12V or 24V for a 2000W inverter with induction cooktop

12kw_2021

New Member
I do not know how powerful of a cooker you require but your questions have made me wonder if induction cooking on my boat would be the way to go. When out at anchor I cook mostly on deck with grill but in marina can't use open flame device on deck.

I have found some low powered cookers (800 watt and down) but don't know how they would perform. As they are inexpensive I am thinking of buying one to try at home.
I have a 23 foot Class C rv with an 11 gallon propane tank mounted under the floor. That will run my propane/dc/ac fridge for a 3 month trip. I have a 3 burner propane cooktop inside that is very lightly used, most of my cooking is outside using small 1 lb propane bottles that I refill prior to each trip to avoid the extreme markups of these small propane bottles. I fill and pack 6-10 of them in a storage compartment on the outside of my rig, and those usually last the 3 month winter season in Florida. The adapter to refill the 1 lb bottles is small, and if you had a larger propane storage tank on your rig you could refill those for cooking while on the road.

Note that you must invert the larger tank and have the smaller tanks ice cold to properly fill the smaller tanks using liquid propane (inverted tank) from your fill tank. If the small tanks are not cold you can still fill and use them, but the fill may end up being 8 ounces instead of 16. Still a usable solution.

I also have a small table top induction cooktop that I use outdoors when connected to shore power and it draws 1800w and works very well. I also carry a small camping style white gas cook top that can be used when needed. (Rarely in my use case)

So the poster here could have all three options, (induction, propane, and white gas) and use each when desired. The weight and space requirements for all three options are small. Just my 2 cents. I also carry a small portable "propane grill" that uses the 1 lb bottles, and that is a fourth cooking appliance.

Best of luck in your journeys
 

Mcgivor

Solar Addict
Not all induction cooktops are created equal. European models have power factor correcting power supplies, U.S. models generally do not.

Since U.S. residential grid usage has no regulations on power factor, many manufacturers cut costs by just using simple rectifier-filter cap to convert incoming single phase AC to DC to run induction drive inverter circuitry. For residential usage, U.S. grid charges are based on true power so there is no incentive to have good power factor appliances.

Same goes for variable compressor speed inverter-refrig's. My expensive variable speed compressor Samsung 28 cu-ft has very crappy power factor of 0.6. The European Samsung model does have PF correction.

Running poor PF loads on inverters degrades inverter efficiency so consumes more battery power. The lower the PF of load, the higher the peak inverter current. Inverter losses are proportional to current through MOSFET switches and transformer.

Since U.S. market for mini-split inverter-air conditioners is small, and Europe/other countries that do use most of mini-splits built have PF regulations, most of the mini-splits even in U.S., do have PF correcting power supplies.

To correct the statement regarding poor power factor consuming more battery power.

Poor power factor will only have an effect on the generating source, the inverter in this case,, not the battery, a load of 1000W at a power factor of 0.5 will still consume 1000W from the battery this is refered to as real power.

The same 1000W PF 0.5 load would overwhelm a 1000W inverter because the apparent power caused by the poor power factor would be higher than the inverters capacity.

Edit: After reading the statement again, the reference is to inverter efficiency being degraded, there may be some minor loss in overall inverter efficiency, but the significant factor is the inverter being able to support the apparent power.
 
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filippomasoni

Solar Enthusiast
I have no experience with induction cookers but have read that many will not work with modified sine wave inverters.
So many things that have electronic controllers don’t care for mod sine inverters. My first foray with inverters burned a computer, monitor, and made a couple other things die 20 years ago.
I’ll only buy true sine now. Much lesssss$$ than new fridges and monitors…

Of course, I never even considered a modified sine wave inverter because of all the problems they can cause.
I was planning on getting a Giandel pure sine wave 2000W AC 240V, I know the 120V American version is 2200W, the 240 must output a bit less.
I know a Victron 3000VA is higher quality but I don't want to spend 1300 euro on that. I hope the Giandel is enough for my 1600W maximum draw.

I do not know how powerful of a cooker you require but your questions have made me wonder if induction cooking on my boat would be the way to go. When out at anchor I cook mostly on deck with grill but in marina can't use open flame device on deck.

I have found some low powered cookers (800 watt and down) but don't know how they would perform. As they are inexpensive I am thinking of buying one to try at home.
I know induction requires a lot of electricity, even if it's a bit more efficient than resistive heating. Most 2 zone cooktops here in Europe are around 2000W + 1500W at maximum power. There are a few models that have settings to limit the maximum draw (here in Italy most households have a 3Kw limit). The one I like is Elleci leaf 30, which has 3 limit settings: 1600W, 2000W and 3600W. I believe it will go to a max of 1600W and if you raise the power for the second zone it will lower the first. I've seen a video of an American model rated for max 1800W and it does exactly that.
I'm pretty sure 1600W is enough for cooking if you need the second zone to just heat or keep at temperature. For complex meals and recipes, that could be limiting, but I don't care about that.
800W sounds a bit low, it might take a long time to bring to temperature some meals. But I never used induction and I'm curious to try it out.
I'm sure if the electric system is done correctly induction is much safer than gas and flames, so it could be a good way for you to cook on your boat as well.

