280ah cells

RayG

New Member
I'm from the second group buy and just received my first of two boxes. The other box should arrive tomorrow. Thanks to being in Canada, the only shipping option was by air!

Voltage readings are identical across all 4 cells at 3.29V. This is my first time building my own battery bank, so I'm looking forward to this!

I've attached pictures of my first pack. They are all labelled with even more official labels than the first batch Michael received. Which might call into question the capacity testing again.

I'm quite impressed with the packaging. It looks secure and the boxes were not damaged. I'm not sure if the envelope of bus bars is for this box only or both boxes. Seeing as I ordered 8 cells, and the envelope says 8x 280 I'm guessing the second box won't have more. I haven't counted how many bus bars I got in total yet.

Thanks for coordinating all this Michael!
 

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Michael B Caro

Solar Addict
I could not tell less if they capacity test MY cells, and I wouldn't have a problem being told that they just could not take the time to do that without charging more. What I would mind is if they have not done it after they told me they would because I then told all of you that it would be done.
I have, a couple of times, indicated that I was kind of skeptical about them doing the capacity testing, but for the most part have been telling people it would be done, and when I say something will be done because that is what I was promised I expect it to be done.
My advertising business is successful for many reasons, one of the major ones being that when we say something we mean it and when we promise to do something we do it....even if it ends up costing us.
I have made small mistakes at different times with these cells and I have invariably, and I think some of the guys that have ordered will confirm this if they see this post, stood by what I said. If I give a quote I honor it...period.
In switching suppliers I had a situation in which someone committed to a purchase based on a quote from the original supplier. However, he didn't give me his shipping information until it was too late to get the order in before the Chinese Holiday and therefore his cells had to be ordered from the new supplier with the higher shipping costs. I did not tell him about that as soon as I should have and so I felt bad that I had not. So I told him I would honor that original quote, even though the cells would cost me more than what the quote was based on due to not getting his shipping information in time. That is the way I do business. But I will also say that he, like everyone that has ordered, was great about it and refused to let me take the hit. He paid the price of the new supplier and not that which I quoted him. A stand up guy to be sure.
I also had a couple of guys that failed to be sure to make their payments by Friends and Family and both or them did not hesitate to reimburse me for the 3% fee that was charged.
So, again, this has been an unbelievably good group to work with and everyone has expressed appreciation many times. Makes me very glad that I decided to do that as you all have proven you deserve good customer service and I am glad I could save you all some $$
 

Dzl

Unoffical Forum Librarian
Staff member
Moderator
The thing about the testing that I don't get is that everyone says you can't trust the testing.
You have to verify anyway.
Well I believe Xuba for instance provides a video showing IR and Voltage tests (note: this just means touching the terminals of each cell to record resting voltage and resting IR). So as long as you don't make assumptions beyond that, I think you can pretty safely trust that. I am skeptical by nature and more skeptical when it comes to this particular grey market, so I personally wouldn't trust more than can be verified (unless I really trusted the seller, which for me would mean buying from the manufacturer or a reputable distributor). Having shaky trust in the sellers is in my opinion just one of the so far unavoidable trade-offs of buying cells at this price point that should be factored into you decision.

I think the reason people desire testing before shipment even if they will still verify themselves is because people want cells to be somewhat matched, in order for this to be possible, the manufacturer or the seller has to test and bin. The further up the food chain this occurs, the better. Also it gives a datapoint to compare your own test results against, for instance allowing you to judge how stable the cell voltage was across the 5ish week timespan it took from when the seller tested the cell voltage to when you test the cell voltage. If any cell has dropped considerably you may have a bad cell, and I do believe there have been at least a couple reports of this on the forum.

If everyone reported that a seller did accurate testing then everyone would buy from that seller. I haven't seen any of that kind of reporting.
I think this is partly because for the most part neither us nor the resellers are very well equipped to actually do rigorous or precise testing at or anywhere near the level the manufacturers do.
 

Michael B Caro

Solar Addict
I'm from the second group buy and just received my first of two boxes. The other box should arrive tomorrow. Thanks to being in Canada, the only shipping option was by air!

Voltage readings are identical across all 4 cells at 3.29V. This is my first time building my own battery bank, so I'm looking forward to this!

I've attached pictures of my first pack. They are all labelled with even more official labels than the first batch Michael received. Which might call into question the capacity testing again.

I'm quite impressed with the packaging. It looks secure and the boxes were not damaged. I'm not sure if the envelope of bus bars is for this box only or both boxes. Seeing as I ordered 8 cells, and the envelope says 8x 280 I'm guessing the second box won't have more. I haven't counted how many bus bars I got in total yet.

