1000watt panel system with 10 100watt panels

[iamrich]

I would go 3S3P (900w) and run the batteries 2S2P (24v, 200ah) so you don't have to spend any more money. You can always add later, and honestly I would be buying my bigger panels for a lot less money. My 250w panels (used) where $48 each (shipped) and even if they put out 50% rated, they are still at least equal to the 100w at 1/3 the cost. The panels strings will run ~60v at ~ 6A each (you will need a combiner box, or other combining solution), well within the Rover specs.
Series 2 each of your batteries to make 24V packs, and then parallel them to get 200ah. If a battery fails you can take one pack offline and still have one pack to use.

Can't help you with the inverter, but I think your well pump is out of reach for this setup, so a 2kw inverter would probably be enough.

 

[Hedges]

With an MPPT charger, you can use 24V panels with a 12V battery. You might even wire pairs of panels in series for 48V nominal and use with a 12V battery. The MPPT charge controller does for DC what a transformer does for AC, reduces voltage while increasing current.

IF you bought panels and charge controller from Amazon, you may be able to return if you change your mind.

The various brands of inverters have different features and performance. Sometimes mixing brands makes sense, and sometimes building a system around one brand is good due to how the components talk to each other.
You should plan and design what you want, including battery chemistry, charge controller which supports it, inverter which can be set for low-voltage shutdown that is good for battery, also size battery to deliver current inverter needs.

I have a larger system with 48V battery, all SMA equipment, and high voltage strings (about 380 Vmp) of PV panels (including 12V, 24V, 36V panels.)

Given that you're only doing 1 kW of PV and small loads at this time, you may want to use all low-cost equipment and get experience with it. That way if you build a large one later, you can switch brands without having tied up much money.

 

[Dzl]

What would 4 strings of 3 give me?

In what sense?

i do not need to worry about doing 24v solar panels and doing 4 12v 00Ah batteries in parallel? Do i understand that correctly?

Don't even think in terms of '12v' '24v' '48v' solar panels, its not accurate and not relevant if you are using a MPPT charge controller. Those are legacy terms that are relevant for PWM charge controllers.

should i go with a highend inverter charger like samlex or magnum or would aims be a good choice? Or victron? Do you know which is preferrable?

Your not asking questions, that others can really answer, they are too broad, and too non-specific. You need to put some time into researching and designing your system in a logical manner, before you continue buying things, think through your system as a whole.
Obviously, in the abstract, the high end inverter is the preferrable choice, but since this is not a decision made in the abstract, and cost and other priorities are factors you need to learn about and weight those factors. Of course we are here to help guide, or answer specific questions, but asking what to buy is going down the wrong path I think, you should understand at least the basics of the system you are designing and why you choose the components you choose. Any of the inverter brands you mentioned may be suitable, Aims is not of the same caliber as the others, but its somewhat cheaper and might be suitable.

I'm not trying to be unhelpful here, I just think you need to be asking questions that help you understand as opposed to questions about what specifically to buy

 

[Tbleppy]

You do not understand how an MPPT SCC works because the voltage of your panels has nothing to do with your battery voltage.
You have made the classic newbie mistake of buying small 100w panels and an undersized SCC before you planned your system.
If you are ground mounting why did you buy expensive small 100 watt panels at $85 each?
Should have bought cheap 250w or larger.
Mounting and wiring 4 panels is a lot easier than 10.
Also you had no idea of how much power you needed before buying stuff.

