diy solar

diy solar

1st post from a solar newby re solar generator

After a full charge followed by a few hours resting, check battery voltage. If a cell is bad it would be somewhat low. (Not sure exactly what voltage would indicate bad)

With a suitable load (e.g. inverter and space heater) you could check voltage initially over time, compare to Peukert plots, estimate Ah capacity.
Voltage vs. current draw and SoC are given for my batteries in this manual, in case you can't find similar for yours:

 
I located a couple of new eco worthy 195 watt panels locally at about half price of new. May pull the trigger on them today. Should double approx my charging capability without replacing charge controller just yet. Thoughts.
 
I located a couple of new eco worthy 195 watt panels locally at about half price of new. May pull the trigger on them today. Should double approx my charging capability without replacing charge controller just yet. Thoughts.

Is this your charge controller? 30A max


Is this your existing panel? 5.75A Isc x 2


What are the specs of the new 195W panels?

Seems like sum of Isc for the four panels is close to 30A. Probably OK if that value isn't exceeded, but any more would be expected to kill the charge controller. I suggest you aim some panels at morning sun, some at afternoon sun. The area presented to the sun at any given time will be reduced, so peak current is reduced. If there is a 90 degree angle between two 100W panels, for instance, about 5.75A x 2 x 0.71 = 8.13A
 
Is this your charge controller? 30A max


Is this your existing panel? 5.75A Isc x 2


What are the specs of the new 195W panels?

Seems like sum of Isc for the four panels is close to 30A. Probably OK if that value isn't exceeded, but any more would be expected to kill the charge controller. I suggest you aim some panels at morning sun, some at afternoon sun. The area presented to the sun at any given time will be reduced, so peak current is reduced. If there is a 90 degree angle between two 100W panels, for instance, about 5.75A x 2 x 0.71 = 8.13A
Yes on the charge controller and Renogy panels. Not planning to use my Renogy PANELS until I upgrade my controller. The 2 new panels should almost double my current output which will be a big help until I pickup a new controller.
Here are the specs of the new panels:
195W Monocrystalline Solar Panel
High Efficient Monocrystalline

Rated Power: 195W
Open Circuit Voltage (Voc): 21.6V
Short Circuit Current (Isc): 10.83A
Working Current (Iop): 9.02A
Output Tolerance: ±3%
Temperature Range: -40℃ to +80℃
Size: 58.3*26.3*1.4 inch (1480*668*35 mm)
Weight: 29.2 lbs (13.2kg
 
Yes on the charge controller and Renogy panels. Not planning to use my Renogy PANELS until I upgrade my controller. The 2 new panels should almost double my current output which will be a big help until I pickup a new controller.
Here are the specs of the new panels:
195W Monocrystalline Solar Panel
High Efficient Monocrystalline

Rated Power: 195W
Open Circuit Voltage (Voc): 21.6V
Short Circuit Current (Isc): 10.83A
Working Current (Iop): 9.02A
Output Tolerance: ±3%
Temperature Range: -40℃ to +80℃
Size: 58.3*26.3*1.4 inch (1480*668*35 mm)
Weight: 29.2 lbs (13.2kg
I purchased 2 of the panels above and plan to install with my SCC as I haven't purchase an upgrade as of yet. My current SCC is a PWM 30 amp. As I am understanding this, is what I need to be concerned with to not overload my SCC. The isc of my 2 100 watt panels Is 5.75 isc each so I need to upgrade my SCC before I connect these 2 panels?

Also, I plan to purchase Branch Connectors MFFFF + FMMMM to connect all 4 panels to my SCC 10AWG feed. Is this the correct?
 
I purchased 2 of the panels above and plan to install with my SCC as I haven't purchase an upgrade as of yet. My current SCC is a PWM 30 amp. As I am understanding this, is what I need to be concerned with to not overload my SCC. The isc of my 2 100 watt panels Is 5.75 isc each so I need to upgrade my SCC before I connect these 2 panels?

