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diy solar

diy solar

“Inverter Only” solar system??

Zerpersande

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Oct 5, 2022
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I live in Japan and I’m currently considering purchasing a solar system for my house. The initial system they proposed included batteries that were just ridiculously expensive and so they came back with a system without batteries. In other words it would just supply power during the day. And because my wife and I have a homebase business we use a lot of electricity during the day. But now looking at the system they’re proposing it looks like they may be using a controller that only supplies 100 V AC. Plus selling excess electricity to the grid. It appears that the controller doesn’t have connections to hook up batteries in the future. The controller is either Canadian Solar’s CSP44/55G4J or CSR48/56G4F. So my questions are:
1) I guess controllers exist the only supply AC output and have no capacity to charge batteries, is that correct?
2) Assuming that the animal we’re speaking of in #1 above actually exists, what would have to be done to add the capacity to charge batteries?
3) Is anyone familiar with the company Canadian Solar?

Also up for comments is the price for the system. Three(3) 410W panels and six(6) 315W panels plus the controller, installation, twice yearly inspections, output guarantees on the panels in line what I have read to be normal for about US$7,600. The current exchange rate helps right now.
 
There are basically 3 types of solar inverters. There are some variations on each of those types, but here are the basics.

What they are quoting you now is likely a "Grid Tied" inverter. It has an MPPT solar panel input (May have more than one) MPPT is (Maximum Power Point Tracking). The idea is is tries to pull the maximum amount of power at all times, even as the conditions change. If there are no shadows, properly placed solar panels will start making power soon after sunrise, but it will be a small amount of power. As the earth turns and the sun is more over the panels, the power will increase up to maximum power at "Solar Noon" when the sun is hitting flat on the solar panels. After that, the power will roll back down forming a "bell curve" of power. Shadows or even light clouds can cause dips in the power produced. A Grid Tied inverter takes all of this power and converts it into a current source that is fed into your home's power system. To make this safe, it has to see a good power grid before it can produce any power output. Here in the USA it must see good power for 5 full minutes. This is a safety rule. If there is a power line down and people are working on it, you don't want to push out any power as you could kill someone. during repairs the power might come on and off. After 5 minutes, it should be stable. But if it goes out of spec, the solar inverter will once again shut off quickly. Peak power at solar noon is typically about 80% of the STC power rating of the solar panels.

Not sure why they want to use two different rated panels. Is this a small roof and that is the most they could fit? In any case, you have a total STC rating of (6 x 315) + (3 x 410) = 3,120 watts. 80% of that would be almost 2,500 watts. This is only a rough estimate, but it is close to what I see with my system here. This 2,500 watts will produce a current of 25 amps feeding into your 100 volt grid connection. If you are using more than 25 amps, any extra current needed will still come from the grid. If you are using less than 25 amps, the extra can flow out to the grid. But this depends on your local electrical codes and the electric utility rules. Some areas still pay you for extra power as it does help power your neighbors, but the amount you get credited for this extra power could be anywhere from what you pay for power down to almost nothing. You need to check with your electric utility provider. In my case the credit is about half the charges. For every kilowatt hour I push back, I can take 0.5 KWH at a different time. So it is best if you can use the power as it is produced as it could be worth more that way. In areas where the utility does not allow energy being pushed back, you need a grid tie inverter that can support power limiting. That will cause the inverter to reduce it's output to prevent any back feed to the grid.

In any case... a grid tied inverter will only work when the grid is working and stable. They are the cheapest way to go solar, but the return on your investment is higher dependent on the net meter billing details of your electric supplier. I started with a Grid Tied Enphase Microinverter system. It supplied about 70% of my energy needs for the year, but I only saved 30% off of my electric bills.

