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diy solar

12000xp off-grid setup overloads

killercarver

New Member
Joined
Mar 23, 2022
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44
Location
Virginia
21DEC2024: Overloading on full battery charge Issue below fixed for 12000XP with firmware 0405 for individual and paralleled systems. @ScrotpusGobbleBottom however reports this same issue on 6000XP for a DIY battery setup.

7DEC 2024: Long time lurker, first time poster. Engineer...Off-grid setup (no grid input or connection, though I can and do plan to hook up later).

Just had a 1x 6000XP running in this same setup without issue and am upgrading, or trying to...Got 2x 12000XPs to parallel with 4x EG4 wallmount batteries to share. Currently only hooked up 1x 12000XP to 4x batteries just like 6000XP just was and worked flawlessly. When batteries are fully charged or limiting charge, the unit will overload on the slightest load addition (normal is all of 500w). Letting the unit reset itself after overload goes right back into overload. If I turn OFF/disconnect PV, unit works fine from batteries. Plenty of sun out too...was charging batteries and loads with over 8k of PV before first overload and now that batteries are charged more (since it did when in overload), this is the pattern.
Did talk with Signature Solar tech support (bought system from another company though) and they thought it was a battery comms issue, and swapped battery type to 1. HinaESS; there's no option for EG4 like the manual says...I'm very frustrated.
I saw mention of a potential firmware on the 12000XP needed in another post but no meat in the discussion.
 
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Thank you @FilterGuy
For EG4, this is a continuation/new observation of ticket 85296. Second inverter I have was brought online replacing the first in that ticket. Batteries were at 75ish percent, charged at bit in the evening up to mid 90's but not fully/limiting charge at all. Started charging this morning with zero issues starting around 79% and everything was great....working as expected. Appears as soon as BMSes limited charge, something got confused?
 
I'm going to add more setup/observations for folks here, and I've put together some drawings and all too as we learn about these new units. I'm clearly invested in them, and see folks starting to run them on youtube and all seemingly without much issue...but appears we're guinea pigs again.

~~~
My current setup:
I was initially setting up for 2x 6000XPs in parallel, and then the 12000XPs dropped right as I ordered everything/got my first 6000XP in.
36x Hyperion 400W bifacials, setup in 4x arrays (9 panels each) which is a great balance for the 6000XP MPPTs and perfectly fine for 12000XP too
4x EG4 indoor wallmount batteries
1x 12000XPs

1x Main Panel in the house. Neutral/Ground currently tied in the inverter, which will change in final setup.

~~~
My final setup:
I was initially setting up for 2x 6000XPs in parallel, and then the 12000XPs dropped right as I ordered everything/got my first 6000XP in.
36x Hyperion 400W bifacials, setup in 4x arrays (9 panels each) which is a great balance for the MPPTs
4x EG4 indoor wallmount batteries
2x 12000XPs