Thanks for coordinating all this Michael!
They are supposed to come with double bus bars and screws and so I suspect that all of those go with those four cells.
I am really glad you are happy with them.
I would guess that the first batch they were not prepared for the label thing and by the second order they had come up with a better way of doing it.
Now it will be interesting to see how the second supplier handles the testing and labeling.
I am also very interested in the results of the testing of the Lishen cells that Craig is going to do for me. Since there is a chance that at some point the EVE cells will no longer be available to us (although that is not for sure) I wanted to get a good idea of the suitability of the Lishen cells before selling any of them. So I have ordered 4 Lishen cells to be shipped to Craig by air freight and he will test them and let us know what he finds.
Kind of exciting stuff really LOL
 

Gazoo

Dumb Dumb
I know what you are getting at and I will take a crack at it. Steve wrote a post about what is involved for capacity cell testing and matching. It's quite a lengthy process and I can't find the post at the moment. I would think EVE goes by their spec sheet but I don't know that for a fact.

The question I would pose and may be worth exploring is whether it would be preferable to receive 4 cells that test to 277Ah, or 3 x cells that test to 287Ah and one that tests to 280Ah. Put differently, what is more important, absolute capacity, or difference between individual cell capacities?

If I am paying for capacity tested matched cells, I would expect all cells to have the same capacity. Regarding EVE 280 cells, all cells must measure at least 280ah's or better and have equal capacity. I have no idea what the tolerances are. I believe this has to be done by the manufacturer.

While it's possible these cells were tested for capacity upstream or anywhere else, it's highly doubtful. I don't know if EVE tests each cell for capacity before they leave the factory except for special requirements like for EV's or something and in that case its most likely the cells are binned and matched.

No doubt the testing equipment required is very costly and training would be required as well. In fact my fear with the supplier testing the capacity is if they don't have the proper equipment and training then we could end up receiving expanded cells. I thought about it long and hard and I would rather do capacity testing on my end, unless the manufacturer does it. If it's the supplier testing, then I would need proof they have the proper equipment and training. Like I said it's quite an involved process.
 

Michael B Caro

Solar Addict
Well I believe Xuba for instance provides a video showing IR and Voltage tests (note: this just means touching the terminals of each cell to record resting voltage and resting IR). So as long as you don't make assumptions beyond that, I think you can pretty safely trust that. I am skeptical by nature and more skeptical when it comes to this particular grey market, so I personally wouldn't trust more than can be verified (unless I really trusted the seller, which for me would mean buying from the manufacturer or a reputable distributor). Having shaky trust in the sellers is in my opinion just one of the so far unavoidable trade-offs of buying cells at this price point that should be factored into you decision.

I think the reason people desire testing before shipment even if they will still verify themselves is because people want cells to be somewhat matched, in order for this to be possible, the manufacturer or the seller has to test and bin. The further up the food chain this occurs, the better. Also it gives a datapoint to compare your own test results against, for instance allowing you to judge how stable the cell voltage was across the 5ish week timespan it took from when the seller tested the cell voltage to when you test the cell voltage. If any cell has dropped considerably you may have a bad cell, and I do believe there have been at least a couple reports of this on the forum.


I think this is partly because for the most part neither us nor the resellers are very well equipped to actually do rigorous or precise testing at or anywhere near the level the manufacturers do.
Both of the suppliers I am using have supplied me video of a large number of cells all being charged at the same time....not sure they would have to do that unless they were doing capacity testing, and one of them misinterpreted something I asked about and responded that they have very specialized equipment for capacity testing and they do not sell that equipment.

As far as finding a trusted seller, two things come to mind.
First, that by doing these group buys and getting a LOT of cells from on supplier, or now two suppliers, it should give all of us some confidence that they can be trusted, at least to a large extent, as long as the vast majority of cells we get prove to be as represented.
Secondly, the numbers of cells we are buying as a group is large enough it would just not make any sense for them to screw it up. Losing a customer that may or may not have ordered again is one thing. But, losing a customer that is ordering hundreds of cells and has proven they will keep doing so is quite another.
 

Gazoo

Dumb Dumb
@RayG So what do you think of the buss bars. One of them looks a little rough? Or is that from the photo? Can you measure how thick they are?

The labeling on your cells looks really nice. Are all cells labeled with the same capacity? Thanks.
 

Dzl

Unoffical Forum Librarian
Staff member
Moderator
I could not tell less if they capacity test MY cells, and I wouldn't have a problem being told that they just could not take the time to do that without charging more. What I would mind is if they have not done it after they told me they would because I then told all of you that it would be done. I have, a couple of times, indicated that I was kind of skeptical about them doing the capacity testing, but for the most part have been telling people it would be done, and when I say something will be done because that is what I was promised I expect it to be done.
I think it is very reasonable for you to be upset with them in this case, or at least to deserve an explanation. FWIW a few of us--you included maybe--expressed skepticism semi-early on (in this thread I believe) about the seller actually performing true capacity tests, so group buyers did/do have the ability to form their own conclusions, and won't be totally blindsided if it turns out as it appears and no actual capacity tests were conducted.

That said I do think you and they have a legit reason to be upset on this point, and I agree with you if the seller says they will do something, they should do it--full stop. I do think this is one of those situations, where its important to really pin down what they mean and explicitly verify to the extent possible. One of the frustrating things about this marketplace is its really hard to convey to the sellers that you would much prefer they be honest even if they can't meet your every request than to be disingenuous or tell you what they think you want to hear.