The second type of Solar Power inverter system is "Off Grid". This type of system requires a large battery bank and a lot of solar panels. You need to plan for the worst case you want to cover. You need enough batteries to run all of your loads for about 3 days. Then you need enough solar panel to recharge those batteries in a single good day. This way you can cover a few cloudy days. With Grid Tied, if you don' make enough solar, you just pull from the grid and don't even notice. When off grid, if you fall short of energy, it just turns off and you have no power. Most people who run off grid typically include a generator with auto start. If the battery bank runs too low, it fires up the generator to keep the batteries from going dead. If your off grid solar panels make more energy than you use, the extra power is just thrown away. The solar panels still go to an MPPT tracker, but instead of feeding the AC inverter, it uses a DC to DC converter to push all the power into the battery bank. If the battery becomes full, the charge controller will stop charging, but it does that by just throwing the power away.

The third option is a "Hybrid" solar power inverter. As the name implies, it combines some functions of both a Grid Tied system and an Off Grid system. In a perfect world, any extra solar produced when the sun is up will go into charging the batteries. If the batteries become full though, some hybrid systems can then still push the extra solar to the grid for credit, but many can't. Check the data sheet. When the sun goes down, you have a few options. You can run on your stored battery power so you don't need to buy power from the electric utility. But if your battery runs low, it can just revert to using grid power. This allows you to get away with a smaller solar panel array as well as a smaller battery bank. This makes it typically much lower cost than an off grid system. It sounds like the first system quote was a hybrid. It does cost more than a Grid Tied system. Some hybrid inverters can run "batteryless" as a grid tied system, but they are typically less efficient than a dedicated grid tie only inverter. If you start with grid tied only, you could just swap out the inverter if you decide to go to a hybrid later. But that is throwing away (or trying to sell) the old inverter. There are other options. I am still using my original Enphase grid tie microinverter system. It is now "AC Coupled" to my hybrid battery inverter system. My battery inverter can charge from the extra solar and run my house from battery at night. It can also disconnect from the grid if it senses a problem and run off grid until the grid checks good again. I have had the grid go down a couple times now, and the last time, we didn't even notice as the hybrid system kept things running without a glitch.

AC Coupling is what it sounds like. The AC output of the hybrid inverter is connected to the AC connection of the grid tie inverter. This is not as efficient as a straight hybrid system alone as it has to convert from DC at the solar panel to AC to feed the house, then back to DC again to charge the battery, and finally back to AC again when feeding from battery back to the house loads. When I was storing 10 KWHs during the day to use each night, it was losing 10% of the energy due to all the conversions. I have since added additional solar panels that directly DC charge the batteries. This is far more efficient, and I lose less than 5% now from the panels to my home at night.
 
What they are quoting you now is likely a "Grid Tied" inverter. It has an MPPT solar panel input (May have more than one) MPPT is (Maximum Power Point Tracking). The idea is is tries to pull the maximum amount of power at all times, even as the conditions change.
Sounds like it so far.
A Grid Tied inverter takes all of this power and converts it into a current source that is fed into your home's power system. To make this safe, it has to see a good power grid before it can produce any power output. Here in the USA it must see good power for 5 full minutes. This is a safety rule. If there is a power line down and people are working on it, you don't want to push out any power as you could kill someone. during repairs the power might come on and off.
Hmm, the salesman said if the power goes out in a natural disaster we’ll be able to have the power our panels generate.

Not sure why they want to use two different rated panels. Is this a small roof and that is the most they could fit?
Yeah, small roof.

For every kilowatt hour I push back, I can take 0.5 KWH at a different time. So it is best if you can use the power as it is produced as it could be worth more that way.
Electricity here is a bit more than 30¥/kWhr. So with the current exchange rate about $0.21. And the electric company buys it at about 16¥.

In any case... a grid tied inverter will only work when the grid is working and stable. They are the cheapest way to go solar, but the return on your investment is higher dependent on the net meter billing details of your electric supplier. I started with a Grid Tied Enphase Microinverter system. It supplied about 70% of my energy needs for the year, but I only saved 30% off of my electric bills.
I don’t get that. Was that because you are including the initial layout for the system itself?

The second type of Solar Power inverter system is "Off Grid".
This isn’t me. Well, it’s what is in my camper, but not feasible with the house.

The third option is a "Hybrid" solar power inverter. As the name implies, it combines some functions of both a Grid Tied system and an Off Grid system.
This is what I want. But I don’t plan to put in a large number of batteries. They will be used when the grid fails due to a natural disaster. And energy rationing will go into effect. I want to buy a system with no batteries but that can handle batteries at a later date.

