diy solar

diy solar

Energy Conservation

only 25% of your power is banked and 75% is consumed when produced, then you may be better off with option 3 (and you have the option of zero-export just to spite them.) Turn on loads to consume surplus when possible
A bit off topic but what are your thoughts of the following idea. I’m not agreeing or disagreeing with anything below,I’m just sharing thoughts.
Based on that some feel solar is being unfairly “treated” by utility co’s. charging per kW of solar, etc., and that some frame that solar is available to “the rich” so that makes the poor pay a penalty to support the rich’s having solar:
- would it level the field to end all solar production payback above kWh usage (no credits) for grid contribution and end the install subsidies and just let people choose solar or not and deal with whatever those costs are- equally?

Again, not advocating for that, but would that make solar more competitive and stop the powercos from complaining their revenues are insufficient?
 
- would it level the field to end all solar production payback above kWh usage (no credits) for grid contribution and end the install subsidies and just let people choose solar or not and deal with whatever those costs are- equally?
Isn't that pretty much what Cali is trying to do now by requiring houses to have grid tied solar, charging you a "Service Fee" for it, and then not paying for what's fed back?

The other problem is that there is no currently economically viable way to get past the "Solar Paywall" yet. There are those who can afford to spend on solar, and those who can't even if they wanted to. If the cost were low enough, sure, everyone would have it probably... but that's not the reality we live in. :(
 
Isn't that pretty much what Cali is trying to do now by requiring houses to have grid tied solar
Well the “requiring” part I have issues with.
Let people make choices. Let a free market reign. As electric rates rise, solar becomes more consumer appealing and that will be a power of the market because solar equipment (not considering demand) will cost essentially the same whether $0.10/kWh or $0.55/kWh from utility
 
Solar start looking attractive to consumers when it is lower cost than retail.
With net metering, that is on an amortized cost of watts over some years, or system life, or including time value of money when rates are higher.
Without net metering it only applies to the watts you're able to use immediately.

Solar is now competitive with utility power plants and fuel (if needed) for them. But that is use-it-or-lose-it. Other generation that burns fuel (or drains reservoir) is needed when sun doesn't deliver enough.

Rooftop solar costs 3x what utility scale costs, so if the goal is reducing fossil fuel consumption by installing PV, we would get 3x the benefit with utility scale PV plants.

I think PV backfed to the grid provides some benefits to the system. It is power available for users which would otherwise have required utility power plants (that have not been built.) If rooftop solar users all shut off their systems on a high-demand day, I think the grid would collapse. So poor people are benefitting from it.

Obviously 100% net metering without fees gives rooftop PV free use of the grid. I think some net metering provision (maybe not 100%) and/or some charges for grid use could make the system more fair. Peak demand by a user requires utility generating capacity. Maybe consumption should have a charge covering wires used (it does) and pattern of consumption should have a charge (e.g. "demand charges", for peak draw, which exist in some markets.) But I think no charges should be based on fixed PV capacity etc.; consumers should be able to adjust their utilization of the grid to reduce cost and reduce strain on the grid.

I'm rich so I have my own pool. Should I pay a per-gallon capacity tax every month because poor people have to use the community pool?
I'm rich so I drive my own car. Should I pay an automobile tax because poor people have to take the public transit system (which was built with my taxes)?
I'm rich so I live in my own home. Should I pay a tax because poor people have to rent an apartment?

If I want to put in PV and produce my own electricity for $0.025/kWh (amortized over 20 years), or I'm lazy and pay someone else to install it for $0.10/kWh, that is my business. If I use more electricity because the photons were raining down on my property and would have just turned into heat anyway, that isn't hurting poor people who have to buy their electricity from the grid.

Only the demand I place on the grid is costing the utility money, passed on to poor people. If with solar I can shift that to off-peak times, I'm helping poor people by letting utility make money with otherwise idle equipment.

I don't think rooftop PV, batteries, inverters and their maintenance is (the most) cost effective or best utilization. I think what rooftop PV does exist should be fed into the grid, and community or utility scale PV plants should be built. Share power between loads and manage their output for grid stability. That delivers the best results. Rooftop GT PV is relatively low maintenance, but batteries and their inverters would mean many failures requiring people to go fix it. If we subsidized that for poor people they would be without power for extended times waiting for repair.
 
Solar start looking attractive to consumers when it is lower cost than retail.
That's been the case in Australia for many years now. If you have a suitable roof, it's a no brainer to put up a grid tied system here.

