“ Don’t Install DC Isolators on Solar”

[D71]

Make sure you read and understand quote for topic. Understand a quote is them.

You guys seen this?

DC GETS NASTY WHEN YOU TRY TO CUT IT OUT WHEN LOADED. Voltage spikes. THIS goes for solar panels or batteries. The higher the voltage the wilder the show when dropping out. Watch how fast the small cheap breaker goes up in flames when cut out. It is Fine in shorted mode not tripping because below rated current to trip. Right? The higher you run your dc voltages the more exciting the show.
Watch about the -8:30 mark for show time when he turns cheap breaker off under load. It wants to continue ….

This is true for both solar and battery breakers and even fuses with some designs. Kinda why need to drop the loads before flipping main breaker off like a switch. It is designed control the arc in emergencies X number times not indefinite over and over. BReakers are safety devices and endure wear with each trip which reduces effectiveness or chance of mis-hap.

I do not care with Midnite solar claims for their breakers being used over and over as switch or even tripping. There is wear and damage. We did that continuous cycling with locomotives high dollar breakers and they were eventual damaged. Again They can be cycled but will also wear and or be damaged especially if it trips repeatedly under full load. Standard procedure with most equipment drop loads before turning off switches and breakers. It is same for turning on breakers - best have switch off in circuits for load items then energize after breaker is up....closed.
That is mostly for new ppl. If you know then you know. If not learn.

They use to tell ppl to cover their solar panel before working on pv side and or “cutting out with switches after covering panels.” Can't imagine ppl crawling up on roof trying do that. Can. you? Obvious …..

I use bluetooth monitors and cut solar when watts - current have dropped and battery is no longer charging no big pull on panel current before using isolator.

I Think you should have insulated cutter some where near system in case of emergency. Best to reduce loads as much as possible.

The cut out on that inverter in video is not going to be much different then one on wall if rated same. So.....i don't get it. Do you? Reads like BS we need an isolator somewhere in system. I use the solar 1500v 30+ amp rotary switch isolator with mc4 connectors on them. I look at BT monitoring make sure the load is basically off before cutting out. I do not use a small cheap breaker in my pv for the reasons as shown.

PPL give 48 vdc inverters more respect then lower voltage inverters but have no worries over the high voltage pv systems with lower current. Crazy. Watch that breaker go up when cut out under load. Weakest point in system will also be exploited.

How do you isolate your solar panels for cut out?

My choice. Again video shows a switch in the inverter like it is magic fairy dust and everything else is poo. Other ppl question that stink think too. I’m not buying an inverter with magical switches built in are you?



Again what are you using? Switches and some breakers are designed to be turned on and off within ratings. A switch is just that a switch and breaker is a safety device but as seen in video would not recommend cheap breakers with Solar PV ……

 

[Sunny Day]

Between my panel strings and charge controllers I’m using polarised DC breakers from Amazon, but I’m not sure I can recommend them as one failed today and has failed open circuit.

I can’t get one of my charge controllers working unless I take the breaker out of circuit, which I will do tomorrow. No chance of a refund from Amazon as I’ve had them for 3 years, so I guess it is a case of accumulated wear and tear due to the arc which switching. I don’t even turn the panels on and off much.

 

[efficientPV]

I testes a 32A DC disconnect breaker from China. I got up to 90A and it hadn't tripped. Insulation on wires was starting to soften and stopped. Hadn't planned on going that high and for that long.

 

[740GLE]

I testes a 32A DC disconnect breaker from China. I got up to 90A and it hadn't tripped. Insulation on wires was starting to soften and stopped. Hadn't planned on going that high and for that long.

You got your moneys worth!!! Typically 90+ amp breaker are $$$ lol.

Was the breaker itself heating up much, or just the insulation?

 

[kobazik]

If you don't use one how can you stop power coming from solar to your let say micro inverter Ecoflow Powerstream? I can't possibly go to the roof and cover them with a blanket each time

Lastly, do you put MC4 fuses between panels and Powerstream?

 

[Suijkerbuijk]

I use them and its just 45volts .
So i do not see a problem with it .
Special with low solar volts
For higher volts well you can make a ark on that moment.
If you set it on or off.
For the rest i will trust more a fuse that can burn out than a breaker.
So it set mc4 fuse on the string .
For the rest if a cable break a solar panel still make power.
So really the best save way is a fuse really close by the solar panel it self .
But than you need to go up on the rooftop to change it.

https://www.amazon.nl/-/en/1000VDC-Photovoltaic-Mounted-Breaking-Capacity/dp/B0BWKF6V7J

 

[ThaiTaffy]

I use cheap DC breakers for my isolators and regularly turn them on/off during load, no fires yet. I'd imagine giving yourself alot of headroom on the voltage side is best, mine only have to deal with 60-70v and are rated for 400 I wouldn't use them for a 300v string preferring something with atleast double the voltage rating or more.