AC Coupling is what it sounds like.
The only reason I might be interested in this would be if I could connect my camper’s system to my house. And I think that the easiest way to get power out of my camper is just to run an (Anderson) extension cord and use it to power my DC fridge or DC lighting.

Oh, and thanks for taking the time to write such a detailed response. It was very helpful.
 
This is what I want. But I don’t plan to put in a large number of batteries. They will be used when the grid fails due to a natural disaster. And energy rationing will go into effect. I want to buy a system with no batteries but that can handle batteries at a later date.
Hybrid inverters tend to be more costly because they are more complex.

You now have two options.

1. You can install a hybrid system now without batteries and it will act like a grid-tie, and add batteries later.

2. You can install a grid tie now and install a second battery-only inverter later. The battery inverter should be able to detect any excess from the grid-tie and use it to charge batteries. This method will be more expensive in the end as you will have two inverters.
 
Hmm, the salesman said if the power goes out in a natural disaster we’ll be able to have the power our panels generate.
There are a few "Battery Less" systems that can produce a very limited power when the sun is shining but the grid is down. The problem is that the power is not stable. Even a small cloud will cause the power to drop out. At best, you can hope for less than have the wattage the panels are actually producing at any given moment. Having a battery to store up the energy sort of acts like a flywheel to smooth it out.
Electricity here is a bit more than 30¥/kWhr. So with the current exchange rate about $0.21. And the electric company buys it at about 16¥.
Electricity where I am is more expensive, but you still have the almost 2:1 ratio between the buy and sell rates. With just grid tie, you need to send them 30 KWHs to be able to use 16 KWHs at night. If you store it in a battery, even with 10% loss, you store that 30 KWHs and you get to use 27 KWHs at night with no power transmission fees either. We get a small charge per KWH for energy going either direction. They say it is for maintaining the lines, so I guess it makes sense. But if the power stays on my property it never goes through their meter and onto their lines.
I don’t get that. Was that because you are including the initial layout for the system itself?
This was due to the "Time of Use" pricing. When I export power near noon, it is half the price, and they only credit the energy cost, not the taxes. Then at night, I was paying double for any energy I used and the taxes. Adding the battery system and just storing 10 KWHs to use each night made my saving nearly the full 70% I was expecting.
This is what I want. But I don’t plan to put in a large number of batteries. They will be used when the grid fails due to a natural disaster. And energy rationing will go into effect. I want to buy a system with no batteries but that can handle batteries at a later date.
Once you have an operating hybrid inverter, it is pretty easy to add more battery storage later if you decide you need it. I started with 18 KWHs and it was enough 90% of the time. I would cycle 10 KWHs a day and had some reserve left if the grid went down. But of course, when the grid did go down, it happened late at night after I had used the 10 KWHs and the sun was not coming up for 8+ hours. We did make it through to sun up, but I had to run the battery very low and we also turned off anything we didn't need. A few months later I ordered another set of cells and doubled my battery bank to 36 KWHs and we have not had a problem since. I now cycle 12 to 14 KWHs a day to run all night until the sun is up again and I have not had to pay an electric bill for nearly 2 full years.
The only reason I might be interested in this would be if I could connect my camper’s system to my house. And I think that the easiest way to get power out of my camper is just to run an (Anderson) extension cord and use it to power my DC fridge or DC lighting.
If I was starting completely new, it is a tough call. Most of my system would be DC coupled panels into the battery bank. Many of the newer "All in One" hybrid inverters do this internally. They have from 1 to 4 solar MPPT trackers built in and they can directly charge the battery bank at over 97% efficiency. But when you also need AC output power, the energy from the MPPT solar inputs can also directly feed the inverter section at about 95% efficiency. And once the sun is down, the battery can feed the inverter at 95% efficiency.