yes, i bought these panels on amazon. My return window is still open. I am considering returning them for larger ones. Can you recommend a good source to find cheap 250w or larger?
I am still within my return window on the charger too. I can redo the system other than the batteries as they are non returnable. 12v 100Ah LiFePO4 with a quantity of 4 total.
Havent bought the inverter yet. Thats when I got stumped and realized I need help.
Do you know a good method to do the ground mount? I was thinking Z clips attached to a wood 2x4 frame which would be triangular(like a swingset frame).
I had difficulty estimating my loads because I dont own the appliances yet so thats a whole other swamp of items to investigate. My internet is subpar because of my location and I just get it on my phone and it only work well come nighttime.
i really appreciate the help.
anything would be better than what i have now. My system went down a few days ago (think maybe water got into a connection?) im literally without power except charging off a battery with a 3 outlet car inverter.
i just want to get a system up. Powering lights and a freezer is my priority. Those would be simultaneous. Dishwasher(countertop) and washer(portable) are secondary priorities, well pump is a long shot im sure and ill keep it on the generator if need be. None of those things would need to run simultaneous but whatever ran would be in addition to the freezer and possibly lights.

 

[Tbleppy]

With an MPPT charger, you can use 24V panels with a 12V battery. You might even wire pairs of panels in series for 48V nominal and use with a 12V battery. The MPPT charge controller does for DC what a transformer does for AC, reduces voltage while increasing current.

IF you bought panels and charge controller from Amazon, you may be able to return if you change your mind.

The various brands of inverters have different features and performance. Sometimes mixing brands makes sense, and sometimes building a system around one brand is good due to how the components talk to each other.
You should plan and design what you want, including battery chemistry, charge controller which supports it, inverter which can be set for low-voltage shutdown that is good for battery, also size battery to deliver current inverter needs.

I have a larger system with 48V battery, all SMA equipment, and high voltage strings (about 380 Vmp) of PV panels (including 12V, 24V, 36V panels.)

Given that you're only doing 1 kW of PV and small loads at this time, you may want to use all low-cost equipment and get experience with it. That way if you build a large one later, you can switch brands without having tied up much money.

i did buy the panels and charge controller from amazon. I have a few weeks left to return them if I want. The thing is, I had purchased the best ones I could find and am not sure what would be better. Id gladly take a look at others. There are 200watt panels on amazon for about $30 more than what i purchased the 2 100w panels for. More $ but less wiring for connections. Is it very difficult to wire the 100w panels together? My husband will be doing it but it is my job to bring the system together. Thats why i probably sound abnormally clueless.

you brought up an interesting point. You have 12v, 24v and 36v panels. I did not know this was possible. I have 3 12v 100w polycrystalline panels currently. I do not think i should mix them in with this new setup. They will detract from the effieciency. I also have a 50w panel(dont know if mono or poly) which im sure may not be included either. I also have an mppt charge controller which was in use a while back but stopped working. Now we are thinking it may have been a wiring issue. We could try it again for use. I have 2 pwm cc's and a 1000w puresine wave inverter. I have 3 deep cycle agm gel batteries. They are on their third year. We are only utilizing 2 of them. Not sure how to test their health. If any components can still be used, it is already here.

where is sma sold? I checked out their website and did not see pricing. I want to be able to run a whole house. 2 bdr, 3 people. We can be very conservative because we are used to that. We have a powerful generator for large loads 7000w/9000w peak but that is so noisy and no one likes listening to it.

I just dont want to get a cheap inverter that will give me problems within a few months because it is cheaply made and it falls apart and then the customer service has a thick accent and we dont understand eachother. I would like an inverter charger to maintain the batteries on cloudy days. Is this necessary with LiFePO4? I took a look at the lithum battery advice page and it seems to like being at a partial charge. But for how long? And then should i not fully charge them? And it also mentioned they dont like to be in series although they can be if you check their levels periodically. I dont think ill worry about that since I now know i can keep them at 12v even if the panels are higher volt. If i keep them 12v im assuming that means i have a 12v system even if the panels are higher. If the panels are seriesed to 24v or higher like 48v, this will mean i need a 48v inverter? I know the 12v and 24v inverters are able to operate on either. Does that apply to all 24v or 12v inverters? That they are interchangeable.

can you recommend a good source to buy solar products?

 

[Hedges]

You ought to return the Amazon items. You can do much better with other sources.
Plan a design with PV panels, charge controller, inverter that work together with your batteries before buying any components.