As far as the videos in OP efixx are ok but I wouldn't class them as experts they generally outsource for any solar related details to invited guests.
The Aus electrician with the burning breaker I'd class as a Muppet looking for views, the breaker he used is rated 220v and id put good money on the string he fitted to it being much higher voltage.

 

[moon]

I have installed one of this and i am happy with it so far.

Ausschalter DC, 4-polig, 1000V, 32A • SB432PV | Hager

Finden Sie Hager Produkte, Ausschalter DC 4-polig 1000V 32A und mehr auf Hager Deutschland

hager.com

 

[DIYrich]

If you don't use one how can you stop power coming from solar to your let say micro inverter Ecoflow Powerstream? I can't possibly go to the roof and cover them with a blanket each time

Lastly, do you put MC4 fuses between panels and Powerstream?

Micro inverter is on the panel. Cut off its connection to the grid, and it will stop producing. For AC, AC rated switch is fine. DC is different because there is no zero voltage point 100 to 120 times a second.

For DC, use the RSD to stop production, then with low residual voltage, you can use a dc rated switch.

 

[robbob2112]

Make sure you read and understand quote for topic. Understand a quote is them.

You guys seen this?

View attachment 234407


Video link

DC GETS NASTY WHEN YOU TRY TO CUT IT OUT WHEN LOADED. Voltage spikes. THIS goes for solar panels or batteries. The higher the voltage the wilder the show when dropping out. Watch how fast the small cheap breaker goes up in flames when cut out. It is Fine in shorted mode not tripping because below rated current to trip. Right? The higher you run your dc voltages the more exciting the show.
Watch about the -8:30 mark for show time when he turns cheap breaker off under load. It wants to continue ….

This is true for both solar and battery breakers and even fuses with some designs. Kinda why need to drop the loads before flipping main breaker off like a switch. It is designed control the arc in emergencies X number times not indefinite over and over. BReakers are safety devices and endure wear with each trip which reduces effectiveness or chance of mis-hap.

I do not care with Midnite solar claims for their breakers being used over and over as switch or even tripping. There is wear and damage. We did that continuous cycling with locomotives high dollar breakers and they were eventual damaged. Again They can be cycled but will also wear and or be damaged especially if it trips repeatedly under full load. Standard procedure with most equipment drop loads before turning off switches and breakers. It is same for turning on breakers - best have switch off in circuits for load items then energize after breaker is up....closed.
That is mostly for new ppl. If you know then you know. If not learn.

They use to tell ppl to cover their solar panel before working on pv side and or “cutting out with switches after covering panels.” Can't imagine ppl crawling up on roof trying do that. Can. you? Obvious …..

I use bluetooth monitors and cut solar when watts - current have dropped and battery is no longer charging no big pull on panel current before using isolator.

I Think you should have insulated cutter some where near system in case of emergency. Best to reduce loads as much as possible.

The cut out on that inverter in video is not going to be much different then one on wall if rated same. So.....i don't get it. Do you? Reads like BS we need an isolator somewhere in system. I use the solar 1500v 30+ amp rotary switch isolator with mc4 connectors on them. I look at BT monitoring make sure the load is basically off before cutting out. I do not use a small cheap breaker in my pv for the reasons as shown.

PPL give 48 vdc inverters more respect then lower voltage inverters but have no worries over the high voltage pv systems with lower current. Crazy. Watch that breaker go up when cut out under load. Weakest point in system will also be exploited.

How do you isolate your solar panels for cut out?

My choice. Again video shows a switch in the inverter like it is magic fairy dust and everything else is poo. Other ppl question that stink think too. I’m not buying an inverter with magical switches built in are you?

Again what are you using? Switches and some breakers are designed to be turned on and off within ratings. A switch is just that a switch and breaker is a safety device but as seen in video would not recommend cheap breakers with Solar PV ……

View attachment 234418

The gist of the don't install isolators was don't install "Redundant" isolators. The UK started requiring them on inverters so it states to use NOT install an external isolator if the inverter has one. But do install an external one if the inverter does not come equiped with one. The failures they show are because of poor installations where water can intrude.

