30 Percent Tax Credit ?

[SparkyJJO]

Then a good thing this bill reduces the deficit by spending less than it raises

By raising the taxes on households all the way down to the $20k income range according to non-partisan reviews. Way to go, create an inflation crisis, then kick everyone in the teeth while they are already struggling under rising costs, all while lying about everything.

If these goons in Washington say one thing, the opposite will be true.
"Won't raise taxes on anyone making under $400k" LIE
"This will combat inflation" LIE
"The people have won and special interest groups have lost" LIE
"I didn't have any discussions about Hunter's business dealings" BIG FAT LIE
Etc etc

This nonsense is really not going to help the general population, and they know it.

 

[Ampster]

.........- since when does an IRS agent need to be willing to use deadly force?

Over the years I had two types of agents show up at my business. The one's with guns were auditing a customer who had been paying for his lumber with cash. It turns out he was trying to launder money by doing a major remodel of a home and barn. I few months later I read in the paper he was arrested. I think they had been staking out the home for some time and identified all the material suppliers and probably trades people as well.

 

[dweick]

Any specifics on how it raises taxes down to the $20k income level? Or is that just something you heard?

I suspect you are getting confused, there are no changes to federal income tax laws that target anyone at the $20k income level but there are almost certainly SOME people who file returns that show $20k in income but are involved in various businesses that can be impacted by the tax bill but these aren't "poor" people, these are people who manage to report low incomes in a particular year.

And even there the impact is just so far down in the noise (an estimated 0.2% of returns of people reporting income of $10-20k would see tax increase of > $500. This is not Ma and Pa Kettle living on a social security check or Maude the cashier at Walmart. And it is offset by more people at those income levels paying less in federal income taxes, by a wide margin.
Some of the criticism even misses the point, asserting that we will all be worse off because it will lower GNP by 0.2% over the long term but lowering GNP growth is exactly what the Federal Reserve is trying to do to combat inflation except they are targeting a much greater decrease in growth.

As an example of some person with an income < $20k/yr who might see a tax increase under the new law would be the former inhabitant of the Oval Office who reported $0 in taxable income for many tax years.

But back to solar credits, glad I'll be getting a substantial tax cut from that provision in the bill.

 

[SparkyJJO]

No I didn't just hear it somewhere. It was some federal review group I forget the name of at the moment (way too many beurocracies). I think some (most?) Is not a direct tax, but will have the same effect and jack up everyone's costs more. I mean hello, if you crank the taxes up on a business, do you really think they'll swallow it? No, they'll treat it like any other cost increase and raise the cost of their goods, or they'll cut costs elsewhere and won't hire as many people, or even can projects, or whatever it takes to try to rebalance their books. Or they'll go offshore to someplace else, that will really help out people...

 

[Ozark Tinkering]

Whiskey Rebellion

The Whiskey Rebellion took place a long time before the IRS was borned. It happened shortly after my ancestors fought the British. That inspired us to form our own break-away state after leaving Pennsylvania, where North Carolina and Tennessee meet up. We called it the State of Franklin and whiskey was our currency. Hard to figure why we went bankrupt so quick? Best way known to man to store energy!
Yep good 'ol Hawkins Co.
I digress.

 

[Ozark Tinkering]

Government spending causes inflation.

Expensive oil and expensive houses and world famine cause inflation.

 

[Ozark Tinkering]

No I didn't just hear it somewhere. It was some federal review group I forget the name of at the moment (way too many beurocracies). I think some (most?) Is not a direct tax, but will have the same effect and jack up everyone's costs more. I mean hello, if you crank the taxes up on a business, do you really think they'll swallow it? No, they'll treat it like any other cost increase and raise the cost of their goods, or they'll cut costs elsewhere and won't hire as many people, or even can projects, or whatever it takes to try to rebalance their books. Or they'll go offshore to someplace else, that will really help out people...

So you have no specifics. Thought so.

 

[SparkyJJO]

Expensive oil and expensive houses and world famine cause inflation.

And you know who is partly to blame? Government. They ran the printing presses like bonkers, injected how many trillions of dollars into the economy via their COVID "rescue" plans (why were they sending people who still had jobs thousands of dollars anyway?).like yeah you're going to drive inflation way up by doing that.

So you have no specifics. Thought so.