My Enphase Microinverter system goes from the solar panels to AC power in my house at over 98% efficiency, but I lose about 5% more to get it into the batteries. It has to convert the AC back to DC again. Right now I have another 2,000 watts of panels on my garage roof that are DC coupled and directly charge the batteries at about 98% efficiency. This also fixes a problem called "Dark Start". If my AC coupled battery system ran down to where the hybrid inverter shut off at night, I would still have no power when the sun came up. That is because with the inverter shut down, there is no "Good Grid" for the grid tie inverters to lock onto to make power. The DC coupled panels don't care. They just start charging the battery as soon as sun is hitting them. Once the battery recovers by enough, the inverter will start back up. And then my AC coupled panels can start making power again in 5 minutes.

If I was doing it all over again, I would probably go with an all DC coupled string system. But the safety rules here make it a little harder. I would still need to install a rapid shut down box at each solar panel. Some of the new inverters have the electronics to support that built in. For mine, I need an add on box to send a signal up the wires to tell the RSD boxes it is okay to send power. Any time that signal is lost, the panels shut down. This is to make it safer for firemen to work on the roof around the panels and not worry about 400 volts DC.

Coupling in your trailer could be tricky. DC power transfer would be the easiest as it won't need to sync to the AC frequency. If you end up with a hybrid battery system in the house, you could use a DC to DC battery charger to pull energy from the camper battery system and push it into the house battery system. They do not need to be the same voltage. The good ones use a DC to DC converter to produce a proper charge profile into the battery.
Oh, and thanks for taking the time to write such a detailed response. It was very helpful.
No problem at all. Most of us on here do this for fun and like to help others. Saving money and having backup power are all good, but this really becomes a hobby at this point. I am in the process of adding another 4,000 watts of solar panels bringing my array total to over 10,000 watts of panels. I am hoping to be able to charge an EV without needing grid power most of the time.
 
There are a few "Battery Less" systems that can produce a very limited power when the sun is shining but the grid is down. The problem is that the power is not stable. Even a small cloud will cause the power to drop out. At best, you can hope for less than have the wattage the panels are actually producing at any given moment. Having a battery to store up the energy sort of acts like a flywheel to smooth it out.
Must not be this type of a system then because the guy said it will supply AC for daytime use AND during disasters. Japanese can be extremely reactive. It was recently a somewhat large earthquake somewhere in the lower part of Japan and the feeling was that this may be a precursor to a major event along the fault line. People started stockpiling all kinds of things. I’d been told my wife long ago that maybe we should try to find space to keep some water, and maintain an inventory of food that we cycled through so that we would have enough for several days if something happened. Not interested. Suddenly she wants to buy flashlights and whistles. Gotta have a whistle so if the house collapses you can blow the whistle and the rescuers can find you. Well, you gotta’ carry a freaking whistle around everywhere you go and sleep with a whistle for that do any good but she had to have a whistle. So I got her a whistle. It stays on the table next to my recliner in the living room. So during an earthquake all she has to do is make it to my recliner and she can blow the whistle.

But I digress. My point is is that the systems are supposed to address disaster situation so that you have electricity. We were presented with a system that had batteries the batteries are just too expensive. Well, the markup is too drastic in my opinion. So they proposed this other system.
Once you have an operating hybrid inverter, it is pretty easy to add more battery storage later if you decide you need it. I started with 18 KWHs and it was enough 90% of the time.
We used about 6500KWHr last year. Not sure of the distribution between day and night but I’m here all the time so more daytime than the average family. So 8KWhr Would pretty much get us through the night. And once again, the main goal is for emergency situations where allowances must be made.

I want a system that provides power during the day but allows the addition of batteries later. LiTime has a 24V/200AHr battery for $950. What I’m expecting is that switching to a hybrid inverter is going to really jack up the price.
 
I also live in an earthquake area and right now I have 3 wild brush fires burning within less than 30 miles (50 KM) of my home. For now, I still have grid power, but they have issued us warnings that the power could be cut any time to reduce the fire danger in the high winds. But most of the people that have solar power systems are all just grid tie with no backup power. During our last grid power failure, my house was the only one with the lights on. After the power was out for about 5 hours, I started hearing a bunch of generators being started.

