32A 110V DC Breakers off Amazon that pass 90A (smoke show)

[methods]

I have done a complete video teardown on these breakers in the past.
* They have both Thermal and Magnetic Trip
* They have ark arrestors for DC

Model Number:
TXC65Z-60
B32

Amazon Links:
Double Pole Purchase Link

Amazon.com

Single Pole Purchase Link

Amazon.com

The Magnetic trip is actually quite sensitive and triggers very easy on transients. The Thermal Breaker is NON OPERATIONAL and will pass 90ADC continuous.



I also have a bunch of the 1000V rated Genuine... (-63) and those actually work.
These in green are hazardous waste. If you have them in your system, I strongly urge you to perform an overcurrent test IMMEDIATELY. They will protect you from a short circuit and they will allow you to turn loads on and off... BUT THEY ARE NOT 32A BREAKERS. THEY ARE 32A PASSERS.

* You wont find them on MFG website
* You wont find a legit datasheet anywhere on the Webberz

Todays Vblog showing that I can run 90A continuous thru these breakers until my SB50's melt down. Total Hazmat.

Now moving on to 80% Load Testing

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I was running various 90C - 105C 10AWG on these breakers and yesterday I saw 45A pass... then today I ran 60A... then 90A... then S M O K E S H O W as expected. Super glad I performed the test and found the safety devices dont work. Especially while running lower temperature SB50's.

Good Luck in your Venture
Test but Verify

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[methods]

Yes I realize they are directional as well.
That is my Test Rig - it was set up to break DC Charge and they were "directionally correct" at time of failure. Thermal Breaking should happen in either direction with the different being the spark arresting is not as good in reverse (so you may get a long BZZZZZZ and fouled contacts).

These made NO ATTEMPT to break prolonged 60A and 90A discharge.

If you feel inclined to defend these breakers, then I ask that you perform a Video Test with instrumentation to prove your results. I think you will be highly disturbed if you actually perform an overcurrent test.

* YES they turn ON/OFF
* YES they trip on ***FAST*** transients
* NO they do not trip thermally on constant 60A or 90A DC

See Video if you doubt the facts

There are hundreds of thousands of these bumping around in VAN-LIFE wagons everywhere. No doubt mixed with counterfeit Anderson SB50's as well.

As for the fake Anderson
* They work - good value for the price
* The melting temp of the thermoplastic is lower than Genuine Anderson
* The Silver Oxide coating on the contacts is much thinner
* The Unit to Unit mechanics varies a lot (I have 4 different knock-off brands in validation)

Basically they work great for 30A fool-around on 10AWG but if you drive them hard the plastic that holds the contact to the spring will reflow and you will have loose connections (also shown on video). I performed Saltwater Testing at 24V and the coating on the contacts disappeared near instantly leaving raw copper clods.

... The original Magic of Anderson was the fact that they "cleaned the contacts" upon insertion. This depends on the Silver Oxide coating which is sacrificial. The primary failure mode of PP45 (in 15,30,45A) has always been cocked-off crimps (insufficient spring force) - same for SB50, 350, and up. A properly crimped and wired Anderson must "Wiggle" in the housing so that the two springs can work together to make a sufficient contact.

Anyway

You can wire a PP45 with 10AWG and run 45A continuous. The SB50 is M U C H .. L A R G E R ... but it still suffers the same melting temperature failure mode. Any Anderson-Type connector MUST be current limited. It will fail long before your cabling insulation will.

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[methods]

I have ordered another counterfeit DC breaker to replace them. They CLAIM bi-directional (cough) in the Amazon ad... but as you can guess it is just funny-language. They are no doubt bi-directional for breaking AC, but with DC... we will see.

You can tell when you open them up and look at the Spark Arrestor.

Anyhow
I will give these a go and have them terminate 58V in Charge and Discharge to see if we get any clatter. It is easy to tell when a DC breaker fails to quench the ark! These are rated to break 400V DC so I may be able to cheat 60V in there, backwards.

Amazon.com

I know... I know... buy the good stuff.
Sometimes I stumble onto really good stuff from the Chinese Market that is overlooked. 10X the price for American Re-Brand, pennies on the dolar from the overseas supply.

Everything gets Tested
* Thermal Overload
* Hard Short Circuit
* Breaking in forward and reverse direction
* Fastening
* DIN rail grab

-methods

 

[Mattb4]

I have some of the Chtaxi 1000vDC rated ones in use (blue lever). Never had one trip but than again I never run near or at rated current. Interesting results for the 12-110vDC ones.