Also, I plan to purchase Branch Connectors MFFFF + FMMMM to connect all 4 panels to my SCC 10AWG feed. Is this the correct?
Isc of the four amps in panels is slightly over 30A, so could damage the charger.
But if you aim the two 100W panels differently, morning and afternoon sun, and do the same with the 195W panels, that should drop the peak current below 30A so they could be used.

Yes, the four branch connecters and 10 awg would do.
You're supposed to have fuse for each string (panel in this case), whatever is on the label.
 
Isc of the four amps in panels is slightly over 30A, so could damage the charger.
But if you aim the two 100W panels differently, morning and afternoon sun, and do the same with the 195W panels, that should drop the peak current below 30A so they could be used.

Yes, the four branch connecters and 10 awg would do.
You're supposed to have fuse for each string (panel in this case), whatever is on the label.
Interesting on the fuse requirement. The original generator setup didn't have a fuse that I'm aware of except between the batteries and inverter. Where should the fuse be located?
 
Interesting on the fuse requirement. The original generator setup didn't have a fuse that I'm aware of except between the batteries and inverter. Where should the fuse be located?

Typically on the positive wire of each parallel panel (or each parallel string of several panels in series for higher voltage systems.)
For instance, four fuses at the 4:1 "T" or "Y" connector in your case.

The theory is, PV panel wires and traces can handle a particular current, e.g. 15A for a panel designed to put out about 7A. No problem when it is working properly. If you had four panels wired in parallel and one panel developed a fault (short, such as all the bypass diodes fail shorted), then the other three panels would force 7A x 3 = 21A backwards through the bad panel, causing overheating.

At least in the U.S., our NEC specifies OCP of fuse/breaker if available current exceeds capability of wire. I think that's 1.56x available current - we assume 1.25x for extra illumination reflecting off nearby clouds and 1.25x margin. Two panels in parallel don't need the fuse, but 3 or more do.

A few systems require fuses at both positive and negative end; those are specified in inverter documentation for some grid-tie inverters because AC has a path to reach the panels. But for battery systems, just one end is needed.

In your case if you put some panels on the building and some on the wall, you might want three pairs of 2:1 connectors instead of one pair of 4:1, otherwise each panel would have to wire individually back to where you put the connector.

Is your charge controller separate from inverter? Needs to have fuses that would blow if there is a short in the inverter, in the charge controller, or in the wire leading to either. Both could share one fuse, but typically an inverter is wired for some 50 to 200A, and charge controller has smaller wire for 20 to 60A, so each gets its own fuse.

You have a 30A controller (should use at least 10 awg. Now 10 awg actually has ampacity of 40A but NEC specifies 30A fuse. If we plan to run 30A continuous though a wire, should have 1.25x larger or minimum 38A fuse so ought to have 8 awg wire per code. Charge controller isn't expected to deliver more than 30A.

If PV panels are expected to deliver 30A, we would want to size wire (and fuse if required) after the 4:1 leading to charge controller at 1.56x so 47A. That exceeds 10 awg, requires 8 awg. My idea of multiple orientation for PV panels reduces the current, but may not satisfy code if wire too small. Single fuse sized to wire would work, or wire large enough. But you probably can't find 8 awg 4:1 MC. Instead of MC fuses, I have a combiner box with screw terminal fuse holders, and 8 awg or 6 awg from there to my (grid tie PV) inverters.

I'm giving you a bunch of details we concern ourselves with for permitted, grid-tied, higher voltage systems. Although, 12V systems can still overheat a wire and start a fire. If you make a system with more panels in series and fewer in parallel with MPPT controller, that makes higher voltages and lower currents, eliminating need for fusing individual panels when configured 2s2p

You have a 1500W inverter (we don't worry about 3000W peak for fuse so long as not "fast blow). 12V battery, correct? 125A, so much heavier cable. Fuse 1.25x or about 175A, and cable large enough for that.
 
