123 Smart BMS

[Dzl]

Just watched this video:

I believe I can see the connection you are saying must be soldered by the end user or installer.

 

[David Pocock]

I have the 123SmartBMS. Yes, you do have to solder a wire to the board. This, surely, is a fairly basic electrical skill, mastered in about ten minutes on some scrap wire if you haven't done it before. People use very different sized prismatic cells which will have differing diameter taps on the terminal. If a standard wire was supplied you might find it too small or too large to fit the ring terminal needed to fit the tap.

I've had great before and after-sales support from 123Electric with all my emails being answered thoroughly within 24 hours. My set-up (3rd generation) is fairly new but, so far, is working perfectly.

 

[David Pocock]

Also: The bms requires additional small gauge solid copper cabling to properly connect -- again, you must supply this yourself.

The worst thing about the install process is that teeny tiny dip switches must be flipped several times to properly configure the BMS. And when I say tiny, I had to use my iphone camera as a magnification device. I ended up wearing the switches out just trying to flip them. It's a total mess.

Wire was supplied with mine.

 

[David Pocock]

Also: The bms requires additional small gauge solid copper cabling to properly connect -- again, you must supply this yourself.

The worst thing about the install process is that teeny tiny dip switches must be flipped several times to properly configure the BMS. And when I say tiny, I had to use my iphone camera as a magnification device. I ended up wearing the switches out just trying to flip them. It's a total mess.

The dip switches are small and you do need magnification but I moved one dip switch once for Vbalance for 4S and that was it.

 

[David Pocock]

I have the 123SmartBMS. Yes, you do have to solder a wire to the board. This, surely, is a fairly basic electrical skill, mastered in about ten minutes on some scrap wire if you haven't done it before. People use very different sized prismatic cells which will have differing diameter taps on the terminal. If a standard wire was supplied you might find it too small or too large to fit the ring terminal needed to fit the tap.

I've had great before and after-sales support from 123Electric with all my emails being answered thoroughly within 24 hours. My set-up (3rd generation) is fairly new but, so far, is working perfectly.

See the size of wire that this guy needed to use, for example.

 

[berksrunner]

JBD Smart BMS seems like a pretty solid budget oriented BMS, and Overkill Solar seems like a pretty solid and straight up seller. Glad you're happy with it so far.

Regarding your impression with the 123BMS, thanks for sharing your feedback/impression. Do you recall what version of their BMS you were using? If the current version still requires soldering and provisioning extra components, sounds like its not very well suited for beginners or those seeking simple systems. But I wonder if these issues have been improved in recent versions? As for the dip switches, could this configuration not be done in the bluetooth app?

No, you must use the dip switches. And check out the reviews of the app. For the $$, I really think they should be offering a more solid product

 

[David Pocock]

As for the dip switches, could this configuration not be done in the bluetooth app?

The number of cells and the Vbalance is set by dip switches. If you have a 4S configuration then there is no switch to move for cell number. I moved one dip switch once in my set-up.

V min, V max, T min, T max, Charge restart, Discharge restart, Capacity options and a choice of normal or critical mode are made through the app.

 

[nigelivy]

I've recently installed the 123 Smart BMS into a new Winston LiFePO4 battery pack for my campervan.

I'm based in Ireland and purchased the whole kit from GWL in the Czech Republic.

Either I've been very unlucky or the 123 Smart BMS system is not that stable/not that well tested before leaving the manufacturer.
I had a problem with one of the "Between boards" not working when I first went to install the system and I landed up actually just ordering a new replacement Between board and paying for it outright because that turned out cheaper than sending the faulty product back to GWL (shipping at my expense) and for them to repair it/replace it and send it back to me (again, shipping would have been at my expense).

I just got the replacement Between board yesterday and put it all together. The BMS now "works", HOWEVER I also bought the Smart Relay from GWL and this now seems to be faulty as well! I cannot get it to work at all. I am able to run a load through the Load relay, but cannot get the Charge relay to work at all. I also suspect that the End board on the 123 Smart BMS might be faulty as well as it's meant to have outputs for the relay/chargers/inverters, but the output for the Charge relay is only outputting 8v (on a 12v system, it's meant to put out same as your battery voltage). I thought this might be the problem, but when I was doing some tests, even putting the signal cable from the Charge relay onto the battery's positive terminal, which should turn the Charge relay on and allow the charger to charge the battery, it does not turn the Charge relay on. None of the LEDs on the Charge relay work either, which would indicate to me that there is a fault.
I contacted GWL yesterday about these issues, but as yet have not received a response (one full working day since I emailed them).

At this point in time, I've spent more than $500 in total for the products I've bought, replacements & shipping and I have a BMS that JUST tells me what the batteries are doing with no extras like having a working relay to stop load/charge when those limit thresholds are met, etc. I liked the idea of having a "smarter" system with these relays, but my "smarter" system doesn't work so I have an expensive system that does the very basics.