They video of the breaker going up in flames was with it hooked up backwards. The solar panels i.e. voltage source is supposed to go into the top of that and most models used for breaking panels. i.e. the constant power on bottom and the power from panels on top. This has to do with the arc chute directions on them. And it is why they always say to install them right-side-up verse sideways or upside-down. And last it is worth the extra $$ if you are going to use a cheap breaker to get one that specifically lists arc chutes in the description. A lot of the DC breakers don't list that and are basically just AC breakers that have DC labels on them.

The DC breakers with the magnetic chutes can be used to break live loads because they kill the arc very quickly compared to generic ones. BUT, they won't ever trip from solar currrent because it can only be as much as the panels generate. So you either trip right away or never. Same for the one in a combiner box - unless you are adding more panels to generate more current or re-arranging your panels into a more parallel arrangment they will continue to work.

If you look at the IMO branded ones they have a snap action switch that breaks both sides at the same moment. Of course these cost a bit and there are cheaper knock-offs that might work just as well for 1/3rd the cost.

I would trust an isolator more than I would a breaker. And in my case I bought a naked one and am putting it inside a metal Vevor box to make it water tight.

A good place in the US to buy them is

Shopping

www.factorymation.com

I use them and its just 45volts .
So i do not see a problem with it .
Special with low solar volts
For higher volts well you can make a ark on that moment.
If you set it on or off.
For the rest i will trust more a fuse that can burn out than a breaker.
So it set mc4 fuse on the string .
For the rest if a cable break a solar panel still make power.
So really the best save way is a fuse really close by the solar panel it self .
But than you need to go up on the rooftop to change it.

https://www.amazon.nl/-/en/1000VDC-Photovoltaic-Mounted-Breaking-Capacity/dp/B0BWKF6V7J

For the no-touch fuses - they are not supposed to be used to disconnect the PV panels. In theory they can generate arc burns on the top and bottom of the fuse if used like that. At least that is what the paperwork says that comes with the UL listed ones.

 

[J.H.]

I use several genuine IMO units out at my arrays ….not half priced copies…they cost about 80 to 100 bucks ea ….have Switched it many times in two years under load and under no load… no problem…works perfect…

 

[robbob2112]

I use several genuine IMO units out at my arrays ….not half priced copies…they cost about 80 to 100 bucks ea ….have Switched it many times in two years under load and under no load… no problem…works perfect…

If you happen to have a YR1035 meter it would be interesting if you measured across the contacts with power applied to see if there has been any increase in resistance. I have a brand new 2 string version I can measure for comparison.

 

[J.H.]

If you happen to have a YR1035 meter it would be interesting if you measured across the contacts with power applied to see if there has been any increase in resistance. I have a brand new 2 string version I can measure for comparison.

As in accumulating or progressive resistance…?? Not sure but I think you mean a slow degrade over time of the unit by increasing resistance ….

the ones I have are 32 amp..my strings for each run up to 23 ish amp at 72v vmp max per array..unless there is a cloud effect issue now and then.. ( I’m not pushing the unit ) ..

The spring loaded switch circuit breaks in about 3-4 ms…
It may have occurred but I have never read anything about a real IMO failing unless abused ..I have seen a few cheap clone using cheaper parts fail online but very few of them …
but that’s just life today…
Just like all the people buying these crapola Mrcb blue sea copies to save 25 bucks and burn up their system…

 

[J.H.]

If you happen to have a YR1035 meter it would be interesting if you measured across the contacts with power applied to see if there has been any increase in resistance. I have a brand new 2 string version I can measure for comparison.

Ok now I gotcha… missed the last sentence about the resistance comparison.. no I don’t have that type meter.. but thst is a good idea…
mine has been in service for almost two years with medium off/ on cycle usage .. 2 to 6 times a week for different reasons..

Unless their literature is totally bogus, they are built for a huge number of full load disconnects, and even more under low or no load..
Im sure you’ve read all that too.

It was the best unit I could find that fit , priced decent , mountable outside and no bad press..

Hey I try to by good stuff… I think this is .. but time will tell.

 

[robbob2112]

Ok now I gotcha… missed the last sentence about the resistance comparison.. no I don’t have that type meter.. but thst is a good idea…
mine has been in service for almost two years with medium off/ on cycle usage .. 2 to 6 times a week for different reasons..

Unless their literature is totally bogus, they are built for a huge number of full load disconnects, and even more under low or no load..
Im sure you’ve read all that too.

It was the best unit I could find that fit , priced decent , mountable outside and no bad press..

Hey I try to by good stuff… I think this is .. but time will tell.