The maximum PV input voltage of charge controller is a key parameter, and Voc of PV panels x number of panels in series has to be adjusted for record cold temperature of your location (which makes voltage about 15% to 20% higher) to check the design.

There are many vendors selling used commercial PV panels, taken off utility-scale PV plants or commercial rooftops. You will see some sellers on Craigslist. You can sort eBay results by distance. Here's one vendor many of us are happy with, SanTan Solar:

Solar Panels | SanTan Solar

store.santansolar.com

Large pallets ship by truck on a pallet, which can cost a couple hundred dollars. I save money by having them delivered to the trucking company's nearby freight yard and go with a pickup; they forklift pallet into the bed. If you have a hatchback what can fit the load, you could just transfer panels from pallet to your car.

Compared to $1000 for 10, 100W pallets, consider $200 shipping and $800 for 16, 250W panels at $50 each. That's 4000W of panels instead of 1000W.

SMA is top quality equipment that many people have been using for decades, both grid-tied and off-grid. However, it is one of the most expensive.

You could for instance assemble with 6000W SI-6048 US battery inverters (48VDC, 120VAC), two of them for 120/240VAC at $4780 each plus one 6000W Sunny Boy 6.0 US 41 PV inverter at $1300. (This is an AC coupled system. Your lithium battery should have an SMA-compatible BMS such as REC)
Alternative, one SI-6048 US at $4780 and one Midnight Solar Classic 150 charge controller for $925 (This is a DC coupled system. I think Midnight is OK with whatever BMS your battery uses.)

Here's one retail vendor, Alt E Store:

Alt E Store - Search Results for SMA

www.altestore.com

Product - MidNite Solar

MidNite Solar Product Page.

www.midnitesolar.com

You can probably make a much less expensive system that is quite good enough based on other brands people here use. Some are a hybrid inverter with PV, battery, and generator (or grid) inputs.

One key requirement is the largest motor you have to start. Refrigerator? Well pump? Air conditioner? Those typically draw 5x as much as nameplate rating for a fraction of a second. Not all inverters can start them. (Refrigerator rating includes a heater but motor is probably 200W or 300W, so starting surge might be 1000W or 1500W. But the others can take 5000W or 10,000W)

PV panel mounts - should tilt panels toward sun and be secure against blowing over. Screws into 2x4 lumber is one way. Brackets can be used to extend out from under panels for easy accessibility.

Solar Panel Z-Bracket (4 PACK) - SanTan Solar Store

The SP03 Solar Panel Z-Bracket (4 PACK) is a lightweight aluminum Z-Bracket designed for mounting solar panels to flat surfaces. Only $12.

store.santansolar.com

 

[Hedges]

Although SMA is expensive retail, there are some deals presently, liquidation due to bankruptcy of DC solar.
While it is fine to buy PV panels used, that would be more risky for inverters. Here's one that says "new open box", $2000 for SI-6048

SMA Sunny Island 6048 | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for SMA Sunny Island 6048 at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

Midnight Classic 250V/63A $400

MidNite Solar Classic 250 MPPT Solar Charge Controller - Black for sale online | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for MidNite Solar Classic 250 MPPT Solar Charge Controller - Black at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

That pair would cost $2400, produce 5750W continuous (11,000W surge), charge from PV up to about 3600W

 

[Tbleppy]

You ought to return the Amazon items. You can do much better with other sources.
Plan a design with PV panels, charge controller, inverter that work together with your batteries before buying any components.

The maximum PV input voltage of charge controller is a key parameter, and Voc of PV panels x number of panels in series has to be adjusted for record cold temperature of your location (which makes voltage about 15% to 20% higher) to check the design.

There are many vendors selling used commercial PV panels, taken off utility-scale PV plants or commercial rooftops. You will see some sellers on Craigslist. You can sort eBay results by distance. Here's one vendor many of us are happy with, SanTan Solar:

Solar Panels | SanTan Solar

store.santansolar.com

Large pallets ship by truck on a pallet, which can cost a couple hundred dollars. I save money by having them delivered to the trucking company's nearby freight yard and go with a pickup; they forklift pallet into the bed. If you have a hatchback what can fit the load, you could just transfer panels from pallet to your car.