Both of the suppliers I am using have supplied me video of a large number of cells all being charged at the same time....not sure they would have to do that unless they were doing capacity testing, and one of them misinterpreted something I asked about and responded that they have very specialized equipment for capacity testing and they do not sell that equipment.
This is very interesting, this does imply that they may do capacity testing on the front end (as they receive sells?). Possibly they only test to the degree of pass/fail (280+/279-) and do not capacity test for the purpose of matching?

Maybe you can get them to detail their overall QA and testing process.

As far as finding a trusted seller, two things come to mind.
First, that by doing these group buys and getting a LOT of cells from on supplier, or now two suppliers, it should give all of us some confidence that they can be trusted, at least to a large extent, as long as the vast majority of cells we get prove to be as represented
Secondly, the numbers of cells we are buying as a group is large enough it would just not make any sense for them to screw it up. Losing a customer that may or may not have ordered again is one thing. But, losing a customer that is ordering hundreds of cells and has proven they will keep doing so is quite another.
I agree. The large group buys also give more leverage and incentive for sellers to work hard to ensure a positive experience since they have a lot more to gain / lose than with an individual order. This is why I am excited by the group buy even though I'm not yet involved, I think it has the potential to lead to positive improvements in this niche market and a better and clearer relationship between us and the resellers.


In either case, you are doing a good job, and I know a lot of people are grateful for the service you are providing. There were bound to be at least some hiccups and miscommunications, hopefully it can be worked out and clarified. I would consider stressing to your sellers that it is not a dealbreaker if they can't capacity test individual cells, but it is a dealbreaker if they can't be honest/transparent, of course its up to your judgement how to proceed, but I think it makes sense to frame things where honesty is in their best interest.

I think with the possible exception of capacity testing, there is a lot to feel very positive about, having IR and Voltage labeled on each cell is very nice and they look well packaged and in good physical condition.
 
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RayG

New Member
@RayG So what do you think of the buss bars. One of them looks a little rough? Or is that from the photo? Can you measure how thick they are?

The labeling on your cells looks really nice. Are all cells labeled with the same capacity? Thanks.

I think it's just the photo making that one looked banged up! I have 16 bus bars in that bag. They seem to all be in the same shape. The heat shrink job is inconsistent in size on each bus bar. They measure 5/64 according to my calipers.

The labels are identical all on 4 cells.
 

Gazoo

Dumb Dumb
Both of the suppliers I am using have supplied me video of a large number of cells all being charged at the same time....not sure they would have to do that unless they were doing capacity testing, and one of them misinterpreted something I asked about and responded that they have very specialized equipment for capacity testing and they do not sell that equipment.
I find this very interesting as well. I will be interested to hear what the supplier has to say. I would also be interested in the approximate capacity of the cells when they were shipped.
Kind of exciting stuff really LOL
LOL. I think Craig is excited too. In fact I think we all are. And you are doing one hell of a good job managing the group buy... 👍
 

Gazoo

Dumb Dumb
I think it's just the photo making that one looked banged up! I have 16 bus bars in that bag. They seem to all be in the same shape. The heat shrink job is inconsistent in size on each bus bar. They measure 5/64 according to my calipers.

The labels are identical all on 4 cells.
Thanks. That's equal to 2mm thickness. :)
 

Gazoo

Dumb Dumb
Yes, that was from the envelope bag in the top of my box. There were 36 screws in the bag as well.
Be careful when you tighten the screws. Others have stripped the threads in the terminal holes which is all aluminum. I went with the grub screws and nuts route and will add a bit of blue Loctite. Didn't know if you knew this.
 

Jim 8112

New Member
I'm excited to join in on this. I'll be the only one of my buddies next year dry camping that has frozen ice cream, cold drinks, and every light in the RV on for 2 days straight without running a generator. Lol

I'll be following along to see how all your builds go!
 

Gazoo

Dumb Dumb
Quick update from me...have a busy weekend here:

I received my cells yesterday and they are sitting on the floor next to me. All cells are in good condition. None have any damage. Three of the cells have slight blemishes. I looked them over very carefully. The blemishes will not effect performance.

The cells were packaged very well. The cells are all marked with a magic marker mid edge. Probably checked them off that way as they were testing them.

The IR measured by the supplier of all the cells is .15. except one is .16.

The voltages measured by the supplier are all 3.29 except one is 3.30.

I measured them and they are all 3.296 except one is 3.295.

The voltages and IR were wrote by hand. The capacity was printed...all with 280 amps.

I am very happy and if they actually matched the IR that close then that's very good.

I haven't looked at the holographic labels yet. It was late and I was tired...lol.

All the buss bars are included and were in one of the boxes. I ordered 8 cells and received 16 buss bars and I am sure the buss bars will be ok for my use. I didn't count the screws....lol. As I posted previously I have grub screws and nuts and I will use a little blue Loctite.

So all and all so far I am a very happy camper. I will get to top balancing next week.
 

Gunnar

New Member
I can echo the comments above. Got my first batch of 8 cells last night. Super happy with them so far. Michael has been stellar to deal with. Got them in parallel and charging. Can't wait to get them installed in my travel trailer.
 
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