If I go through the motions of sending the faulty products back to GWL and by what I read of their returns policies, etc.. it'll probably cost me close to about $100 for the shipping back and forth IF they replace/fix the faulty products for free.

P.S. Right now I would not recommend these products to anyone and I feel there are much better, cheaper options out there. If my experience changes, I'll let you know in this thread.

 

[berksrunner]

Thanks for your input. Definitely avoid! I still can't believe the amount of money I wasted with nothing but some damaged cells to show for it.

 

[David Pocock]

I'm still completely happy with my Generation 3 123SmartBMS and Smart relays. If you have questions it is better to deal direct with 123 Electric rather than GWL. I've always had full answers within 24 hours.

 

[100kwh-hunter]

Hmmmm i was about to buy the 123smart incl a expansion board and relays(48v600a)
I can not speak for 123 electric, but my experience with gwl:
I am trying to get them my to answer my quistion after the figured out that there are things in my shopping cart:
Hello i am...from gwl how can i help you to complete your shopping cart?
My answer 3 times with the description of my system:
Hello can you make my bms complete so it can work as a stand alone? with over and discharge protections?

It seems also that for every solar charger you must have a different relay??, why not cut the whole pack with one relay?
Or am i completely wrong..
And several boards to attach?

I think for a bit of more money i will buy the batrium for lifepo4, very fast answers and very good product...
Simple and easy installation
But the import taxes are killing.
And no tax refund...
Why the heck i sold it....shoot me..

I will try 123 electric, just give it a go, if you dont take the shot, its always a miss...
With best regards

 

[Dzl]

Hmmmm i was about to buy the 123smart incl a expansion board and relays(48v600a)
I can not speak for 123 electric, but my experience with gwl:
I am trying to get them my to answer my quistion after the figured out that there are things in my shopping cart:
Hello i am...from gwl how can i help you to complete your shopping cart?
My answer 3 times with the description of my system:
Hello can you make my bms complete so it can work as a stand alone? with over and discharge protections?

I am not sure if this would help or not but it may be in your best interest to try to simplify and clarify your language. GWL is a Czech company I think, English is a second or third language probably, and while I think I understand what you are asking, the above question was somewhat hard to interpret and I am a native English speaker.

It seems also that for every solar charger you must have a different relay??, why not cut the whole pack with one relay?
Or am i completely wrong..

I think you have either option right? (either directly switch the devices if they are capable or buy the external relay board)

Best of luck with your purchase and design, whichever option you choose to go with.

 

[100kwh-hunter]

I am not sure if this would help or not but it may be in your best interest to try to simplify and clarify your language. GWL is a Czech company I think, English is a second or third language probably, and while I think I understand what you are asking, the above question was somewhat hard to interpret and I am a native English speaker.

Yes, i totally agree.
The Czech, Polish, Bulgarian and ect people from the Slavic corner, most of them have difficulties to speak or write English:
Due to two reasons,
English is/was not mandatory at schools, Russian was.
And due to there own language (writing and pronunciation) it is very difficult for them.
The same applies for me(native Dutch) to speak(forget writing) Polish Bulgarian or Russian.

For myself i have trouble with the technical English in this subject, technical English in other subjects, due to learning experience has become a no brainer for me, i will catch up.
Special thanks to be honest!!!!! it is appreciated

and while I think I understand what you are asking, the above question was somewhat hard to interpret and I am a native English speaker.

I means to me that i am close? but i know it needs improvement, i am still working on it.
Btw: you have the queens UK English, us of a English, Australian English

Back to the subject:
123smart, i understand no product is perfect and there are some "Monday morning" things.
They sell a lot, probably we hear about that 1% that went wrong.
People with enough electronics understanding probably solve those problems themselves and you dont hear them.

I will take your advice and simplify my question and give it one more go, but it does not take away that 1-2% stuff that is faulty.

Thanks, with best regards Igor

 

[nigelivy]

I'm still completely happy with my Generation 3 123SmartBMS and Smart relays. If you have questions it is better to deal direct with 123 Electric rather than GWL. I've always had full answers within 24 hours.

I've given up waiting for responses from GWL and have contacted 123 Electric directly. I've been waiting for a response from GWL for 3 days now and I suspect that I will never get a response. I've had other emails to them that they have never responded to. I have yet to be able to get the product working as it is designed to, so hopefully the manufacturer can help to do that, or at least help disagnose if there is a fault.
I'm also hoping that the manufacturer might replace faulty products so I don't have to deal with GWL to get them replaced because I have little faith that they will replace anything faulty based on my experience thus far.

It seems also that for every solar charger you must have a different relay??, why not cut the whole pack with one relay?
Or am i completely wrong..
And several boards to attach?