While trying to wrap my brain around the fuse requirements I discover that Renogy doesn't recommend mixing panels of different wattage. "There’s a chance that instead of increasing your system’s overall power, you could actually be doing the reverse. The system will step down the power to match your lowest efficiency panel, and in most cases, you’re just throwing away that extra power by doing combinations like this. Therefore, if you are planning to use dissimilar panels, try to pick ones with a similar amount of watts to increase your system’s overall power."

Doesn't sound absolute but likely?
 
While trying to wrap my brain around the fuse requirements I discover that Renogy doesn't recommend mixing panels of different wattage. "There’s a chance that instead of increasing your system’s overall power, you could actually be doing the reverse. The system will step down the power to match your lowest efficiency panel, and in most cases, you’re just throwing away that extra power by doing combinations like this. Therefore, if you are planning to use dissimilar panels, try to pick ones with a similar amount of watts to increase your system’s overall power."

Doesn't sound absolute but likely?

Only a problem if you put a "12V" panel in parallel with a "24V" panel, or connect one that produces 10A in series with one that produces 5A.

Original panels:

"Open Circuit Voltage (Voc) 22.5 V "
"Optimum Operating Voltage (Vmp) 18.9 V"
"Optimum Operating Current (Imp) 5.29 A"

New panels:
195W Monocrystalline Solar Panel High Efficient Monocrystalline

"Open Circuit Voltage (Voc): 21.6V"
<Vmp not quoted>
"Working Current (Iop): 9.02A"

Although you didn't list Vmp for the new panels, Voc is just 1V different from the old.

You could put all four panels in parallel, but Imp would be very close to 30A limit of your PWM controller and Isc would exceed.
However, if you oriented one of each at say 9:00 AM sun and one of each at 3:00 PM sun, the 90 degree angle between them would reduce peak current to 0.7x as much, so within 30A limit. More hours of production would be available, somewhat less total Wh because lower intensity of light when it has longer path through atmosphere.

If you use an MPPT controller that can take the voltage from two panels in series, Two 100W panels in series paralleled with two 195W panels in series would match in voltage (about 36Vmp) and current would add (about 14A Imp)
.
Usually, two panels in parallel (or two series strings of panels in parallel) doesn't require fuses. But here you'll be connecting 9A panel in parallel with 5A panel, so 9A is available to backfeed it. The 5A spec says, "Maximum Series Fuse Rating 15A". For PV panels, a multiple of 1.56x is used (1.25 x 1.25 = 1.56) to account for extra reflected illumination and safety factor. and 9A x 1.56 = 14A, so I think you're still OK without fuses. (For the case of 2s 100W panels connected in parallel with 2s 195W panels.)
 
To put it more simply than @Hedges:

Vmp-Voc range of panels in parallel should overlap significantly - panels will tend to operate somewhere in the middle.
Imp-Isc range of panels in series should be close - all panels in series will operate at the LOWEST current value.

Even following the above, a 5-10%-ish penalty will be paid due to all panels likely not working exactly at their optimal voltage/current.
 
Only a problem if you put a "12V" panel in parallel with a "24V" panel, or connect one that produces 10A in series with one that produces 5A.

Original panels:

"Open Circuit Voltage (Voc) 22.5 V "
"Optimum Operating Voltage (Vmp) 18.9 V"
"Optimum Operating Current (Imp) 5.29 A"

New panels:
195W Monocrystalline Solar Panel High Efficient Monocrystalline

"Open Circuit Voltage (Voc): 21.6V"
<Vmp not quoted>
"Working Current (Iop): 9.02A"

Although you didn't list Vmp for the new panels, Voc is just 1V different from the old.

You could put all four panels in parallel, but Imp would be very close to 30A limit of your PWM controller and Isc would exceed.
However, if you oriented one of each at say 9:00 AM sun and one of each at 3:00 PM sun, the 90 degree angle between them would reduce peak current to 0.7x as much, so within 30A limit. More hours of production would be available, somewhat less total Wh because lower intensity of light when it has longer path through atmosphere.

