2017
Highest Heat Index 54.7 °C (130.5 °F) at 15:07 on 14 February 2018
 
NOW they NEED to have AC
Qualifying need is important to making sound decisions regarding necessity vs sacrifice. Once we tell ourselves the truth we no longer have to justify or make excuses for “luxuries” because we have chosen holistically.
I think that’s why when I read, “need” I become hyper aware of our fortunate circumstances of living in the United States. Being aware of true needs makes choosing “luxury” (no matter how easily one can afford any associated expense) feel more like a blessing of sorts. Which is very akin to thankfulness or gratefulness.

Rather than feeling ‘deprived’ or that somehow an injustice has been served us when we cannot have our perceived need, we instead can be satisfied with our position and more easily recognize true need in others, and grateful for our fortune when we are able to achieve comforts in life. This is the essence primarily of the society we are experiencing today in which people selling things are able to so readily exchange their new wizbah for people’s cash: the breeding of dissatisfaction with what one currently possesses.
Countries with lesser economic mobility and hotter climes seem to have less needs and requirements to survive than more fortunate populations.

Need is a funny word.
 
Qualifying need is important to making sound decisions regarding necessity vs sacrifice. Once we tell ourselves the truth we no longer have to justify or make excuses for “luxuries” because we have chosen holistically.
I think that’s why when I read, “need” I become hyper aware of our fortunate circumstances of living in the United States. Being aware of true needs makes choosing “luxury” (no matter how easily one can afford any associated expense) feel more like a blessing of sorts. Which is very akin to thankfulness or gratefulness.

Rather than feeling ‘deprived’ or that somehow an injustice has been served us when we cannot have our perceived need, we instead can be satisfied with our position and more easily recognize true need in others, and grateful for our fortune when we are able to achieve comforts in life. This is the essence primarily of the society we are experiencing today in which people selling things are able to so readily exchange their new wizbah for people’s cash: the breeding of dissatisfaction with what one currently possesses.
Countries with lesser economic mobility and hotter climes seem to have less needs and requirements to survive than more fortunate populations.

Need is a funny word.
I wish more folks would put forth the effort to understand their actual needs. We may not have so much waste and therefore a reduced need to conserve.
Nice one 12VoltInstalls, two for you (y) (y)

How to conserve:
Step 1) "Think"
 
I think that’s why when I read, “need” I become hyper aware of our fortunate circumstances of living in the United States. Being aware of true needs makes choosing “luxury” (no matter how easily one can afford any associated expense) feel more like a blessing of sorts. Which is very akin to thankfulness or gratefulness.
I see Tesla are asking customers not to charge their cars at peak time in Texas as it may take out the grid.
 
So 12c / kWh which is pretty low.

The coerced sustainability of their business model feels heavy to me. Does their new policy negate existing net-metering policies? Per Dee apparently holds credits for 12mos according to website.
If you constantly produce with no net billable kWh and they hold kW credits it seems as though maintaining grid-tie is a fairly inexpensive battery.

What is I missin’?
$0.12/kwh is pretty steep for around here. Last time I checked some folks were paying as little as $0.07 to $0.09 for residential service. $0.12 was high enough to make PV worthwhile where if I was paying $0.07 to $0.09 I probably wouldn’t have bothered.

My beef is that before I installed solar, my power bills were averaging around $55/month, more in the winter, less in the spring and fall but averaged out over the year $55 was about right. I used that year to calculate how much PV to install. In SC it’s against the law to sell our excess electricity so I sized the array pretty close so I wouldn’t be wasting any unused kWhs. It was great for the first year, most months were $0.00. Then they started charging a Meter Fee. First it was $12/mo , then $13, then $14 , then $17/mo and now with their current pricing scheme, I’m paying $45/month for every month that I don’t need to buy any grid power. Sure, for that fee they’ll continue to act as a 12 month battery bank begining June 1st each year, same as they did for the 8 years before their Pay-Per-PV-kW fee.