I don't see why you'd need a different relay for each charge controller unless you were exceeding the capacity of the relay (e.g. 100amp). It seems crazy to me to have multiple relays unless you're exceeding the capacity.

From my experience of GWL, I would go with another supplier. I've had a TERRIBLE experience from them in support and not replying to emails for days and sometimes never replying at all. I will not buy from them again after this experience and would highly recommend that you look for another supplier. There are multiple suppliers of the 123 Electric Smart BMS in Europe and their pricing/shipping is all very similar to GWL.

 

[BenCos18]

I've used GWL a few times also (Have their CPM board and some relays from them in my system atm)
they do get back to you just I've found they take a while to reply to you (ended up messaging them in skype which got me a reply a lot quicker for some reason lol)

 

[nigelivy]

Hi folks. Thought I'd update you on where I'm at with the 123 Smart BMS.

After having used it in my camper for a couple of months now (including a 2 week trip), I actually really like it! I've found it to be very stable (once installed) and has a lot of functionality that I really like! I really like the app on my iPhone and enjoy using it.

Manufacturer
I've had a lot of interaction with 123 Electric (the manufacturers), who have been VERY helpful, fast to respond and extremely pleasant to deal with. I landed up sending them a couple of components that I had problems with. They replaced one of Between Boards (which was faulty) and repaired the End Board (which had had a short damage, which might have been me unknowingly or the reseller?). They did this and posted it back to me from the Netherlands free of charge and very efficiently. The only delay was due to postal delays over Christmas. But to summarise, I can't recommend them more highly as a company. I interacted with Sebastiaan and he was a pleasure - very knowledgable, lots of advise and very friendly. I would definitely consider working with them in future after this experience.

Reseller
I have had very little interaction and response from GWL (the resellers I bought all my gear from), so am still very disappointed with them. Based on my experience, I will not buy from them again and cannot recommend them at all.

Hardware
In terms of the actual hardware, once it's installed I've found it to be very robust and has some nice features. It's clear that they are improving it as there's already been 3 firmware updates since I installed mine, so clearly they're ironing out issues. I like being able to close the relays in the app to cut off load/charge from the battery remotely. The app is nicely laid out and has some great information in it, like seeing the charge/load currents, etc..
HOWEVER, I probably wouldn't recommend it to a beginner or someone that doesn't have reasonable electrical knowledge. I don't consider myself an expert, but I know my way around a soldering iron and electrical installations. I think this is a fairly advanced system to install given how much you need to do to install it. It's definitely not an all in one unit like Daly where you just crimp some terminals onto your balancing leads, connect it all up and you're good to go. With the 123 Smart BMS, to install onto a 4 cell 12v battery system, you need to solder connecting wires onto all four of the circuit boards and install communication wires between the boards and this installation is fairly intricate and you need to be careful not to short parts of the circuitry. If you choose to get the Smart Relays, then you need to connect even more wires into the circuitry and again ensure you don't short anything.

Value For Money
Is it worth the money? Given that you can buy 3-4 Daly Smart or Overkill BMS for the same money, I'm not sure it is worth the money. I don't think that the "extra functionality" you get with this is worth the extra money compared to a Daly or Overkill. I'll still continue to use is as I have installed it successfully and it's working well, but if I was starting out, I'd probably just stick with a Daly or Overkill.

 

[nigelivy]

Hi folks. Thought I'd update you on where I'm at with the 123 Smart BMS.

After having used it in my camper for a couple of months now (including a 2 week trip), I actually really like it! I've found it to be very stable (once installed) and has a lot of functionality that I really like! I really like the app on my iPhone and enjoy using it.

Manufacturer
I've had a lot of interaction with 123 Electric (the manufacturers), who have been VERY helpful, fast to respond and extremely pleasant to deal with. I landed up sending them a couple of components that I had problems with. They replaced one of Between Boards (which was faulty) and repaired the End Board (which had had a short damage, which might have been me unknowingly or the reseller?). They did this and posted it back to me from the Netherlands free of charge and very efficiently. The only delay was due to postal delays over Christmas. But to summarise, I can't recommend them more highly as a company. I interacted with Sebastiaan and he was a pleasure - very knowledgable, lots of advise and very friendly. I would definitely consider working with them in future after this experience.

Reseller
I have had very little interaction and response from GWL (the resellers I bought all my gear from), so am still very disappointed with them. Based on my experience, I will not buy from them again and cannot recommend them at all.