Yeah, their literature varies a bit by model, but basically
1500 make/break with current
8500 make/break without current

The only failures I have read about were water intrusion or poor connections.

It seems like @Zwy had one of the connection ones?
EDIT: maybe he was just showing the guts of one, or maybe my memory is faulty and it was someone else.

The YR1035 meter is cheap on alliexpress.

 

[rhino]

I do not care with Midnite solar claims for their breakers being used over and over as switch or even tripping. There is wear and damage. We did that continuous cycling with locomotives high dollar breakers and they were eventual damaged. Again They can be cycled but will also wear and or be damaged especially if it trips repeatedly under full load. Standard procedure with most equipment drop loads before turning off switches and breakers.

That's why I've seen some like Noark actually list their rated number of mechanical trips under full load in their spec sheet. It's when you can't find any of this info in a spec sheet (if you can even find one) that you should be worried.

 

[Zwy]

Yeah, their literature varies a bit by model, but basically
1500 make/break with current
8500 make/break without current

The only failures I have read about were water intrusion or poor connections.

It seems like @Zwy had one of the connection ones?
EDIT: maybe he was just showing the guts of one, or maybe my memory is faulty and it was someone else.

I would not use one with a MC4 connector, those are IMO copies.

Outside are mounted like this




Inside like this



As for this thread, the OP is way way behind, we had this discussion back in January when I started this thread. As for whether the enclosure is sealed, I showed the internal sealing in this post.

As for the videos in the threads, well, some like to sell clicks, I'll leave it at that.

 

[J.H.]

I would not use one with a MC4 connector, those are IMO copies.

Outside are mounted like this

View attachment 237178


Inside like this

View attachment 237179

As for this thread, the OP is way way behind, we had this discussion back in January when I started this thread. As for whether the enclosure is sealed, I showed the internal sealing in this post.

As for the videos in the threads, well, some like to sell clicks, I'll leave it at that.

Our society is being ruin by certain places and fake or counterfeit crap..

We know whose doing it,,,we know why they do it ..we know how to stop it ..yet ,we do nothing.!

The only isolator units I use like this utilize up to a 6 ga wire… never a mc4…

your correct, clicks Rule ……..it shows one thing then test a totally different piece of gear… what was the point of the intro picture if it’s not relevant to the vid…

Anyway , as I have said before , good looking set up…I wish I were as neat and orderly.

 

[Zwy]

Our society is being ruin by certain places and fake or counterfeit crap..

We know whose doing it,,,we know why they do it ..we know how to stop it ..yet ,we do nothing.!

The only isolator units I use like this utilize up to a 6 ga wire… never a mc4…

your correct, clicks Rule ……..it shows one thing then test a totally different piece of gear… what was the point of the intro picture if it’s not relevant to the vid…

Anyway , as I have said before , good looking set up…I wish I were as neat and orderly.

Watched a video about a guy and van life. It is amazing how the posers get their channel promoted so they can be an influencer. They want that monetization of the channel so advertisers will sponsor them. You can actually pay $20 to get traffic promoting the channel. His video showed how this and other aspects, he was just documenting "vanlife" and those involved.

I could not stoop that low, I'm not interested in monetization of my channel. I make my living thru my business, not on social media. My videos are to share my ideas and experience along the journey. I have nieces and nephews that watch and they just like to see what I have been doing. I'm that crazy uncle with the house and soon to be shop running off grid.

I can't recall if it was you but the "out of the box" system is coming together.

 

[J.H.]

Watched a video about a guy and van life. It is amazing how the posers get their channel promoted so they can be an influencer. They want that monetization of the channel so advertisers will sponsor them. You can actually pay $20 to get traffic promoting the channel. His video showed how this and other aspects, he was just documenting "vanlife" and those involved.

I could not stoop that low, I'm not interested in monetization of my channel. I make my living thru my business, not on social media. My videos are to share my ideas and experience along the journey. I have nieces and nephews that watch and they just like to see what I have been doing. I'm that crazy uncle with the house and soon to be shop running off grid.

I can't recall if it was you but the "out of the box" system is coming together.

It ‘twasnt I… …..the only “ out of the box anything I follow is called “3 Alarm Chile”…
Or maybe Carrol Shelby’s …
But good luck with it…!

J.

 

[Crowz]

Watched a video about a guy and van life. It is amazing how the posers get their channel promoted so they can be an influencer. They want that monetization of the channel so advertisers will sponsor them. You can actually pay $20 to get traffic promoting the channel. His video showed how this and other aspects, he was just documenting "vanlife" and those involved.

