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24v system in Host Cascade

Johneb

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Okay, So new to the site (been lurking) as well as build your own batteries. We have a 2013 Host Cascade truck camper. Presently we have two six volt batteries for 220 (110) amps. In the near future we are looking at building a 24volt system. We will be powering my wife’s bipap which uses 24v, a 12/24 volt compressor refrigerator, and possibly a 24 volt air conditioner. I plan on starting with 8 Eve 304 amp for the 24v power. Then however much solar as needed. Our present rv fridge does not work going down the road so everything in it warms up by the end of a long day traveling. I figure with the Norcold compressor refrigerator I can do direct wire so as to save conversion energy. My wife’s bipap will also be a direct wire to a cigarette lighter 12/24 v plug saving conversion energy. The air conditioning I am looking at is a Red Dot 24v ac. https://cabcomfortdirect.com/collections/red-dot-ac-units/products/red-dot-24-volt-rooftop-ac-unit-1 I was thinking this one. Again Direct wire to save energy. Does this sound reasonable or do I need to rethink this. Thanks for any input.
 
Normally, for an RV I recommend you stick with 12 volt because so much of what is already in the RV is 12 volt. However, it sounds like you're replacing some of those components with ones that run on 24 volt.

There will still be some 12 volt devices, so you'll need a 24-12 step down converter. Space within a slide-in camper is at a premium and you may have to be creative with how the space is used and were components are placed. Open roof space is equally scarce. Put as much PV on the roof as you can and if it isn't enough consider supplementing that with a set of ground deployed panels on their own solar charge controller.

A 12-24 volt DC-DC charger may be something to consider as a way to charge the battery bank while on the road from the truck.

Oh, and welcome to the forum!
 
Thank you HRTKD. It has been an interesting and informative time reading about diy. Still lots to learn. The camper is in getting a new slide topper. As soon as it is back I am going to take the present battery compartment apart and see if there is a way to make room for the batteries,and battery warmer. I am still trying to learn enough to decide which BMS is going to be best for this system.
 
My Overkill Solar BMS (rebranded JBD) is doing very well in my RV.

How low are the temperatures you plan to camp at?
 
We will camp down into the 20's. We have been caught by surprise a few times and been in the single digits
 
Okay, So new to the site (been lurking) as well as build your own batteries. We have a 2013 Host Cascade truck camper. Presently we have two six volt batteries for 220 (110) amps. In the near future we are looking at building a 24volt system. We will be powering my wife’s bipap which uses 24v, a 12/24 volt compressor refrigerator, and possibly a 24 volt air conditioner. I plan on starting with 8 Eve 304 amp for the 24v power. Then however much solar as needed. Our present rv fridge does not work going down the road so everything in it warms up by the end of a long day traveling. I figure with the Norcold compressor refrigerator I can do direct wire so as to save conversion energy. My wife’s bipap will also be a direct wire to a cigarette lighter 12/24 v plug saving conversion energy. The air conditioning I am looking at is a Red Dot 24v ac. https://cabcomfortdirect.com/collections/red-dot-ac-units/products/red-dot-24-volt-rooftop-ac-unit-1 I was thinking this one. Again Direct wire to save energy. Does this sound reasonable or do I need to rethink this. Thanks for any input.
Brings back memories of getting everything to fit. Here's my TC build. https://diysolarforum.com/threads/heres-my-truck-camper-setup.29488/

I just finished remodeling the shower. Shower pan.jpg

Now working on a mini split mount on the rear, I was able to locate all the girts when I was doing the shower. Once the mini split is installed later this year, I'll have room for 2 more 100w panels on the tilting mount for a total of 800w.
 
Yours was one of the threads I have read through. North Star is a nice camper. Unfortunately both my wife and I have fallen climbing onto the bed, hence the Host Cascade. I like your setup. I am hoping to get everything inside the camper.
 
Yours was one of the threads I have read through. North Star is a nice camper. Unfortunately both my wife and I have fallen climbing onto the bed, hence the Host Cascade. I like your setup. I am hoping to get everything inside the camper.
You most likely will have to go with separate components as the all in one units need some wall space to mount. Plus the fans run and I didn't want to hear them. :)

Victron might be a good choice for the components as you can mount SCC, inverter and AC charger in different areas.