 

[methods]

New Breaker actually has a MFG page?!?

DZ47X-1/2/3/4P微型断路器

They clearly state that it has no direction. We will see! 20X breaking in both directions. If they still work, Golden.

... As for the Blue 1000V version:
I actually tested those with the 125A DC Constant Current Supply, they blew within reason. I have a Sorensen DCS 125A 8V supply that we can evaluate trippage with. I dont understand how I did not catch the green ones.

Obviously I did not perform the test :-(

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[methods]

As for Validation of the Blue 1KV 63A doubles

* I have regularly broken my array at 350V 5KW while in MPPT

Only once did I see lightning bolts inside (lol). Since then I have opened while in the middle of MPPT at full 5KW and they have broken the circuit without solar arc.

I took those apart too... They have a much larger spark arrester inside. You can definitely see the difference between the 1000 volt and 100 volt DC rating.

I mostly use those just for opening the array to service the inverter... Not so much for being a circuit breaker.

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[methods]

Here is the Validation - 130A Test

 

[methods]

Here is a follow-up test After 5 minutes resting.

The breaker will hold over double it's rated current for minutes..... (Indefinitely?) Eventually it melts internally and let's go if it's wires. (O)(o)

* Notice how solid that 10 AWG 105C rated Marine Wire is tho ... Didn't even break a sweat !

So the Tinned 10AWG held the 90 amp load without even getting hot to the touch... While the Amazon DC breaker melted internally and spat out its contact.

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[methods]

I have some of the Chtaxi 1000vDC rated ones in use (blue lever). Never had one trip but than again I never run near or at rated current. Interesting results for the 12-110vDC ones.

Here is the same overcurrent test of your 63A 1000V Breaker. It should thermally limit to 63A and it will pass 130A.

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[methods]

105C Rated Insulation breach.
The Breaker itself was way over 70C - burn your fingers hot.

Of course a 63A breaker would have more like 6AWG or 4AWG, but the test stands. Most people use these 63A breakers on their 12AWG or 10AWG PV wires.



I have boxes and boxes of these things... Sad



Test performed with an 8V 125A DC Power Supply



Measurements confirmed between the Supply Display and Klein Tools CL800 DC Clamp Meter that was set to DC and zero'ed out.




Now... lets sit and wait and see who pops up with a nervous look on their face.

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[RCinFLA]

It is called a circuit BREAKER for a reason.

At about 125% of rated current through breaker it will typically take about 15-30 minutes for the thermal latch to trip.

typical curve (100-125A breaker)
This one shows 50 seconds to trip at 3x the breaker current rating.

High current flat portion of curve is where electro-magnetic latch for short circuit detection takes over for near instant trip at greater than 7-10x the breaker rating.

Shaded area between the two lines is trip uncertainty due to manufacturing make tolerances.

 

[methods]

Every different breaker in existence has a different graph. I am saying the graph for these wont be something you want to fool with.

125% x 32A = 40A (15-30min)
Guaranteed this breaker wont trip that, but I will repeat the test.

3 x 32A = 96A (50 seconds)
That is closer to what it actually does, except it MELTS INTERNALLY at that point... and spills its wires... but I will repeat the test.

I didn't think anyone would bite at arguing on behalf of those breakers. I have been running breakers all my life that will flip at 2-3-4-5 amps over rated current after 5min or so of soaking. I get that some have different curves (B, C...)

The biggest impact on those times will be:
* How much heat is soaking off to the copper cables as heat sinks
* What the ambient temperature of the breaker at start of test

... I thought we were DONE with this proof, but I will repeat the testing. My argument is that these breakers are absolute trash that wont protect your wiring or your equipment. Now lets focus on Tests to perform to prove that correct or incorrect.

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[methods]

TEST STARTED

* 42A Constant Current DC
* Fluke 87V monitoring Breaker body temperature in degrees C
* Clamp Meter and Supply display monitoring current
* Camera running at 10X time-lapse
* 8AWG wiring (heavy... so I will let it run for an hour)
* Not enclosed (So I will repeat if anyone argues)
* Brand new breaker out of the box, single pole (the doubles are just a pair of singles)

I will return with the test results.
One test is worth a thousand opinions

-methods

 

[methods]

It is called a circuit BREAKER for a reason.

At about 125% of rated current through breaker it will typically take about 15-30 minutes for the thermal latch to trip.

typical curve (100-125A breaker)
This one shows 50 seconds to trip at 3x the breaker current rating.

