12v All in one Inverter charger for Europe RV

[Rod8s]

Hi All,

I'm from Ireland and a complete newbie now utilizing many hours of you tube tutorials during quarantine time.
Currently I'm researching van conversions and trying to choose suitable components for a 12v system.(Solar/Shore/Alternator)
After watching Will's video on MPP all in one systems for beginners I have looked into a number of options however I'm struggling to find a suitable comparison for Europe due to 220-240 shore power and without going up to 24v ?

For example:

- The MPP PIP 1012LV (Advertised by will) may not be suitable in Europe due to only 120VaC?

- Xantrax Freedom XC pro 2000/3000 looks like a great unit also 120VaC (also may require a separate MPPT charge controller for solar?)

-The Victron MultiPlus II 12/3000/120v (2x120vac) may be the closest match with my limited knowledge so far. But expensive

I am continuing to educate myself but if anyone provide any advise in this choice it would be a great help?

Thanks

Rod

 

[Rogerb]

Hi @Rod8s, welcome to the forum.
As you have noted with the 3 inverters in your post, they are 120v AC for North America.
You will need one for 230v for Europe.
You will also need to total up your wattage requirements to get an accurate picture of what you might need for an inverter/charger/battery(Ah).
Going with a 3000W inverter would be the upper limit for a 12v system. E.g. https://www.victronenergy.com/inverters-chargers/multiplus-ii
Don't be put off by the fact it says 10kw, the datasheet lists all sizes. You'd want the 12/3000/120-32 (230v): https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Datasheet-MultiPlus-II-inverter-charger-EN.pdf
Mind you, these are just some examples, and looking at MPP Solar site, It seems you need to go to 24v to get a 3kw inverter for 230v.

MPP Solar Inc » Inverter Selection Guide

www.mppsolar.com

As for Xantrex, theirs also only start at 24v for European standards: https://www.xantrex.com/power-products/inverter-chargers/overview.aspx
Victron is expensive, but they are considered the best of the best (I have 2, so I might be biased ?)
Best of luck in your search and solar education! ?
Roger

 

[Rod8s]

Hi Roger,

My Education might just be heading in the right direction.
Your comments give me confidence in the little I've learnt so far.

I will investigate Victron further as it does seem the best compatibility for Europe.

Thanks

 

[mikefitz]

Hi Rod,
I am based in the UK and have a wide knowledge base on suitable equipment for leisure vehicles.
If you give me a rough idea of your requirements and vehicle make and year I will be able to offer advice.
As it seems an inverter will be requited an idea of the typical loading would be useful.

Mike

 

[Rod8s]

Hi Mike, I'm currently in the planning and research stage however I'm looking towards the Mercedes Sprinter.
Although the load is not yet calculated ill take any advise I can.
Ill require all the usual requirements Fridge microwave TV fans & lights, with laptops phones & camera to charge etc.
But would like to optimize the solar shore line and alternator as much as possible.
I am steering towards installing an undercarriage propane tank as UK bottles are not interchangeable on the mainland and it seems like a good idea that its safely outside and saves space..
This may offset some of the power requirements when it comes to water heater and cooking.
From most of the reviews I've looked at people end up upgrading. Id like to avoid that if I can or be prepared for it.

 

[Theo74]

Hi Rod8s,

Take in mind that most RV used electronics are 12V based, and therefore do not need 230V.
You could add 12V powered USB outlets in the RV, for all your smartphones, camera's, ect.
The fridge most probably can do 12V, gas, or 230V. So in off-grid situation, the 230V option 'can' be left.
Mainly your microwave, laptop charger, and maybe things like an e-bike charger can only work with 230V.

You should make a list of all 230V-only equipment, with their consumed power (Watts), and how long the need to run.
For example: your microwave might be a big one, but it only needs full power for about 1-5 minutes, not all day...
The reason for this list, is to determine how big the multi charger/inverter must be, to supply the required currents.
And next to this, how big the RV battery must be, to supply the required currents to the inverter, and to the 12V loads.

In basic: the power what goes out of the inverter, also needs to go in. Plus a small amounth of efficiency loss.
You can use the simple formula: Power (W) = Voltage (U) x Current (I)
When the mirowave uses 5 amps at 230V, this is 5Ax230V=1150Watt. 1150Watt/12V =96A into the 12V/230V inverter.
In this case you would need a suitbale inverter of about 1500W, and a battery which can deliver 125A continuous.
And when running the microwave, using the laptop, and maybe a bike charger, your inverter needs to be even bigger.

Victron is indeed a often used and reliable brand when it comes to RV electronics. They make very good multi chargers.
They are simple to install, easy to program with Bluetooth and the Victron app, and overall no to expensive.

When demanding quite some power from a bigger inverter, you probabaly should consider a Lithium based battery.
Lead acid batteries are heavy, limited in higer currents, and can only be discharged for about 50% of their capacity.
For example the often spoken over LiFePO4 batteries, they are more expensive but in off-grid situations really a must.

And don't forget the charging part, like a Victron Orion between the car's alternator and the RV battery, and also solar panels.
When demanding higher powers, the battery, and the inverter needs to be bigger, and also the charging part needs to fit here.
Charging with to small currents will take ages, and eventually drain your complete setup, so you need to think this over too.

 

[mikefitz]

If we assume the only significant 230v load is the microwave then a 2000 watt inverter is adequate. This is OK for a 12v systen and is a common setup in European motorhomes. In the confined space of a panel van using a 12v compressor fridge with forced air cooled heat exchanger is the most efficient.

12/24 Volt Fridges Archives - Penguin Refrigeration

Vitrifrigo Campervan and Motorhome 12/24v Airlock fridges. Small low profile Danfoss BD35 compressor fridge. Ideal for underseating, under counter fridge.

penguinfrigo.co.uk

Once you have ventilation roof lights on a euro panel van there is limited room for solar panels. With careful layout around 600 watts of solar can be fitted.
Where chargers and inverters are concerned the only models I recommend are from Victron or Votronics, both European based companies.

If you favor an inverter charger then at 12v Victron have the Mulitplus 12 2000 80, this auto switches between shore and battery.

For the solar charger a Victron 100/30 or 100/50 depending on the panel power fitted.

Alternator charging needs a B to B charger. The MB recommended extra load on the alternator is around 60 amps. Votronics offer a range of chargers, VCC 30,50,70,90. Apart from the 30 amp version the higher output models can be user programmable for lowed charge currents.

VOTRONIC - Charging Converters

Innovative Elektronik für den mobilen Einsatz

www.votronic.de

Victron offer the Orion tri smart 12 12 30, with a 30 amp output.

Its not clear what battery you will be using. With a 2000 watt inverter at full power that's around 150 amps from the battery. Using the recommendation that taking continuous power at 0.5C ( C=battery capacity) it suggests a lithium battery pack of around 300 Ah capacity.

Mike