I can always sleep on the couch if I can't make it into the bed. Our old Northstar 850SC pop up had east west sleeping, was easier to get in/out. North south not as nice getting in/out but handier for someone getting up in the middle of the night when nature calls.

Host Cascade 10'6" weighs in at a hefty 3498 base weight. Not my type of camper, I go out in the boonies. https://diysolarforum.com/threads/server-rack-batteries-in-an-rv.33249/post-410586
 
Our camper is over 5000#. Definitely would not think of trying to climb 20% grades. I'm actually trying to convince the wife into selling our present f350 dually and get at least s 450/4500.
 
Our camper is over 5000#. Definitely would not think of trying to climb 20% grades. I'm actually trying to convince the wife into selling our present f350 dually and get at least s 450/4500.
Definitely, the F350 couldn't possibly have the payload capacity.

Many that run off road like I do have been running F450/550 chassis with military tires super single. Must ride rough empty, but these are usually an overland type situation.

65 gallons of water alone is around 525 lbs alone, nevermind black and grey water tanks.
 
Strictly by the specifications, the F-350 DRW has more cargo capacity than the F-450. But the F-450 is a class 4 truck disguised as a class 3 truck. Bigger brakes, bigger axles and bigger springs than the F-350 DRW and the F-450 has a tighter turning radius. The F-450 will be my next truck, though I'm very pleased with my F-350 SRW.

I've used my three season RV travel trailer (toy hauler) to camp below 0° F. I put in a lot of work on the 120 gallon fresh water tank to make that possible. I do go through a good amount of propane too. My LiFePO4 batteries are inside the RV and I have warming pads on them. When I'm actively using the RV, the warming pads don't come on. The furnace keeps the LiFePO4 batteries warm enough. A inch or two of insulation really helps.

The Victron Multiplus 12/3000 that I just installed has a slight hum to it. Once the closet doors are closed I'm not sure I can hear it. I haven't pushed the inverter hard enough yet to cause the cooling fan to come on.
 
The Cascade has an enclosed heated basement. I was going to put the batteries there but I heard/read somewhere that these batteries aren't that happy with high temps. I don't think there is an ac duct there. If I can fit the batteries into the present battery compartment I can use the heat pad in the winter and the vented door in summer. That allows me to remove the present charger/ converter. With a little shuffling of wires components I may be able to put an all in one charger/inverter/ transfer switch in. When I get the camper back from the shop the first thing I plan on is to measure to see if this can be done. Otherwise separate components will be in order.
 
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The Cascade has an enclosed heated basement. I was going to put the batteries there but I heard/read somewhere that these batteries aren't that happy with high temps. I don't think there is an ac duct there. If I can fit the batteries into the present battery compartment I can use the heat pad in the winter and the vented door in summer. That allows me to remove the present charger/ converter. With a little shuffling of wires components I may be able to put an all in one charger/inverter/ transfer switch in. When I get the camper back from the shop the first thing I plan on is to measure to see if this can be done. Otherwise separate components will be in order.

That sounds like a good plan. I used a CAD tool to draw out my compartments and roof so I knew exactly how much space I had available. I then created components in the tool and test fit them into the drawing. The only downside to that was that the components fit great, the wire not so much. It's hard to know how much wire/cable can bend and good routing until you have the components installed (or if you have experience, which I didn't have).
 
This is all new to me as well. Which cad tool did you use? Oh how I know about things not fitting according to plans. Usually ends up with me saying "Really?" A lot and multiple trips to hardware/tool stores. I'm on hold for now but will post progress/questions (lots of them) when I start the project.
 
I used Sketchup.

I have an older offline version of it that I'm sticking with for now. The newer versions are subscription based which doesn't make sense for me since I use it so infrequently. The newer version has the ability to import/export in ways that my older version doesn't and that's bit me a couple times when I found components created by someone else that I would like to use in my diagram.