Yes, batteries are expensive, but they are truly needed to make a stable power source. PV solar panels are great, but the power output directly follows how much direct sunlight is hitting the face of the panel. The Enphase iQ8 line of microinverters are able to form a local grid and produce power when the grid is down, but there are a lot of limitations. If you look at a typical power output curve for a day, you will notice how the power output forms a bell curve. Here is my power curve from my Enphase iQ7 system for today. This is 16 x 300 watt panels with an iQ7 inverter on each panel.

Enphase01-08-25.JPG
Each bar is the average power produce for that 15 minutes. You can clearly see there are some dips in the curve. That is caused by clouds going by. And since the bar is a 15 minute average, it is possible the power dips went much lower but for only 1 minute in that 15 minutes. Only 12 of those 15 minute bars stayed over 2,000 watts even though I have 4,800 watts of STC rated solar panels on that system. That is a total of 3 hours, where you could use 2,000 watts.

But it is even wors than that. Any power you don't use as it is produced is just lost. In those 3 hours, we could have easily pulled 6,000 watt hours, but if you were just running a few lights and charging your phone, you threw away the rest of that power. When you have a battery, it will store all of the power from the solar panels and you can use it any time, even at night, not just the 3 hours near noon. And this was on a good day of winter production. Here is Dec 22nd when we had more clouds.

Enphase12-22-24.JPG

The maximum power hit all day was just 1,600 watts, and that only lasted for just one 15 minute slice. Most of the day averaged under 1,000 watts. You could not even us a microwave oven. With just a small battery, it can store up energy and give you 3, 000 watts still, for a few minutes, even if the clouds are making it so your solar panels are only making 300 watts. If you store that for a full hour, you can run 3,000 watts for 5 minutes. You can't do that without a battery.

The Enphase iQ8 system can easily add iQ batteries later, but they are VERY EXPENSIVE. The cost per kilowatt hour of storage is bad. My iQ7 microinverters are compatible with an iQ8 based battery system, and I did look into buying that, but the cost was so bad. Instead, I went with an AC coupled Schneider XW-Pro hybrid inverter, but I will admit it was certainly not perfect or smooth to make it all work.

A much easier option would have been a Tesla Powerwall2, but at the time, no one would sell me one for my existing Enphase solar.

What brand inverters are available to you? I know there are Growatt and Deye hybrid systems that can use a very small battery or even run with no battery. And then you can add more battery storage later if you find you need it. Even a tiny battery can make a huge difference as it will run the inverter to make stable power for a couple minutes as clouds move by. It can also supply a current surge like the compressor starting in a refrigerator. Solar panels directly just can't provide any surge current. Adding capacitors, which is what allows the inverter to work at all without a battery, will help a little, but you just can't stuff in enough capacitor to last more than a couple seconds, let alone minutes or hours like you get with batteries.

I have no idea if this is any good, but I found this hybrid "48 volt" battery inverter that an work on the Japanese 100 volt power grid. This one is rated at 5,000 watts and can accept over 5,000 watts of solar panels at up to 500 volts. That gives you a lot of options or solar panel choices.


Does this sound like what you want? If you can get the brand and model number for a nuit, I can try to look up a manual for it and see what it can do.

6,500 KWHs a year is a bit less than the 8,000 we used here but seems very reasonable for a typical home. To be able to safely run for a few days off grid, I typically recommend having enough battery capacity for 2 days. And then have enough solar panel to be able to charge it in just one good day. For your use, I would recommend about 300 amp hours at 48 volts. There are now batteries what that much capacity in a single case, but they are big and heavy. Most typical "server rack" type bateries are still 100 amp hour each, so you use 3 of them in parallel. There are a few on sale here that go for about $1,000 US dollars. Not cheap, but not crazy either. And you can probably start up the system with just 1 battery and buy more later if you decide you need it.

For solar panel, we want to charge 15 KWHs in a day. Have you looked up how many "Sun Hours" you get in a day for each month of the year? Where I live, I get 3 to 6 sun hours a day depending on the time of year, but it can also drop under 1 sun hour in bad weather. A good safe estimate to use here is 3 sun hours and most days will do more. Today, my system did 15 KWHs from 4,800 watts of panels. That is just a bit more than 3 sun hours. 1 sun hour on 4,800 watts of panels produces 4,800 watt hours of electricity. This is pretty close to what you would need. Round it up to 5,000 watts of solar panel, if you can fit it and aim them at the sun towards the equator.
 