Yeah because I don't have it memorized which agency it was that I read multiple reports on that somehow discredits it? Even the Biden gang publicly disagreed with on mainstream news. If I remember it or find it I'll post it.

*edit* I think it was the Congressional Budget Office.

 

[JoeHam]

Wow, this thread has taken something that likely benefits everyone from the US on this forum……

And turns it into a political sh!t show.

I’ll show myself out.

 

[Ozark Tinkering]

Inflation means I could get nearly a 10% raise this year on my S.S. Biggest raise since '81. Good thing I took all that covid money and put it on my roof for a 26% immediate return and charged my EV which nearly completely insulated me from the inflation that caused me to get a raise. The circle of money is a wonderful thing!

 

[SparkyJJO]

Your 10% raise in light of 8.5% inflation isn't as great anymore, but at least you got one above the inflation rate. Many people have not. I did not.

I used that covid cash to try to insulate myself from the rising costs I could see coming. Not 100% successful but hey...

 

[Risky Rob]

Your 10% raise in light of 8.5% inflation isn't as great anymore, but at least you got one above the inflation rate. Many people have not. I did not.

I used that covid cash to try to insulate myself from the rising costs I could see coming. Not 100% successful but hey...

The Social Security COLA in January was 5.9%. Inflation is much higher. I think that 10% figure is just speculation about 2023.

 

[Ampster]

No I didn't just hear it somewhere. It was some federal review group I forget the name of at the moment (way too many beurocracies). I

Without a link I would call it hearsay, which is the same as saying you heard it somewhere. I operate on facts that can be verified, not hearsay. FWIW my income is above $20k per year but below $150k filing joint return, head of household so facts on this issue matter to me.

 

[Ampster]

Yeah because I don't have it memorized which agency it was that I read multiple reports on that somehow discredits it?

YES.

 

[tigerwillow1]

Wow, this thread has taken something that likely benefits everyone from the US on this forum……

And turns it into a political sh!t show.

A lot of things turn into shit when the government gets involved. What would you expect when the bill does the opposite of its name?

 

[No One is Free]

Is the 30 percent retro active? So those who finished building this year can receive a credit.

Anyone thinking the tax credit is wrong, should think about not writing off interest paid on their home. My house is paid for, why am I helping others pay for theirs? Silly logic I guess. Forget politics, get involved with your local community and life will be better.

Thank you to all who share knowledge on this forum.

 

[Ampster]

A lot of things turn into shit when the government gets involved.

I am not a fan of big government either, but my view on why this thread turned to shit is because we are moving away from facts and getting into opinions, That gets us closer to issues of beliefs and that is where even reasonable minds will differ, If most of the discussions about solar issues could be just related to Ohms law and other laws of physics it would be easier

 

[Hedges]

Not against solar. Against government waste. You cannot spend your way out of inflation. And we don't need tens of thousands of new IRS agents shaking us down for every last penny we got. Especially not heavily armed ones - since when does an IRS agent need to be willing to use deadly force?

Since you've got solar, you could put an electric fence around your property.
To keep the IRS agents out.

How to Build a Deadly Electric Border Fence

Experts weigh in on Herman Cain's semi-serious plan to construct a fence that kills would-be illegal immigrants.

www.motherjones.com

Government spending causes inflation.

Which resets the national debt, so they can do it all over again.

The fact that levels of inflation not seen in decades

... is due to the fact that cost of living was redefined to change what would be considered inflation.

Shadowstats.com - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Opinions of scholars of economics are mixed on this question.

 

[Hedges]

Your 10% raise in light of 8.5% inflation isn't as great anymore, but at least you got one above the inflation rate.

Inflation is not 8.5%
Inflation was around 8% annually from 2009 to 2020. Anyone who bought anything (other than complete, pre-made products) noticed that. And the claimed inflation rate was 0% to 2% during that period.

It was my prediction in 2009 that the government would devalue the dollar in half. That was needed to bail out the banks (make mortgages on their books higher than deposits of customers. That is what happened.

Probably in the 15% and higher range today.

What Drives Rising Inflation? (Updated) | Econofact

Inflation was 6.8% in November 2021. Whether it is likely to continue increasing depends on different factors that contribute to a generalized rise in prices.

econofact.org

 

[chrisski]

Then a good thing this bill reduces the deficit by spending less than it raises

You can’t possibly believe that statement.