Last night I moved my solar charge controllers - for the second time. This time is was a move 1.5" to the left to make room for the cover on my negative common bus bar.

draw.io is another tool to consider, but it isn't CAD. Meaning that it doesn't easily draw for dimensions. I haven't seen an easy way to offset item A 4" from item B. That said, draw.io is a very good platform for making a system diagram that can be used for review. I put together a diagram in draw.io before I started buying devices and supplies. It helps quite a bit to see a visual representation of the system. My review thread is linked below. It was an eye opener for me and I greatly appreciated all the constructive criticism.

 
Normally, for an RV I recommend you stick with 12 volt because so much of what is already in the RV is 12 volt. However, it sounds like you're replacing some of those components with ones that run on 24 volt.

There will still be some 12 volt devices, so you'll need a 24-12 step down converter. Space within a slide-in camper is at a premium and you may have to be creative with how the space is used and were components are placed. Open roof space is equally scarce. Put as much PV on the roof as you can and if it isn't enough consider supplementing that with a set of ground deployed panels on their own solar charge controller.

A 12-24 volt DC-DC charger may be something to consider as a way to charge the battery bank while on the road from the truck.

Oh, and welcome to the forum!
Sort of an off topic question but it still applies considering what you just said.

I originally was looking at starting a 12v system. The problem I found was this: The MPP Solar 1000 watt all in one can only handle 500 watts of solar panels which would not be enough for my wants.

Which is forcing me into either a 24v or 48v set up both of which will be overkill for my current use (Truck Shell) but I want to be able to transplant it when covid goes away and Trailers are a dime a dozen. 24v seems to be the best fit since I'll be wanting appx 2-3 kw a day and that will increase when I purchase the trailer significantly. So, I want the ability to expand obviously.

Ideally, I'd like to go 12v but my current use won't make it compatible with my future use so I'm stuck making a decision I'm ill equipped to make with my lack of knowledge.

I get the impression that 48v would be the way to go but for what I want the goldilocks zone seems to be 24v but my confidence in this decision is poor.

Thanks in advance if you get the time to reply and apologies to all if I've derailed this. It wasn't my intent it was just too good of an opportunity not to ask.
 
4thHorseman In reading through this thread you can see my reasons for 24v. Have you already purchased the MPP solar charger? Have you purchased your batterie? If so what make, amp hour? How big of a system are you planning on after the purchase of the trailer? Are you planning on changing the refrigerator, a/c, and other things to 24v or keep it pretty much stock? Your decisions will determine your purchases.
 
4thHorseman In reading through this thread you can see my reasons for 24v. Have you already purchased the MPP solar charger? Have you purchased your batterie? If so what make, amp hour? How big of a system are you planning on after the purchase of the trailer? Are you planning on changing the refrigerator, a/c, and other things to 24v or keep it pretty much stock? Your decisions will determine your purchases.
I haven't purchased anything as of yet. That's why I can't give any type of figures except those based on current needs. I'll be expanding from wants to needs just having a trailer rather then sleeping in my truck when hunting ><.

The bigger question in my mind is how feasible it is to run Hybrid Solar inverter 2400w 24v 110v 80a MPPT solar charger 60a battery charger with only two panels. Obviously, going to neeed at least 300+ easily for each panel to fill a 24v 200ah bank which realistically isn't going to be filled @ 90% discharge. I normally love to tinker but I'm not drawn to do so when it comes to solar. The closest I'll come is a maybe on the batteries but chances are slim considering how cheap it is now to get them built. That said, ordering from China is still a possibility in my mind to do so.

All of that being said, I'm jealous that you have figured out more of how you wish to proceed than I have =)
 
I haven't purchased anything as of yet. That's why I can't give any type of figures except those based on current needs. I'll be expanding from wants to needs just having a trailer rather then sleeping in my truck when hunting ><.

The bigger question in my mind is how feasible it is to run Hybrid Solar inverter 2400w 24v 110v 80a MPPT solar charger 60a battery charger with only two panels.