I could not stoop that low, I'm not interested in monetization of my channel. I make my living thru my business, not on social media. My videos are to share my ideas and experience along the journey. I have nieces and nephews that watch and they just like to see what I have been doing. I'm that crazy uncle with the house and soon to be shop running off grid.

I can't recall if it was you but the "out of the box" system is coming together.

For a long time all of my vids ended up having around 300 views with a few having 50k. Then one day I washed the wheels on my bmw x5 with a pressure washer. Next thing I know I have 13k subscribers and 7.8 million views on a single video. Life is weird that way.

Money from it was nice and quite surprising

 

[D71]

I’ll make sure to ask you next time before make a post. Hmmmmm no. Usually when making a post something that is similar will pop up but did not see your earlier post.

MC4 works fine for my setup. The mc4 rated ~ 30amp can handle the amps just fine for my system. Much better than the tiny miniature breaker that a lot of ppl use. My isolator carries several ratings enough to make me happy with china and at 1/3 of the price vs your switch when bought mine.



The guy that replied 6 ga wire might be disappointed when he finds out that you use 10awg. Where is your isolator switch made?

What is in the VEVOR label box under your isolation switch .

If you buy and use rubber chicken in your videos and flat out lie about stuff for intro then ppl will click them on youtube. That is trend for new youtubers….. straight up lie. Youtube allows them. I’ve never understood the whole get paid for it anyway. Lowes homedepot amazon and several others had programs that pay ppl to review in exchange they get free products. They sent me the rules and tossed it. Most likely made in china stuff. What is not made in china? Ppl getting upset over it is silly. They can start making things here vs complaining aka go-into business.

For most Better learn speak Chinese so when new land lords show up can pay rent and communicate. Got your jk bms gps on for them to find you? You will get credits for labor in future. They will require you to share your power for everyone that doesnt have it. Thanks comrade.

What is in that chinese Vevor box?

 

[Crowz]

I’ll make sure to ask you next time before make a post. Hmmmmm no. Usually when making a post something that is similar will pop up but did not see your earlier post.

MC4 works fine for my setup. The mc4 rated ~ 30amp can handle the amps just fine for my system. Much better than the tiny miniature breaker that a lot of ppl use. My isolator carries several ratings enough to make me happy with china and at 1/3 of the price vs your switch when bought mine.
View attachment 237196


The guy that replied 6 ga wire might be disappointed when he finds out that you use 10awg. Where is your isolator switch made?

What is in the VEVOR label box under your isolation switch .

If you buy and use rubber chicken in your videos and flat out lie about stuff for intro then ppl will click them on youtube. That is trend for new youtubers….. straight up lie. Youtube allows them. I’ve never understood the whole get paid for it anyway. Lowes homedepot amazon and several others had programs that pay ppl to review in exchange they get free products. They sent me the rules and tossed it. Most likely made in china stuff. What is not made in china? Ppl getting upset over it is silly. They can start making things here vs complaining aka go-into business.

For most Better learn speak Chinese so when new land lords show up can pay rent and communicate. Got your jk bms gps on for them to find you? You will get credits for labor in future. They will require you to share your power for everyone that doesnt have it. Thanks comrade.

What is in that chinese Vevor box?

That's the same one I use as a disconnect on my stuff now. The breakers I bought off amazon before that started making sizzling noises and letting out smoke when I turned them off so I decided to go with that switch.

 

[J.H.]

For a long time all of my vids ended up having around 300 views with a few having 50k. Then one day I washed the wheels on my bmw x5 with a pressure washer. Next thing I know I have 13k subscribers and 7.8 million views on a single video. Life is weird that way.

Money from it was nice and quite surprising

Funny you would mention that… I watch a guy last nite thst had the same thing happen..good fishing channel about the fish8ng in the Keys.
He never got many views really, had good info but never got alot of views..

This one caught my eye as it concerned a baby raccoon that snored all the way back to land…
??? …say what….??
Funny as hell video as he saved a small sleepy raccoon swimming in sharky waters and had to paddle his kyack all over the damn place in the keys as the raccoon wouldn’t wake up and get out…he was sleepy…and snoring in the tackle box.

He made a few grand in 24 hours from going viral…huge number of clicks .. one cute coon…one nice fisherman… I know am now subscribed …seems like a good guy.

J.

 

[Zwy]

I’ll make sure to ask you next time before make a post. Hmmmmm no. Usually when making a post something that is similar will pop up but did not see your earlier post.

“Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery that mediocrity can pay to greatness”.