Summers are pretty warm here so I start off the year basically using all the power I generate but come fall I start banking the unused kWh. Then usually in January and February I use up those banked credits, sometimes needing to buy a few extra grid kWhs to get though late February. And by mid March I’m back to generating more than I use with the excess being credited to my account. Well, credited until midnight May 31 when all credits default back to zero and the new 12 month battery (net metering) year begins again.

Anyway, without solar my monthly bill was $55 and with this new Pay-Per-PV-kW fee my bill is $45.

So basically I bought and installed 5,000 watts of PV to save ten bucks a month on my light bill. Not exactly the ROI I was looking for.
 
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I’m paying $45/month for every month that I don’t need to buy any grid power.
$0.12/kwh is pretty steep for around here. Last time I checked some folks were paying as little as $0.07 to $0.09 for residential service.
So basically they aren’t charging you for power - they are penalizing you for being environmentally responsible in SC (I lived in Andersen SC for 9 months)- making you pay for the consequences of their inadequate rate structure.
SC it’s against the law to sell our excess electricity
Because that makes sense? That’s backwards. Broke thinking: so scared of loss that they won’t spend wisely.

Florida gets over half of its electricity from burning natural gas and a fifth from coal plants. It would seem the SC could export a lot of its hydro and adding some payback solar would make a profit if cabled to Florida. Or even Georgia where Atlanta is $0.13/kWh

That’s like here in Vermont where a federal lawsuit for environmental reasons is going to force the local utility to shut down its hydro plant and drain the reservoir that’s been in operation for a century on the green river.
Because of environmental reasons, eh? It’s been there a century providing renewable power, an aquatic ecosystem, and countless hours of recreational benefits.
Not exactly the ROI I was looking for.
Because our lawmakers care, and they know best.
 
Has anybody added a 120v heating element to a gas water heater? I have a relatively new gas water heater already and don't want to replace it, but using the heating element as a load dump would be great.

Do they make kits?
 
You can get elements but the better way is to use something like this setup. A small electric hot water tank so the dump load heats the tank and then that tank would feed into your gas unit.

I did find that you can get this small hot water tank setup he used in the 120VAC version from Home Depot.

 
Efficiency vs $ is always an interesting exercise. Many variables. I was looking to replace my mini splits last year and ran the numbers on SEER ratings vs projected life kWh usage, it was a wash. The lower price of the lower SEER units plus the expected cost of power equaled the higher initial cost, lower consumption high SEER units. Weird, it’s almost like the manufacturers worked that out before setting their retail prices.

Also, when I was shopping for a water heater I found the best option was to buy cheapest electric one available and adding a couple extra solar panels to the array.

Recently my power company started charging a monthly fee for each kW of rated power for my solar panels so my 9 year history of ‘just add panels’ no longer works. Essentially they reduced the cost savings of solar by 50% with their new fee. It adds a level of complexity to my $/efficiency calculations.

Where the heck do you live? The set of Running Man or Hunger Games?!

California? :)

Ha! Right? I live in a very rural section of South Carolina where our power is provided by an electric cooperative called Pee Dee Electric. Last June everyone with grid tied solar got a letter saying we had 3 options… 1) pay $X per kw of labeled solar to continue with net metering. Or, 2) disconnect our panels from their grid, buy all our power from them and pay the usual monthly meter fee. Or 3) don’t pay their fee of $X per kw of labeled power, leave our panels connected to their grid and any energy that gets fed onto the grid will belong to the power company where they’ll sell it back to us and our neighbors at full retail price receiving no credits or payments for the energy we generate.

The power company missed a 4th option that us PV owners have… buy a battery bank to store our power and tell Pee Dee Electric Cooperative to pound sand. Which is why I’m here, to learn about the equipment I’ll need to disconnect from their grid.