I would just like to find out about this power factor and how to check for a goo induction cooktop that doesn't have issues with inverters.
 

filippomasoni

Solar Enthusiast
To correct the statement regarding poor power factor consuming more battery power.

Poor power factor will only have an effect on the generating source, the inverter in this case,, not the battery, a load of 1000W at a power factor of 0.5 will still consume 1000W from the battery this is refered to as real power.

The same 1000W PF 0.5 load would overwhelm a 1000W inverter because the apparent power caused by the poor power factor would be higher than the inverters capacity.

Edit: After reading the statement again, the reference is to inverter efficiency being degraded, there may be some minor loss in overall inverter efficiency, but the significant factor is the inverter being able to support the apparent power.
Got it, thanks. So we should ask directly to the induction manufacturer about the power factor? And find one that's close to 1 as possible. I'll try asking that.
 

smoothJoey

Scary!
Of course, I never even considered a modified sine wave inverter because of all the problems they can cause.
I was planning on getting a Giandel pure sine wave 2000W AC 240V, I know the 120V American version is 2200W, the 240 must output a bit less.
I know a Victron 3000VA is higher quality but I don't want to spend 1300 euro on that. I hope the Giandel is enough for my 1600W maximum draw.


I know induction requires a lot of electricity, even if it's a bit more efficient than resistive heating. Most 2 zone cooktops here in Europe are around 2000W + 1500W at maximum power. There are a few models that have settings to limit the maximum draw (here in Italy most households have a 3Kw limit). The one I like is Elleci leaf 30, which has 3 limit settings: 1600W, 2000W and 3600W. I believe it will go to a max of 1600W and if you raise the power for the second zone it will lower the first. I've seen a video of an American model rated for max 1800W and it does exactly that.
I'm pretty sure 1600W is enough for cooking if you need the second zone to just heat or keep at temperature. For complex meals and recipes, that could be limiting, but I don't care about that.
800W sounds a bit low, it might take a long time to bring to temperature some meals. But I never used induction and I'm curious to try it out.
I'm sure if the electric system is done correctly induction is much safer than gas and flames, so it could be a good way for you to cook on your boat as well.

I would just like to find out about this power factor and how to check for a goo induction cooktop that doesn't have issues with inverters.
These claim to have display power factor
I've seen these or similar for different plug form factors and voltages.
 

smoothJoey

Scary!
One important detail that is not easily addressed with a Giandel inverter is low voltage cutoff.
It will be too low for lifepo4 and it won't be configurable.
If memory serves they also have a momentary power switch which means the usual solid state relay hack is not possible.
Having your inverter shut off before your bms trips is a very good idea for multiple reasons.
 

filippomasoni

Solar Enthusiast
I have a 23 foot Class C rv with an 11 gallon propane tank mounted under the floor. That will run my propane/dc/ac fridge for a 3 month trip. I have a 3 burner propane cooktop inside that is very lightly used, most of my cooking is outside using small 1 lb propane bottles that I refill prior to each trip to avoid the extreme markups of these small propane bottles. I fill and pack 6-10 of them in a storage compartment on the outside of my rig, and those usually last the 3 month winter season in Florida. The adapter to refill the 1 lb bottles is small, and if you had a larger propane storage tank on your rig you could refill those for cooking while on the road.

Note that you must invert the larger tank and have the smaller tanks ice cold to properly fill the smaller tanks using liquid propane (inverted tank) from your fill tank. If the small tanks are not cold you can still fill and use them, but the fill may end up being 8 ounces instead of 16. Still a usable solution.

I also have a small table top induction cooktop that I use outdoors when connected to shore power and it draws 1800w and works very well. I also carry a small camping style white gas cook top that can be used when needed. (Rarely in my use case)

So the poster here could have all three options, (induction, propane, and white gas) and use each when desired. The weight and space requirements for all three options are small. Just my 2 cents. I also carry a small portable "propane grill" that uses the 1 lb bottles, and that is a fourth cooking appliance.

Best of luck in your journeys
Thanks for explaining your use case, it's always valuable information. Although I think that's not applicable to my situation. I will build a truck camper on a European single cab pickup, which is much smaller than US ones. The flatbed (with cutouts for the back wheel wells) will be about 8ft and I'm trying to minimize the size and weight of everything to have a better offroad performance. So carrying 3 sources of cooking is not feasible. I'll have a small gas camping cooker (with small bottles) that I can use outside or in an emergency, but the induction will save a lot of space and weight, other than the hustle of finding refills. At tops, I could carry a 5-10L of gas, which is far from the 11 gallons you have.
 

filippomasoni

Solar Enthusiast
These claim to have display power factor
I've seen these or similar for different plug form factors and voltages.
I have one very similar to those, I'll try that.