If you use an MPPT controller that can take the voltage from two panels in series, Two 100W panels in series paralleled with two 195W panels in series would match in voltage (about 36Vmp) and current would add (about 14A Imp)
.
Usually, two panels in parallel (or two series strings of panels in parallel) doesn't require fuses. But here you'll be connecting 9A panel in parallel with 5A panel, so 9A is available to backfeed it. The 5A spec says, "Maximum Series Fuse Rating 15A". For PV panels, a multiple of 1.56x is used (1.25 x 1.25 = 1.56) to account for extra reflected illumination and safety factor. and 9A x 1.56 = 14A, so I think you're still OK without fuses. (For the case of 2s 100W panels connected in parallel with 2s 195W panels.)
Thanks for clearing that up for me as I was beginning to think I shouldn't have purchased the new panels. Also, I follow you on the different orientation of the panels which shouldn't be a problem to do but if I upgrade my SCC I shouldn't have to worry about different orientations, Correct?
 
Thanks for clearing that up for me as I was beginning to think I shouldn't have purchased the new panels. Also, I follow you on the different orientation of the panels which shouldn't be a problem to do but if I upgrade my SCC I shouldn't have to worry about different orientations, Correct?

Correct, if your new SCC has output current rating greater than PVwatts/12V

Besides, with MPPT you generally don't have to worry. It should limit the current it draws to what it can handle. Just don't exceed Voc (even after adjusting for record cold temperatures according to PV data sheet), and don't exceed any maximum short circuit current rating.
We do routinely "overpanel", put in PV wattage 1.5x to 2x the SCC wattage (multiple orientations would further reduce the issue.)
 
Am I calculating this properly?

Renogy panels - 200/12v = 16.667
Eco-worthy - 390/12 = 32.5
32.5 + 16.667 = 49.167 operating current.

So I need at least 50 amp SCC?
 
18.0 Vmp, close enough to the 18.9V of 100W panels.

19.8% module efficiency, which is good (less area or a given amount of power)
 
I've concluded that I need 50 amp SCC and now I'm arguing with myself regarding the cost difference between PWM and MPPT. I've spent the morning watching Will's video on the differences and need assistance with my decision. Please share with me your thoughts on spending $70 for the following PWM SCC versus 2 to 3 times for MPPT SCC.

EPEVER Solar Charge Controller 60A 12V/24V Auto Work VS6024AU with Dual USB Ports Solar Panel Battery Regulator LCD Display for Solar System (60A)​

 
PWM is inherently more inefficient because it effectively shorts the panel to the battery in a controlled fashion. This means you'll never get 100W out of a 100W panel. There's an inherent 10-20% performance hit. MPPT's permitting higher voltage panels in series means you'll capture a little more charging early and late in the day.

As an example, that 195W Ecoworthy panel will be limited to no more than 14.6V * 11.89A = 174W, and that's only at peak battery voltage.

PWM is definitely much cheaper, but you're sacrificing both array flexibility (all panels must be in parallel) and 10-20% of your array power.
 
What is the safest and most accurate way to check the output of my new 195 watt panels without having them hooked to my pwm solar charge controller?
 
What is the safest and most accurate way to check the output of my new 195 watt panels without having them hooked to my pwm solar charge controller?

You can measure Voc and Isc (your results will vary depending on weather and season)
Nothing will be accurate unless you have a light meter (or a known light source designed to illuminate panel area.)

For Voc, just stick DMM probes into cables without touching your fingers to metal of the probes. Aim panel toward sun.

For Isc, want to avoid pulling an arc and burning contacts and probes. I have a suitable DC rated switch so I put MC4 and banana cables into its screw terminals. Connect panel, aim at sun, close switch and read DMM (my panel was 7A and DMM had 10A scale, 11A fuse.)

Without a switch, turn panel away from sun while connecting test leads to MC4 pigtails and pigtails to panel, then turn panel toward sun.

Your meter has to measure current as high as that 195W panel, of course. If a "24V" panel that's easy, but if a "12V" panel fewer meters can measure that.

If you have a shunt suitable for the current, connect that and measure voltage across it.


You could also measure one more point on the IV curve, by connecting panel to a lead-acid battery and using two meters to measure voltage and current.
 
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