That would depend on the size of the panels. :)

I have 6 100W on my TC roof, when the mini split is done it will be 8. Battery is 24V 280Ah. Out in the Dakotas we had no problem with power, I have a Dometic CFX95 replacing the back seat and ran a cord up from the camper when we are parked and run it thru the 24V to 12V buck. I could run it off 24V, but that is on the opposite side. I hard wired in a nice receptacle for the cord, another receptacle hardwired on the truck and it comes thru the truck rear cab. We did run the furnace each night for most of the trip. I turn the GW 3000SPF inverter off when we aren't using it, it charges the batteries with the inverter off. No TV to run, wife does blow dry her hair, and we never used the microwave that I can recall. Cooking is done on propane.

Where it will get you is on days with no sun and/or rain. Had 2 days with rain and no sun, battery got down to 75%. I have since added a 2400W 12VGiandel inverter in the back of the cab, seat is out for the Dometic CFX. I should take a photo of it. Ran 2/0 cable to it from my dual alternator setup of 355A. Used a new RV cord from the inverter to rear bumper where I installed a 30A RV receptacle. This allows me to "plug in" heading down the road and use the GW 120V charger. I've tested it this fall after I installed it, worked great. 60A I think I used for a charge rate. This also allows me to use the inverter in the truck for powering the camper if the GW was to fail.

I looked at DC to DC chargers, the biggest hurdle was 12V to 24V. You could find something like 30A in and 15A out or maybe 60A in and 30A out. I just figured why not just try this instead.

Obviously, going to neeed at least 300+ easily for each panel to fill a 24v 200ah bank which realistically isn't going to be filled @ 90% discharge. I normally love to tinker but I'm not drawn to do so when it comes to solar. The closest I'll come is a maybe on the batteries but chances are slim considering how cheap it is now to get them built. That said, ordering from China is still a possibility in my mind to do so.

All of that being said, I'm jealous that you have figured out more of how you wish to proceed than I have =)
It will depend on whether you're willing to charge off the truck. Heck the new Fords would allow you to plug the camper right into the truck inverter and charge your batteries that way, similar to my setup.

Location, shade, time of year all play into it. Whether you travel daily or sit parked for a week will make a difference too. I have half the array tilt so winter would not be such an issue. Too many people head south to AZ for the winter boondocking in the desert, then found the flat mounted PV couldn't put out enough watts to keep the batteries charged. Only so much real estate up top, make wise use of it.

As for panel selection, I used the Renogy 100W panels simply because 4 of them side by side fit just perfect. I have enough room for 4 more on an elevated mount plus a pair of 50W on each side on the front skylight. The 50W VOC is actually close to the 100W. Measure up your roof, lay it out on a piece of paper with all the obstacles and see what might fit. I've seen many add an elevated platform and store extra gear under the panels.
 
As for panel selection, I used the Renogy 100W panels simply because 4 of them side by side fit just perfect. I have enough room for 4 more on an elevated mount plus a pair of 50W on each side on the front skylight. The 50W VOC is actually close to the 100W. Measure up your roof, lay it out on a piece of paper with all the obstacles and see what might fit. I've seen many add an elevated platform and store extra gear under the panels.
That is one thing I've never heard said but it seems to be implied quite often. The larger the panels the less you want to use them on a mobile application. But I've never heard someone come out and say it like that. Right now, I only have a camper shell to put solar on thus two panels. I'd like to find a couple of used 400+ panels and throw them up there but as I stated before; I keep getting the impression that panels of this size can't take the wear and tear like 100 or 200 watt panels can. I need this question solved before I can realistically go forward. The idle consumption of the all in one is definitive factor in my mind so I want as much as I can get up there.

I believe I just typed a long winded question that could have been asked in a single sentence. Do you know if using 400+ panels for mobile application is allowed and if so are there specific types/brands of panels you should use?

Edit** I meant to address the DC to DC scenario you brought up and I'm pretty sure that's going to be a must for me where I live for winter. I would even go so far as to say I'll be investing in a generator most likely to boot. I'm in Idaho and we have lots of clouds in the winter and lots of trees all year round where I'm hunting. The summer though is clear skies and brutal 100+ days for weeks at a time so at the least will be running a strong fan.
 
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