High current flat portion of curve is where electro-magnetic latch for short circuit detection takes over for near instant trip at greater than 7-10x the breaker rating.

Shaded area between the two lines is trip uncertainty due to manufacturing make tolerances.

View attachment 294212

Based on the standard you quoted this breaker has failed the long end of the testing.
I will now perform the more aggressive testing... where I propose it will MELT before it Trips.

I used 2 temperature probes, 2 current meters, and even added a clock to confirm it was filmed at 10X.

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[methods]

The unit will pass 96A for one minute and 30 seconds.
I guess that could be tolerated... but that is not the silent killer I am worried about.

There is a number in the middle there somewhere...
* 45A, 50A, 55A, 60A... Where it will run far longer than low temperature insulator 10AWG can stand off.

Now how about 60A?
How long do we want to run 60A continuous DC on 10AWG 60C wire? Lets perform that test next.

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[methods]

CASE CLOSED

* 30 minutes running at 60A with a case temperature reaching 110C - NO BREAK
* 10 more minutes running 65A with case temperature reaching 130C - NO BREAK
* FINALLY I got it to bump over at 42 minutes into the test at a case temperature of 142C and 70A !!!>?!

On a "32A Breaker"

Your 10AWG is peeling like a banana by now.....

-methods
(Aka Schindler Engineering)

 

[DPC]

It is called a circuit BREAKER for a reason.

At about 125% of rated current through breaker it will typically take about 15-30 minutes for the thermal latch to trip.

typical curve (100-125A breaker)
This one shows 50 seconds to trip at 3x the breaker current rating.

High current flat portion of curve is where electro-magnetic latch for short circuit detection takes over for near instant trip at greater than 7-10x the breaker rating.

Shaded area between the two lines is trip uncertainty due to manufacturing make tolerances.

View attachment 294212

Good graph.
More people should be educated on inverse tie delay curves.

 

[robbob2112]

You are clearly confusing the issue with facts....

I look forward to more on this...maybe other brands of the same size to compare

 

[RCinFLA]

Hydraulic-Magnetic breakers are more precise but can still have up to about 5-10 minutes at 125% rated current before it trips.

They do not use heating of bimetallic flexing strip for latching trip. They use only electro-magnetic coil to drive the latch trigger in two modes, one for regular, near rated, current trip which has the hydraulic time delay damper and a second method that bypasses the hydraulic delay based on strong magnetic pull for instant high current short circuit trip.

They are not affected by ambient temperature like cheaper bimetallic latching breakers are.

Midnight DC 175A and 250A MNEDC175-MNEDC250 re-branded breakers are hydraulic-magnetic Carling Technologies breakers.

 

[empowered]

So what are some decent breakers to use?

 

[Q-Dog]

Do folks run these in free air? I wonder how it will perform inside an enclosure?

 

[Quattrohead]

I came to the same conclusion a year or two back, those pretty green breakers are totally and utterly useless where as those blue 1000 volt breakers and the Dihool ones are good.

 

[Mattb4]

So these are really great switches? In PV systems you really are not worried all that much about over current damaging the wiring because the panels can only deliver their rated amount. Wiring and MC4's however can be damaged by heating caused by poor connections leading to increased point of resistance. However if used for the battery to load side of things "methods" test results would convince me to use different breakers.

I appreciate the test results.

 

[RCinFLA]

Do folks run these in free air? I wonder how it will perform inside an enclosure?

Some get fairly hot with upper end of their rated current drain. Breaker series resistance of 0.5 milliohms plus another 0.1 milliohm for two end connection lugs at 200 amps produces about 24 watts of heating that can make a breaker confined in a metal box get pretty hot.

Plastic enclosures probably should be avoided over concerns about structural integrity with heating and plastic fire rating.

For sinewave inverter DC which have large unipolarity 120 Hz sinewave ripple current, metal boxes have to avoid loose fitting door which can cause annoying buzzing chatter due to strong magnetic ripple current induced field.

 

[empowered]

So these are really great switches? In PV systems you really are not worried all that much about over current damaging the wiring because the panels can only deliver their rated amount. Wiring and MC4's however can be damaged by heating caused by poor connections leading to increased point of resistance. However if used for the battery to load side of things "methods" test results would convince me to use different breakers.

I appreciate the test results.

so these are good to use on PV side, not battery side? sweet, cuz i just bought a pair for my MPPT's.