Compared to $1000 for 10, 100W pallets, consider $200 shipping and $800 for 16, 250W panels at $50 each. That's 4000W of panels instead of 1000W.

SMA is top quality equipment that many people have been using for decades, both grid-tied and off-grid. However, it is one of the most expensive.

You could for instance assemble with 6000W SI-6048 US battery inverters (48VDC, 120VAC), two of them for 120/240VAC at $4780 each plus one 6000W Sunny Boy 6.0 US 41 PV inverter at $1300. (This is an AC coupled system. Your lithium battery should have an SMA-compatible BMS such as REC)
Alternative, one SI-6048 US at $4780 and one Midnight Solar Classic 150 charge controller for $925 (This is a DC coupled system. I think Midnight is OK with whatever BMS your battery uses.)

Here's one retail vendor, Alt E Store:

Alt E Store - Search Results for SMA

www.altestore.com

Product - MidNite Solar

MidNite Solar Product Page.

www.midnitesolar.com

You can probably make a much less expensive system that is quite good enough based on other brands people here use. Some are a hybrid inverter with PV, battery, and generator (or grid) inputs.

One key requirement is the largest motor you have to start. Refrigerator? Well pump? Air conditioner? Those typically draw 5x as much as nameplate rating for a fraction of a second. Not all inverters can start them. (Refrigerator rating includes a heater but motor is probably 200W or 300W, so starting surge might be 1000W or 1500W. But the others can take 5000W or 10,000W)

PV panel mounts - should tilt panels toward sun and be secure against blowing over. Screws into 2x4 lumber is one way. Brackets can be used to extend out from under panels for easy accessibility.

Solar Panel Z-Bracket (4 PACK) - SanTan Solar Store

The SP03 Solar Panel Z-Bracket (4 PACK) is a lightweight aluminum Z-Bracket designed for mounting solar panels to flat surfaces. Only $12.

store.santansolar.com

I found these panels:

JA Solar 405w Solar Panel 72 Cell JA-JAM72-S10-405MR - A1 Solar Store

JA Solar 405w Solar Panel 72 Cell JA-JAM72-S10-405MR features class leading power output that makes it ideal for any installations including commercial and rooftop systems. Look into detailed descriptions, reviews, pictures, at A1 Solar Store

a1solarstore.com

JA Solar 405 w panels 144 cells for $198.10 each. Shipping is $175 for up to 11 panels. So if I spent $800 on panels and $175 on shipping that would be around the thousand dollars I originally spent but I would have 1620 watts.

i can return the charge controller for $170. I will have the 4 12v 100Ah LiFePO4 batteries which need to be charged. The battery specs said between 300w to 600w of panels per battery to charge. Since I have 4 that would be 1200w to 2400w of panels.

if I keep the battries paralleld like my original plan that will require the thicker wires. What would be the benefit of doing 12v or 24v or 48v besides wiring specs. I think 24v is likely the way to go but im nervous about putting them in series because im unsure how to monitor them.

also, how would i do a dc fridge or freezer on the system if i wanted that?

does this all seem good so far?

ultimately, im thinking of a samlex 3000w inverter charger or the victron multiplus inverter charger or maybe a magnum. But 3000w is the sizing i am thinking. Any input is appreciated. Thanks!

 

[Dzl]

if I keep the battries paralleld like my original plan that will require the thicker wires. What would be the benefit of doing 12v or 24v or 48v besides wiring specs?

Apart from wiring, charge controller cost is the biggie. 1620W / 12V = ~135A, 1620 @ 24V = ~70A, 1620W @ 48V = ~35A

also, how would i do a dc fridge or freezer on the system if i wanted that?