One important detail that is not easily addressed with a Giandel inverter is low voltage cutoff.
It will be too low for lifepo4 and it won't be configurable.
If memory serves they also have a momentary power switch which means the usual solid state relay hack is not possible.
Having your inverter shut off before your bms trips is a very good idea for multiple reasons.
I didn't know that. Why is the Giandel recommended by Will on the website then?
 

Steve_S

Offgrid Cabineer, N.E. Ontario, Canada
I have one of these Potable Units from Salton, it is actually what I would call quite "Polite" and less stressing than my 1200W Panasonic Inverter Microwave, which pulls 75A from 24C Bank. Running 120VAC@60Hz.

 

filippomasoni

Solar Enthusiast
You can have a look at Candy CDI30 induction cooktop, i think it has a better price than Elleci leaf 30
Candy is known to be a very cheap and low quality brand and from looking at the website it doesn't mention any limiting function, so it will pull 3500W which is too much. The Elleci can be limited to 1600W. I'm sure if we are looking for an induction cooktop that has a good power factor we need to get a quality appliance. I'll try and ask for that
 

12VoltInstalls

Solar Addict
I would not care to speculate.
I will speculate :)
I think he recommended Giandel for the sake of being reasonably useable and likely to be dependable on the inexpensive end of things. Isn’t the cheapest one out there but it’s not expensive.

I didn’t buy giandel because of Will’s video. I needed (wanted?) 600-800W so I was looking at 1200-1500W inverters. Several vids in amazon reviews posted over two years were positive, and some youtube vids seemed promising. The couple of youtubes by folks that had equipment issues and failures that were handled by good customer service and warranty replacements convinced me that the company was a reasonably good value at the low price end of the range.
Mine’s been going 3+ years now, and it’s 24/7 since April or May. I always meant buy a spare but have not.

I did buy their little 300W true sine wave model and rigged it with a sae plug for the jeep so I could charge my cordless tool batteries anywhere I was, but actually only have used it for a pencil soldering iron which was wicked convenient
 

JMc

Solar Enthusiast
Can't find the price of that. I'm not sure if 700W is enough to cook, but considering house appliances are all more than twice as that it probably won't work. At least something exist and if the "vanlife" market expands maybe in the future we'll have more products.
Looks like it’s available only as 24 or 48V, so most mobile users would need a dc-dc converter. Might as well just get an AC induction plate and use an inverter to run it.
 

BobR

Solar Enthusiast
Can't find the price of that. I'm not sure if 700W is enough to cook, but considering house appliances are all more than twice as that it probably won't work. At least something exist and if the "vanlife" market expands maybe in the future we'll have more products.
found this:
 

filippomasoni

Solar Enthusiast
Looks like it’s available only as 24 or 48V, so most mobile users would need a dc-dc converter. Might as well just get an AC induction plate and use an inverter to run it.
It probably needs a high voltage internally to function so that makes sense. If there were more reviews online and maybe a more powerful version I'd probably go with that and a 24V system. A 2000W inverter is big and heavy.

I found many sold on alibaba for about 30-50$ but only large quantities:

I've seen that video before and nothing else. Until I see someone reputable try it out I can't plan my system around it. But it's a very promising thing.
 

MattiFin

Solar Addict
Can't find the price of that. I'm not sure if 700W is enough to cook, but considering house appliances are all more than twice as that it probably won't work. At least something exist and if the "vanlife" market expands maybe in the future we'll have more products.
700w could work for spartan 1-person cooking, ie mostly boiling water or pasta or something like that. and definetely not boiling the pasta in 5L pot. 😀
heating up the water would be slow compared to 2 or 3 times more powerfull model but once you get it up to temperature the rest of the process takes very little energy. Throw a thick towel over the pot and you can stew something for 2 hours with quite small energy use.

what car/van model you have planned to use in your build?
I have been looking at 4wd vans also and Ducato (dangel) 4x4 seem to have most space available.
What I don’t like about it is the ”aftermarket” Dangel 4wd drive as it is not very common and parts are somewhat rare.
 

BobR

Solar Enthusiast
700w could work for spartan 1-person cooking, ie mostly boiling water or pasta or something like that. and definetely not boiling the pasta in 5L pot. 😀
heating up the water would be slow compared to 2 or 3 times more powerfull model but once you get it up to temperature the rest of the process takes very little energy. Throw a thick towel over the pot and you can stew something for 2 hours with quite small energy use.

what car/van model you have planned to use in your build?
I have been looking at 4wd vans also and Ducato (dangel) 4x4 seem to have most space available.
What I don’t like about it is the ”aftermarket” Dangel 4wd drive as it is not very common and parts are somewhat rare.
Don't forget to use a pressure cooker to speed up cooking time.
 
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