1x Combiner panel with 100A breakers per inverters (in case of grid pass mode) that will feed a 200A manual transfer switch
1x Utility panel for incoming utility with 100A breakers to inverters (grid pass mode driving this...) and a 200A breaker feeding a manual transfer switch
1x 200A manual transfer switch to enable switching from utility to combiner panel (all neutrals will be tied and all grounds will be tied separately; ground/neutral box happens outside at a utility disconnect panel already on the house for me)
1x Main panel for all of the house/shop
*This allows utility to run the main panel completely OR have utility feed inverters and feed through them with solar and batteries in use too, or not OR run completely off grid.
~~~

***
The manual needs improvement for sure, or to at least match the actual unit; and no manual shipped with either inverter (and one didn't have the small angle wall mount brackets for the bottom either so...hmm...being worked through retailer)
1. Battery settings say to select EG4, but firmware on the unit does not list EG4 as an option. (Lux manual for the SNA 12k doesn't either). Default is option 6. Lux. Signature/EG4 had me change the config to option 1. HinaESS, which is supposed to work with EG4 wallmount BMS and enable RSD to function correctly. There was some debate/not full agreement between the techs I've talked to about option 0. Standard and if it could be used; but agreement on option 1. HinaESS.

2. Section 16 for start-up and shut-down needs a good scrub as its doesn't match breakers on unit and is out of order per tech instructions, and this assumes only one inverter with multiple batteries; I'm not sure how this should change with paralleled inverters:
Use 6000XP manual


3. There's a lot of options in the EG4 app vs monitoring webpage vs inverter itself that do not match, have zero explanation, or aren't aligned.
***
 
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So there was no neutral/ground bond in the house load center? BTW your start-up and shutdown list is incorrect.
 
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@TM48 Correct; currently no neutral/ground bond in home load center. When I connect the utility into the system, the bond will be at the first point of entry for the utility.

Would love insight into what's wrong or out of order with the startup and shutdown list. The one in the manual leaves a lot to be desired...
 
The 6000xp manual was correct in the order. I wouldn't get so wrapped up in the exact order. Some don't matter at all but I think it is important to turn the EPS switch on after the inverter is initialized and powered up. Also did you check to be sure the load center wasn't bonded? Many come bonded out of the box. Double bonding has shown to cause strange issues with these inverters. I would bond the panel and remove the inverter bond right now. BTW what power were you using before you recieved the inverter?
 
No bond at all is worse than double bonds.
Check your battery discharge limit is not set too low, seems to be a default setting that has caused "overload" issues with the 6000xp.
 
@TM48 Yes, verified that load center has no ground/neutral bond and it's a new load center. I was just using a 6000xp in this same setup with zero issues (and it took was ground/neutral bonded internal); but I will add the bond in the load center and turn it off in the unit. I'll take a swing back at the 6000xp manual. Will report back after batteries are charged up if this changed anything.

@Quattrohead Discharge limit set at 250A out of factory per settings.

More info to chew on....and again this thing was just working 6DEC evening (charging batteries and powering loads included well pump with zero issues) through 7DEC morning until it hit overload around 11am. Now it won't power loads when PV has sunlight, happily charges batteries from PV, and if I remove PV will happily power loads from battery. Here's a kicker...if I turn the load breaker off (smart load is off too; never been on), it will code 28/overload. I know techs were hyper focused on battery comms so I tried the inverter on option 6. Lux and changed main battery CAN also to Lux; same problem. Put everything back to way EG4 techs had setup and currently charging batteries at 10KW, and when charged, I'll turn off PV and run from battery.
 
Yeah it sounds like a firmware issue. Maybe it won't take too long for them to update. I noticed the newest app still doesn't reference the 12000s yet. (1.4.2)
 
Holy....
So I absolutely know as heck I checked the ground/neutral bond before applying power to load center and it was good...inverter was doing the bonding. Before installing the bonding screw I thought I'd check again and you can see the thing pulsing between connected and not. This is while EPS is off and Load Breaker is off on inverter while it was charging batteries. Seeing that, I checked for potential: 0VAC but constant 20VDC. Didn't expect that either, but there's a lot of electronics and they do sometimes leak to their negative, which often gets tied to ground in consumer electronics; and it's likely "ghost" voltage. Verified that when neutral/ground in inverter is turned off/disabled, there is no bond (and that's right for me, off-grid setup). Put bonding screw in to panel, verified good bond, and power cycles entire system and batteries. Started system back up and came up working as expected! For about 3 minutes when it overloaded again....but, still a win as it's not instant like it was. Letting it reset and it'll be fine, and I can add some load like a few lights; but add something like the 1hp 240v well pump and overload. I did go back and play with battery settings in inverter (started in 1.HinaESS, and tried 0. Standard with batteries set in EG4/Lux in CAN; inverter 6. Lux and batteries in both EG4/Lux and option 6 Lux; put everything back to inverter 1. HinaESS and battery EG4/Lux). Batteries at 100% so turned off PV to run from batteries for rest of day, unless someone has ideas. I'm open/willing to trying system in open comms but need to find settings for that.
 
Are you sure your ground (PE) and neutral have good continuity back to the load center? Also do you have both sets of battery cables installed?
 
@TM48 Connections are good, and I expect continuity is good from inverter bus bars to load center or I'd expect to see a slew of other problems in the house... But I'll happily check. Yes, using two sets of the 2/0 battery cables provided with batteries to feed the battery terminals, and ferrules on the flying lead end. Other batteries (2 and 3) are tied to the master bus bar, and #4 is tied to #3's bus bar.