With net metering, that is on an amortized cost of watts over some years, or system life, or including time value of money when rates are higher.
Without net metering it only applies to the watts you're able to use immediately.
We have net metering here but excess production exported is credited at a fraction of the cost to buy from the gird. Exported energy roughly valued at the wholesale generation cost as the network/transmission charges are only added to energy purchased from the grid, not on energy supplied to the grid.

As a result, moving discretionary loads to daytime to increase direct self consumption of solar PV its still the most valuable use of the resource.

Rooftop solar costs 3x what utility scale costs, so if the goal is reducing fossil fuel consumption by installing PV, we would get 3x the benefit with utility scale PV plants.
That's true however it is very difficult for an individual to invest in and received immediate direct benefit from a solar farm. It's akin to buying shares in a bus transport service company. The cost per passenger mile is much lower than for your personal car but you don't personally get much use from the bus company services. Eventually you hope to receive some financial benefit by way of dividends or share value growth but you are at the mercy of the company's management.

I think PV backfed to the grid provides some benefits to the system. It is power available for users which would otherwise have required utility power plants (that have not been built.) If rooftop solar users all shut off their systems on a high-demand day, I think the grid would collapse.
Here rooftop solar PV supplied more energy to the nation over the past 12 months than did hydro power or gas fired power stations.

So poor people are benefitting from it.
It's swings and roundabouts here.

Rooftop solar PV has helped drive down daytime wholesale energy prices and is a sizeable source of supply for the grid (displacing daytime coal power mostly, which would have readily been able to provide that energy if needed), however it has come at the cost of increasing daily network service charges as the transmission network loses per kWh income on all the energy they are no longer supplying during the day.

So the network/transmission companies have had little choice but to recover those costs in other ways (it is highly regulated fortunately but those charges have been increasing as a result). And peak period energy pricing in the early morning and especially in the evening have been getting much higher as well.

This has disproportionately negatively affected the poor far more than the well off. It's why organisations here such as the St Vincent de Paul Society here have long lobbied for a better way to address cost of living imbalances the rapid uptake of rooftop solar PV has contributed to. They have a fair point. It's not the fault of the 25% of households who have installed rooftop solar, but rather of the current energy market design.

Rooftop solar PV here is not the most financially efficient way to generate energy, however it's more financially efficient for millions of homes because of the way the system works. It makes a sizeable contribution to servicing grid demand and has enabled more renewable generation into the system than might otherwise have been possible.

But we (Australia) needs continued massive investments in grid scale renewable energy generation, infrastructure and transmission if we are to navigate our way through this.


The flip side is getting back to the theme of the thread - energy conservation.

We are a bit overly focussed at times on the supply side. We also need to work on improving the demand side. Our atrocious house building standards when it comes the energy efficiency is a stand out example. Lack of draft proofing, lousy insulation etc.

The use of ever larger vehicles is another, which have completely eroded any fuel efficiency gains made with better engine design. The lack of investment in public and active transport options and a general anti-cycling/walking sentiment in anglophone countries. Just some examples of why we will struggle to turn this rather large boat around.
 
general anti-cycling/walking sentiment in anglophone countries. Just some examples of why we will struggle to turn this rather large boat around
Here in N America gluttony for instant gratification and the teamsters have basically killed sensible railroad shipping over the last 40+ years

The irony is they have ripped up the local/regional tracks and spent tons of money making the rail beds into bicycling/walking “rail trails.”
We’d be better off shipping from rail cars (carbon-footprint-
 
Here in N America gluttony for instant gratification and the teamsters have basically killed sensible railroad shipping over the last 40+ years

The irony is they have ripped up the local/regional tracks and spent tons of money making the rail beds into bicycling/walking “rail trails.”
We’d be better off shipping from rail cars (carbon-footprint-
When the engineers are replaced with computers more stuff will be moved much faster. I hope.
 
I'm not a fan of technology. But I don't like people, either. So..... I don't know what the solution is. lol
 
I drove by a solar farm in the northeast a couple days ago and I swear the panels were set to about 15 degrees when they "should" be in the high 40's. And the direction didn't seem south, though I wouldn't swear to that. That tells me the utility would rather have flatter power all day. Utilities want your panels facing much more west when they need the power. The utility should pay a premium for peak demand times. Net metering was just a super bad idea and made for bad energy policy.
 
I drove by a solar farm in the northeast a couple days ago and I swear the panels were set to about 15 degrees when they "should" be in the high 40's. And the direction didn't seem south, though I wouldn't swear to that. That tells me the utility would rather have flatter power all day. Utilities want your panels facing much more west when they need the power. The utility should pay a premium for peak demand times. Net metering was just a super bad idea and made for bad energy policy.
Hmm, I wonder how the utility company would respond to an inquiry about production being reduced intentionally.
 
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