What brand inverters are available to you?
I asked about having them install their hybrid inverter. (They don’t like it when I call it an inverter because they call it a conditioner.) It will increase the price of the system by about $750. But what they say is that inverter will only work with the batteries that that inverter manufacturer provides. Well that was the first statement but it turns out that they just won’t guarantee that any other batteries will work. I think they’re trying to push me into buying those really expensive batteries, actually insanely over-priced batteries. Here’s a link to the hybrid inverters they sell. Could you scroll through and see if the specs make sense to you? I think they want to use EHF-S55MP3B. I would think that it should just be a matter of entering the battery specs.
 
I opened the manual here.


But I can't et google to translate it to English.

Some inverters do use odd proprietary batteries. With Lithium batteries, there is a BMS inside the battery to monitor all of the cells. In many cases this communicates with the inverter to adjust the parameters base on the battery state. On my system, I have the inverter running in "Custom" battery mode where it allows me to set all of the voltages and currents, and BMS data is optional and only works with a few. I am not using BMS data, but that may not be an option on that inverter. Does the manual even state what the battery voltage is? It may not be a simple 24 or 48 volt system. The Solar Edge + LG system used a 400 volt battery.
 
Must not be this type of a system then because the guy said it will supply AC for daytime use AND during disasters.
It probably is; that's what they advertise those systems for (the "secure power" type systems.) For a while only SMA was doing it, but at the last RE+ I saw a few Chinese companies doing it.
 
I opened the manual here.
But I can't et google to translate it to English.
Everything about this system seems a bit oddball. There’s a work around that will give you this…
IMG_6274.jpeg

But you have to screenshot each page. The link I sent you had a section on the inverter that gave a lot ofbthe technical specs. I thought you might be able to determine the acceptable battery types from that.

As for entering battery specific settings in the controller I obtained the specs from LiTime support and intend to set set it up as you described.
 
But you have to screenshot each page.
By ‘you’ I didn’t mean YOU. I meant that it is necessary in order to read it. I don’t want to know HOW to set up the parameters for a battery, just that it CAN be done. The battery version with the manufacturer’s batteries is over twice as expensive as a simple grid-tied system. Insane??
 
Japanese are charging out the wazoo for batteries as nobody here really DIY's stuff. unfortunately TEPCO has to many friends int he diet so they wrote laws that protect TEPCO. you can't even build a system that is tied to the grid unless they TEPCO, or their trusted installers install it. I do not car what kind of inverter it is, if you have the correct voltage it will charge and discahrge, it might not be as efficient as one with coms between the battery and the inverter but it will work.

just get them to install the system without batteries and then replace the inverter with a non back feed type and have it charge a huge DIY bank instead.

edit: never mind they are planning on doing online monitoring on you i think... that would not work.
 
Japanese are charging out the wazoo for batteries as nobody here really DIY's stuff. unfortunately TEPCO has to many friends int he diet so they wrote laws that protect TEPCO. you can't even build a system that is tied to the grid unless they TEPCO, or their trusted installers install it. I do not car what kind of inverter it is, if you have the correct voltage it will charge and discahrge, it might not be as efficient as one with coms between the battery and the inverter but it will work.

just get them to install the system without batteries and then replace the inverter with a non back feed type and have it charge a huge DIY bank instead.

edit: never mind they are planning on doing online monitoring on you i think... that would not work.
You and I had a phone conversation a while back!

Well, they said they can install a hybrid converter without the batteries, so I figured I would install them myself. Get (2) LiTime 24V 200Ahr batteries for about 190,000¥ each. The company said they’ll leave the battery input wires unattached. Whacha’ think?
 
You and I had a phone conversation a while back!