Most DC fridges (check yours) are designed to operate at 12V or 24V. Alternatively you could/would use a DC-DC converter (24v to 12v) for all your 12V DC loads. This should factor into your cost and efficiency calculations, many people leave this out.

does this all seem good so far?

ultimately, im thinking of a samlex 3000w inverter charger or the victron multiplus inverter charger or maybe a magnum. But 3000w is the sizing i am thinking. Any input is appreciated. Thanks!

All are good reputable companies. I've heard good things about Samlex's tech support and they have great documentation. Victron is a good choice if you like their 'ecosystem' approach and might purchase other Victron products.

 

[Tbleppy]

Apart from wiring, charge controller cost is the biggie. 1620W / 12V = ~135A, 1620 @ 24V = ~70A, 1620W @ 48V = ~35A

Most DC fridges (check yours) are designed to operate at 12V or 24V. Alternatively you could/would use a DC-DC converter (24v to 12v) for all your 12V DC loads. This should factor into your cost and efficiency calculations, many people leave this out.

All are good reputable companies. I've heard good things about Samlex's tech support and they have great documentation. Victron is a good choice if you like their 'ecosystem' approach and might purchase other Victron products.

i have 4 405w panels coming now:

JA Solar 405w Solar Panel 144 Cell JA-JAM72-S10-405MR​

JA Solar 405w Solar Panel 72 Cell JA-JAM72-S10-405MR - A1 Solar Store

JA Solar 405w Solar Panel 72 Cell JA-JAM72-S10-405MR features class leading power output that makes it ideal for any installations including commercial and rooftop systems. Look into detailed descriptions, reviews, pictures, at A1 Solar Store

a1solarstore.com

im thinking of series them all for the 48v because i want the lesser losses with smaller cables. Not to mention 35a is cheaper than 70a for the cc. But mainly for the wiring and loss reduction. Im unsure where these will be located but it is highly possible it may be 100ft from the home. If you think thats a horrific idea, I could try to move it closer.

now that i have the panels and batteries i must figure out wiring, cc and inverter. I will need 1 y branch parallel connector if i do go the 24v route.

48v i wont need additional connections, right?

i was considering outback 60amp cc:

Off-Grid Solar Kits for Sale | GoGreenSolar

Shop complete off-grid solar systems from GoGreenSolar. Our off-grid solar kits are the easiest and most cost-effective way to go solar.

www.gogreensolar.com

the cc is also telling me go 48v. It says 24v max panels 1500w.

i found a battery charger for my batteries made by the battery manufacturer amperetime. It is specifically for charging lithium batteries and theres a 10amp for $130 and a 20 amp for $200:

Amazon.com

I think that will be cheaper than an inverter charger. Ill have to manually start my generator but that was already my plan anyway.

is this plan sounding solid so far? Room for improvement? Im still stuck on the inverter until i can decide on the 24v or 48v. Any advice on wiring is appreciated. Thanks!

 

[Hedges]

i have 4 405w panels coming now:

JA Solar 405w Solar Panel 144 Cell JA-JAM72-S10-405MR​

JA Solar 405w Solar Panel 72 Cell JA-JAM72-S10-405MR - A1 Solar Store

JA Solar 405w Solar Panel 72 Cell JA-JAM72-S10-405MR features class leading power output that makes it ideal for any installations including commercial and rooftop systems. Look into detailed descriptions, reviews, pictures, at A1 Solar Store

a1solarstore.com

im thinking of series them all for the 48v because i want the lesser losses with smaller cables. Not to mention 35a is cheaper than 70a for the cc. But mainly for the wiring and loss reduction. Im unsure where these will be located but it is highly possible it may be 100ft from the home. If you think thats a horrific idea, I could try to move it closer.

now that i have the panels and batteries i must figure out wiring, cc and inverter. I will need 1 y branch parallel connector if i do go the 24v route.