$0.12/kwh is pretty steep for around here. Last time I checked some folks were paying as little as $0.07 to $0.09 for residential service. $0.12 was high enough to make PV worthwhile where if I was paying $0.07 to $0.09 I probably wouldn’t have bothered.

My beef is that before I installed solar, my power bills were averaging around $55/month, more in the winter, less in the spring and fall but averaged out over the year $55 was about right. I used that year to calculate how much PV to install. In SC it’s against the law to sell our excess electricity so I sized the array pretty close so I wouldn’t be wasting any unused kWhs. It was great for the first year, most months were $0.00. Then they started charging a Meter Fee. First it was $12/mo , then $13, then $14 , then $17/mo and now with their current pricing scheme, I’m paying $45/month for every month that I don’t need to buy any grid power. Sure, for that fee they’ll continue to act as a 12 month battery bank begining June 1st each year, same as they did for the 8 years before their Pay-Per-PV-kW fee.

Summers are pretty warm here so I start off the year basically using all the power I generate but come fall I start banking the unused kWh. Then usually in January and February I use up those banked credits, sometimes needing to buy a few extra grid kWhs to get though late February. And by mid March I’m back to generating more than I use with the excess being credited to my account. Well, credited until midnight May 31 when all credits default back to zero and the new 12 month battery (net metering) year begins again.

Anyway, without solar my monthly bill was $55 and with this new Pay-Per-PV-kW fee my bill is $45.

So basically I bought and installed 5,000 watts of PV to save ten bucks a month on my light bill. Not exactly the ROI I was looking for.

How much would the bill cost you right now if no panels and no net metering?

$45 - $17 = $28, is that the monthly fee for 5kW of PV?
Almost a bargain compared to the California NEM 3.0 proposal. PG&E asked for $12/kW/month ($60 in your case), PUC approved a plan at $8/kW/month ($40), but Newsom announced it needed work, and we don't know what will be implemented.

Is your fee based on STC rating of panels, or on inverter rating, or peak backfeed to grid?
Various games, including multiple panel orientations to reduce peak, extend hours. Export limit to not cross the agreed threshold.

Do they still credit $0.12/month if you pay their photon tax?
California was going to credit us 25% (of $0.20 rate, so $0.05 credit.) Which happened to be exactly the photon tax; zero net credit.

Even if it feels like you're being screwed, their deal may be OK if your production/consumption hours are such that you export 100% then later import. Your 5kW should produce 25kWh/day 750kWh/month so photon tax is $0.037/kWh

Server rack batteries look to me like they will cost $0.05/kWh if they last the claimed 6000 cycles (and they may not.)
So if 100% or even 50% of your power cycles through net metering, the photon tax is competitive.

If only 25% of your power is banked and 75% is consumed when produced, then you may be better off with option 3 (and you have the option of zero-export just to spite them.) Turn on loads to consume surplus when possible.
 
I dont understand the reasoning for zero export? Sounds like it would just waste the excess PV, rather than send it back to the grid and get a credit for it? That sounds like just wasting money to me? I guess unless you never had to draw from the grid?
 
Zero export is most useful if export is forbidden. That happened in Hawaii with too much rooftop PV. SMA then offered zero-export.
If zero credit from utility, If you can do anything useful with it, ideally you would have a continuous variable load (variable speed pump, dimmer switch on a heater), so you use what you can before exporting or curtailing.
If export allowed but zero credit, you might want to throw it away rather than giving it to the utility for free.

I put GT PV at $0.025/kWh (amortized over 20 years) assuming free DIY labor. So it is worth putting in PV to avoid a $0.12/kWh bill. You can oversize beyond minimum draw, wasting some but offsetting more at the higher billed rate, even if you waste 50%, 75%. At 80% wasted (20% used when produced), you lose half a penny.

With costs like $0.025, I'd rather waste some than pay $0.05 for battery. If battery life turns out to be only 3000 cycles it cost $0.10/kWh. If 1500 cycles, $0.20/kWh (and then his utility rates are cheaper.)
 
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