Well, they said they can install a hybrid converter without the batteries, so I figured I would install them myself. Get (2) LiTime 24V 200Ahr batteries for about 190,000¥ each. The company said they’ll leave the battery input wires unattached. Whacha’ think?
Can you get data on the model of
Inverter? If you can get “Engrish” language instructions I would definitely consider it
 
Can you get data on the model of
Inverter? If you can get “Engrish” language instructions I would definitely consider it

That’s what I got from them. They also said the LiTime batteries would work but they don’t guarantee the entire system would work properly. My experience with 35 years of seeing Japanese attitudes at work makes me believe that would dissuade the casual user. But that sort of individual would never have considered replacing their own battery in their cars either.

Thoughts?
 

That’s what I got from them. They also said the LiTime batteries would work but they don’t guarantee the entire system would work properly. My experience with 35 years of seeing Japanese attitudes at work makes me believe that would dissuade the casual user. But that sort of individual would never have considered replacing their own battery in their cars either.

Thoughts?
they will not warranty that the battery will be properly charged and will maintain balance would be my guess, and yes the average japanese member of society would not tinker with it.

I have often side that in the box,at the center is the Japanese mind and thought process... it does not wander close to the sides, let alone think outside of it... lest someone think i am bashing on them I am not, its part of why they have such an ordered society, but it definitely has its limitations I am oging to look at the link and see what i can gather from it.
 
… it does not wander close to the sides, let alone think outside of it…
…its part of why they have such an ordered society, but it definitely has its limitations I am going to look at the link and see what i can gather from it.
Yeah, it’s not bashing, just stating a fact about how ‘things are done’…or not done. It DOES lead to order. But when things which ‘can (easily) be done’ get relegated to ‘the domain of professionals’ it drives up one’s cost of living. I put an O-ring in a leaky outdoor faucet for about 100¥, against the protests of ‘The Wife-Woman’ and then had her call a plumber and inquire about the cost of such a repair. It turned out to be about 7500¥. She attributed that to ‘making a house call’. Huh? As if I could bring the faucet in? I have a Dremel and keep my Golden Retriever’s nails in condition with bi-weekly touch ups. My daughter has a dog with excessively long nails, in her opinion too, be ause she won’t go against how the ‘professional’ leaves them due ti her dog have ‘dark nails’. But I digress….

Yeah, I can agree that they won’t warrant performance. If they warrant to product, that’s cool. I just don’t see why I can’t have the wires run to a location I designate and I’ll attach the batteries myself.

Ahhh, pics of current installation progress. (Work has been delayed to a year-long recuperation period following a severely torn rotator cuff.)
 

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so the big question is does/can the inverter run in open loop? if it can then it boils down to your BMS being capable of its job I do not pay much attention too the High Frequeuncy offerings which is what this is according to the literature. any idea who actually makes it so we can find out if its dumb battery capable? that Or buy it with the smallest battery and then build one that runs at the same voltage and just hook it up. state of charge would never be correct ont he meter but voltage is going to flow the path of the least resistance so it will charge and discharge...
 
I’ve got a basic one in my van conversion that I have been putting together for a while. But putting one on my house? Nope, putting an array on my roof, with the type of roofing that's up there? Sounds like a good way to end up with a leaking roof. And tying it into my electrical system? I expect wiring a transfer switch is something I would have to pay a licensed electrician to do.

The wonders of living in Japan.
 
I’ve got a basic one in my van conversion that I have been putting together for a while. But putting one on my house? Nope, putting an array on my roof, with the type of roofing that's up there? Sounds like a good way to end up with a leaking roof. And tying it into my electrical system? I expect wiring a transfer switch is something I would have to pay a licensed electrician to do.

The wonders of living in Japan.
fully understand, that an authorized company will need to install the system and initially fire it up, but nothing stopping you from building a (larger) pack and replacing the battery they install. or not even replacing just adding some good hefty cables and plugging in second pack in parallel
 
Well, yep, that’s pretty much what I wanted to do. Company quoted a 3kW array with no battery for about ¥1.3M and with a battery for ¥3.3M. I ask about them adding the cables to the battery and I’ll add the battery later. Apparently the no-battery system meant a no-battery inverter. So I asked about adding the inverter from the with-battery system. Sure, but that’s an extra ¥100K. And, oh, no guarantee on system performance with user supplied battery.

What could be ‘special’ about their inverter, or their battery?
 

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