48v i wont need additional connections, right?

i was considering outback 60amp cc:

Off-Grid Solar Kits for Sale | GoGreenSolar

Shop complete off-grid solar systems from GoGreenSolar. Our off-grid solar kits are the easiest and most cost-effective way to go solar.

www.gogreensolar.com

the cc is also telling me go 48v. It says 24v max panels 1500w.

i found a battery charger for my batteries made by the battery manufacturer amperetime. It is specifically for charging lithium batteries and theres a 10amp for $130 and a 20 amp for $200:

Amazon.com

I think that will be cheaper than an inverter charger. Ill have to manually start my generator but that was already my plan anyway.

is this plan sounding solid so far? Room for improvement? Im still stuck on the inverter until i can decide on the 24v or 48v. Any advice on wiring is appreciated. Thanks!

The panels are 49.86Voc, so with Flexmax 60 having 145V/150V limit, you can't wire four panels in series. You need to wire them 2s2p.

https://www.outbackpower.com/downloads/documents/charge_controllers/flexmax_6080/specsheet.pdf

There are 250V charge controllers available, for instance from Midnight. But more expensive.
Probably cheaper to run thicker wire, or two runs of thinner wire (for 100', you could buy a 500' spool)

Y connection and series/parallel vs. all series isn't related to 24V/48V system choice, unless the higher voltage of series is needed for higher voltage battery. In this case, 2s2p is good for any battery voltage up to 48V.

 

[Tbleppy]

I could get a midnight kid:

Product - MidNite Solar

MidNite Solar Product Page.

www.midnitesolar.com

i

The panels are 49.86Voc, so with Flexmax 60 having 145V/150V limit, you can't wire four panels in series. You need to wire them 2s2p.

https://www.outbackpower.com/downloads/documents/charge_controllers/flexmax_6080/specsheet.pdf

There are 250V charge controllers available, for instance from Midnight. But more expensive.
Probably cheaper to run thicker wire, or two runs of thinner wire (for 100', you could buy a 500' spool)

Y connection and series/parallel vs. all series isn't related to 24V/48V system choice, unless the higher voltage of series is needed for higher voltage battery. In this case, 2s2p is good for any battery voltage up to 48V.

it would still require 2s2p but its around same pricepoint. But its 30a vs 60a for the outback.

would 30amps be adequate? Probably the outback sounds better. Seems to be within my pricepoint although i havent checked out shipping costs.

if i did 2s2p which i think i will, what are the specs of that? What do i need to know from that before buying the cc and inverter? Nd wires. What size wires will be required? Is it the bigger the better?

i need one y connecter piece. Then i need a cable that runs to the charge controller. Does that distancing matter? What size cable should that be and what are the required ends on it at each end?

then i need a cable going from cc to batteries. Does that distance matter? What size cableshould that be and the required ends at each end?

batteries run to inverter? Same cable question. Distance, size, ends?

from the inverter we just plug in from there. Dont have any questions after that. Right now we plug an extension cord into inverter which runs to the house and hooked up to our house outlets and lights. Im assuming this will be the same even though the system is substantially larger.

 

[Hedges]

2s2p:
Need a pair of Y, one each gender
Parallel panels adds current. Look up ohms/foot and calculate IR drop.
Panels in series adds voltage. Check Voc vs. SCC spec. Assume in cold Voc increases 20%, unless you calculate more accurately.
IR drop comes off series Vmp, that gives percentage power loss.

The Kid says 150Voc input, 30A output. It is half the price of the 250V Classic.

4 panels? x 405W = 1620W
1620W/30A = 54V
With a 48V battery, may clip output with ideal sun unless near fully charged. So good fit, but no room to add panels (except with more clipping.)
Aim one series pair of panels at 9:00 AM sun and one pair at 3:00 PM sun, peak will be only 0.7x as much, leaving some headroom.

 

[Hedges]

Batteries to inverter? As fat and short as possible.
Size fuse for 1.25x maximum continuous input current. Cable at least that large. Compute IR drop for peak surge current.
Terminals on the end depend on your inverter, battery/shunt/fuse/BMS etc.

 

[caymaanedge]

Return everything and spend a few weeks researching and designing your system.