Ran batteries down to 95% and brought solar back online late in the evening; was pulling in 500ish watts, while loads were around 700w, 2100ish if I hit the well pump and system has been working fine. Solar not enough to keep up. System continuing to work fine this evening taking whatever I throw at it. I'm suspect system will be fine in the morning as battery charge, but overload again as batteries reduce their desired charge rate....think I still have a battery comms issue. We'll see and I'll report back in morning (working from home).
 
@TM48 removed bonding screw and verified 0 ohm neutral bar to neutral bar between inverter and panel; and same for ground. Open between neutral and ground. Added bonding screw back, torqued, and verified 0 ohm between neutral and grounds. System back in line with zero issue; waiting on sun in the morning. Appreciate your help/insight/sanity check.
 
@TM48 removed bonding screw and verified 0 ohm neutral bar to neutral bar between inverter and panel; and same for ground. Open between neutral and ground. Added bonding screw back, torqued, and verified 0 ohm between neutral and grounds. System back in line with zero issue; waiting on sun in the morning. Appreciate your help/insight/sanity check.
Sounds good. Looks like they didn't finish the firmware before releasing the 12000xp. People were clamoring for them but they shouldn't have let it out the door quite so early. I'm sure the issue has a high priority so I doubt it will be long before a fix is available. I noticed the documentation isn't on the website yet and like you indicated there is no EG4 settings for the batteries.
 
Sounds good. Looks like they didn't finish the firmware before releasing the 12000xp. People were clamoring for them but they shouldn't have let it out the door quite so early. I'm sure the issue has a high priority so I doubt it will be long before a fix is available. I noticed the documentation isn't on the website yet and like you indicated there is no EG4 settings for the batteries.
Sounds like a rebate is needed for the oops. :ROFLMAO:
 
Everything normal/operating as expected so far this morning. It's a overcast day, pulling in a out 2kw of solar (280vdc showing on panels) and slowly charging up batteries; currently at 79%. I can freely add loads with no issue. If clouds break and we get some good sun/charge, my gut is still telling me I'll see an overload when batteries start to limit charge. We'll see...
 
End of day decent sunlight report....
I did forget to mention that I did update firmware on unit early this morning with a power cycle of system as CEAA-0304 dropped that is supposed to contain MPPT updates (to fix some folks 120VDC charging problem, and I'm guessing more). Still no EG4 battery option.

Was rainy/overcast this morning, but broken clouds and slight overcast afternoon by mostly full sun late in the evening here in VA. Crazy that at around 3:30pm solar drops quick...shrug.

Battery bank got charged up to 98%, and is now sharing with rest of solar to cover my 300-500W of load currently. BMS charge rate dropped from 800a all the way down to 160a; at 160a the dongle bluetooth stopped working as I was watching things through local connect via bluetooth as it updates quicker. Bluetooth still not visible even if i go stand next to the unit...so another things to watch?? BMS charge rate is back up to 320A as I type this. We did not reach a full charge today, so couldn't observe if there's still a potential issue when battery bank gets full. Currently, system responds to whatever load I give it as it should.
 
End of day decent sunlight report....
I did forget to mention that I did update firmware on unit early this morning with a power cycle of system as CEAA-0304 dropped that is supposed to contain MPPT updates (to fix some folks 120VDC charging problem, and I'm guessing more). Still no EG4 battery option.

Was rainy/overcast this morning, but broken clouds and slight overcast afternoon by mostly full sun late in the evening here in VA. Crazy that at around 3:30pm solar drops quick...shrug.

Battery bank got charged up to 98%, and is now sharing with rest of solar to cover my 300-500W of load currently. BMS charge rate dropped from 800a all the way down to 160a; at 160a the dongle bluetooth stopped working as I was watching things through local connect via bluetooth as it updates quicker. Bluetooth still not visible even if i go stand next to the unit...so another things to watch?? BMS charge rate is back up to 320A as I type this. We did not reach a full charge today, so couldn't observe if there's still a potential issue when battery bank gets full. Currently, system responds to whatever load I give it as it should.
That's an improvement on the load at least. Fingers crossed on the 100% error.
 
Two days without enough sun to charge batteries all the way up, and system worked great. Sharing solar and battery power with small loads being covered completely by solar and larger loads or surges sharing battery until the larger draw or surge subsided. I also brought the 2nd inverter back online, verified it worked correctly with solar and battery, and it did; I updated it to the latest 0304 firmware. I went ahead and paralleled the two 12000XPs and that was a very simple process. There's a positive noticeable difference when the 1HP well pump kicks on as the lights hardly blink vs one 12000XP. Pretty happy!

Today is full sun, and at 98ish% as battery BMS is really limiting charge, EPS Overload. I let system reset itself. The 12000XPs appear to put out a bit of output to sync (I did not measure if this was actual output on the load, but you hear a click, can see both inverter screens show AC output at like 23W) and then come back online together. No issue when I was on a light load (500w, my normal load) and added light loads that I'm guess were within the solar's capability (add a light or few lights, etc); the well pump though again caused an EPS overload and when system reset, it reset right back into an overload; the surge/start is more than solar can provide. PV panels turned off, system came up just fine off of just batteries. So I'm back to my original problem: when batteries are near fully or fully charged and the sun is out, the system will overload. There's no battery setting for EG4 batteries in the latest 0304 firmware. (inverters set to 1. HinaESS as directed by techs; batteries set to 1. EG4/Lux). And yes, ground/neutral physical bond is in my main panel and I verified 0 ohm continuity (verified after during an EPS reset) since I/we've discovered that 12000XPs won't hold this bond internally. @EG4TechSolutionsTeam
 

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