General Experience
Apart from the experience of dealing with the companies involved, in terms of the actual hardware, once it's installed it is very robust and has some nice features. It's clear that they are pushing it and improving it as there's already been 3 firmware updates since I installed mine, so clearly they're ironing out issues. I like being able to close the relays in the app to cut off load/charge from the battery. The app is nicely laid out and has some great information in it, like seeing the charge/load currents, etc..
HOWEVER, I probably wouldn't recommend it to a beginner or someone that doesn't have reasonable electrical knowledge. I'm no expert, but I know my way around a soldering iron and electrical installations and I think this is a fairly advanced system to install. For example, to install this BMS onto a 4 cell 12v battery system, you need to solder connecting wires onto all four of the circuit boards and install communication wires between the boards and this installation is fairly intricate and you need to be careful not to short parts of the circuitry. If you choose to get the Smart Relays, then you need to connect even more wires into the circuitry and again ensure you don't short anything.

Value For Money
Is it worth the money? Given that you can buy 3-4 Daly Smart or Overkill BMS for the same money, I'm not sure it is worth the money. I don't think that the "extra functionality" you get with this is worth the extra money compared to a Daly or Overkill. I'll still continue to use is as I have installed it successfully and it's working well, but if I was starting out, I'd probably just stick with a Daly or Overkill.

 

[123Sebastiaan]

Hi Nigel,

Thank you for your review. We are constantly improving the 123\SmartBMS. As some have noticed recently, we have splitted the minimum temperature threshold in Tmin discharge and Tmin charge as requested. This change is available through the latest firmware update for gen3 (gen2 has no firmware update function so we could not add this to gen2).
Besides this improvement, we have added the option to manually force off the signal relays for allow to charge and/or allow to discharge and also added some SoC estimation improvements in the new firmware.

Gen3 will get a hardware update so soldering is not needed anymore. We are adding a connector on the minus pad to just plug in the minus cable. This will be available within several months.

We understand that some of our competitors are cheaper, partly because of the place of manufacturing (labour in China vs. labour in The Netherlands) and that we work with dealers vs. direct sales. We will see what we can do to reduce this difference and will try to keep adding value through updates.

Sebastiaan - 123electric

 

[Freshwaterdiver1]

Hi folks. Thought I'd update you on where I'm at with the 123 Smart BMS.

After having used it in my camper for a couple of months now (including a 2 week trip), I actually really like it! I've found it to be very stable (once installed) and has a lot of functionality that I really like! I really like the app on my iPhone and enjoy using it.

Manufacturer
I've had a lot of interaction with 123 Electric (the manufacturers), who have been VERY helpful, fast to respond and extremely pleasant to deal with. I landed up sending them a couple of components that I had problems with. They replaced one of Between Boards (which was faulty) and repaired the End Board (which had had a short damage, which might have been me unknowingly or the reseller?). They did this and posted it back to me from the Netherlands free of charge and very efficiently. The only delay was due to postal delays over Christmas. But to summarise, I can't recommend them more highly as a company. I interacted with Sebastiaan and he was a pleasure - very knowledgable, lots of advise and very friendly. I would definitely consider working with them in future after this experience.

Reseller
I have had very little interaction and response from GWL (the resellers I bought all my gear from), so am still very disappointed with them. Based on my experience, I will not buy from them again and cannot recommend them at all.

General Experience
Apart from the experience of dealing with the companies involved, in terms of the actual hardware, once it's installed it is very robust and has some nice features. It's clear that they are pushing it and improving it as there's already been 3 firmware updates since I installed mine, so clearly they're ironing out issues. I like being able to close the relays in the app to cut off load/charge from the battery. The app is nicely laid out and has some great information in it, like seeing the charge/load currents, etc..
HOWEVER, I probably wouldn't recommend it to a beginner or someone that doesn't have reasonable electrical knowledge. I'm no expert, but I know my way around a soldering iron and electrical installations and I think this is a fairly advanced system to install. For example, to install this BMS onto a 4 cell 12v battery system, you need to solder connecting wires onto all four of the circuit boards and install communication wires between the boards and this installation is fairly intricate and you need to be careful not to short parts of the circuitry. If you choose to get the Smart Relays, then you need to connect even more wires into the circuitry and again ensure you don't short anything.

Value For Money
Is it worth the money? Given that you can buy 3-4 Daly Smart or Overkill BMS for the same money, I'm not sure it is worth the money. I don't think that the "extra functionality" you get with this is worth the extra money compared to a Daly or Overkill. I'll still continue to use is as I have installed it successfully and it's working well, but if I was starting out, I'd probably just stick with a Daly or Overkill.

Thanks for the review Nigel - I'll be looking at their offering and Overkill given that i am not the only one having issues with Daly Quality just now.

 

[ixoixo]

Hi, I would like to ask you for you opinion about strange and frustrating status of my new BMS 123 Smart, gen 3. It can communicate only with 4 modules. Dipswitches at "Begin" module are configured for 5-8 cells (0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0). Wiring beteween module 4 and 5 was replaced. Modules 4 and 5 were interchanged, but communication between module 4 and 5 is still not working, status is the same.
Is there some mistake on my side, or is this mallfunction of BMS? Maybe, @123Sebastiaan is able to judge it quickly..?
Thank you for your support!