35 Kw off grid stand alone system

[DOCRW]

I'm in the process of planning on building a home in Oregon, I don't mind being on the grid but the local power company wants $25,000 to run power 1800' which is pure price gouging. I currently have a 10kw system grid tie with no batteries, and have always liked the idea of having this kind of setup. If anyone out there is interested in this kind of project or is doing one, I'd like to talk with you. I'm open to any ideas you might have.
I have been in contact with solar companies and found a couple that are quite fair, but the biggest expense in the batteries,,, about $22000 of batteries are needed to run the home.
I'm pretty miserly with power but don't want to live with just not enough when needed. And yes I will have a genset backup

DOCRW

 

[Steve_S]

25K to run 1800' ! I though Hydro-One was INSANE when they quoted me $55K to run a 1km line, after I pulled myself off the floor laughing at them (litterally as I was in their offices at the time) I promptly went out and order my solar components and that was that. NO Power Co Hostage fees anymore ! it feels GOOD ! Feed-In tariffs are pretty much a farce unless your dong it on scale up here and ironically, that has driven MANY to switch over systems with Batteries due to the declining reliability of the power grid. ~Power Delivery was privatized during the big Conservative DeEvolution push (yeah, de-evolved alright, totally regressed to a previous state of disaster). Now it's "their problem", I'm out of it, YAY !

Thought / Question, have you considered going 100% Offgrid ?
Alternately, what about using the Grid as the backup ?
-- Generate, Store & use "your" power and if you fall short, have the grid recharge your batteries during Off-Peak Hours ?

I don't know what the rules/regs etc are in Oregon or how Solar R.E. Friendly they are. If you DIY and are NOT Grid Connected for Feed-in-Tariff would you still have to run through all of their hoops ? You can still be grid connected as far as using the grid as a Backup to run the AC->DC Charger as that is considered as a Charging Appliance, it cannot feed into the grid.

You mention $22,000 on batteries. What are you talking about there ? Tesla PowerWalls ? SimpliPhi or Relion Battery Storage Systems ? or what ?? This is a very wide area to blurt or a number. 22K as far as Tesla Powerwalls won't get you that far, the SimpliPhi solutions ae quite dear as well for what they are... BUT you get the corporate entity behind the product & warranties which all adds to the bottom line price too. MANY of us have Skinned the Battery Cat (and boy did it howl).

For Battery System, I would assume due to system sizing, you'd be looking at a 48VDC system.
1,000kWh @ 48VDC = 20,833 Ah.
1,000Ahs @ 48VDC = 48kWh.

1X 48V/280AH pack = 13.44 kWh { 16Pcs 3.2V 280Ah $1706 USD Delivered DPP } + BMS $150(+/-), + Box/Casing.
-> This is standard 16 cell series only battery pack.

 

[Prefersdirt]

I just listened to Engineer777 on Prepping Academy on Sep 19, 2020. Listen to the start of this. Plan now for going off-grid as you design your house. For 22K, I could take the entire farm off grid! Spend time here and read. Learn. Take notes. Learn. Plan.

Scott (Engineer777) said the best investment is slow startup appliances.

 

[TRW]

25K to run 1800' ! I though Hydro-One was INSANE when they quoted me $55K to run a 1km line, after I pulled myself off the floor laughing at them (litterally as I was in their offices at the time) I promptly went out and order my solar components and that was that. NO Power Co Hostage fees anymore ! it feels GOOD ! Feed-In tariffs are pretty much a farce unless your dong it on scale up here and ironically, that has driven MANY to switch over systems with Batteries due to the declining reliability of the power grid. ~Power Delivery was privatized during the big Conservative DeEvolution push (yeah, de-evolved alright, totally regressed to a previous state of disaster). Now it's "their problem", I'm out of it, YAY !

Thought / Question, have you considered going 100% Offgrid ?
Alternately, what about using the Grid as the backup ?
-- Generate, Store & use "your" power and if you fall short, have the grid recharge your batteries during Off-Peak Hours ?

I don't know what the rules/regs etc are in Oregon or how Solar R.E. Friendly they are. If you DIY and are NOT Grid Connected for Feed-in-Tariff would you still have to run through all of their hoops ? You can still be grid connected as far as using the grid as a Backup to run the AC->DC Charger as that is considered as a Charging Appliance, it cannot feed into the grid.

You mention $22,000 on batteries. What are you talking about there ? Tesla PowerWalls ? SimpliPhi or Relion Battery Storage Systems ? or what ?? This is a very wide area to blurt or a number. 22K as far as Tesla Powerwalls won't get you that far, the SimpliPhi solutions ae quite dear as well for what they are... BUT you get the corporate entity behind the product & warranties which all adds to the bottom line price too. MANY of us have Skinned the Battery Cat (and boy did it howl).

For Battery System, I would assume due to system sizing, you'd be looking at a 48VDC system.
1,000kWh @ 48VDC = 20,833 Ah.
1,000Ahs @ 48VDC = 48kWh.

1X 48V/280AH pack = 13.44 kWh { 16Pcs 3.2V 280Ah $1706 USD Delivered DPP } + BMS $150(+/-), + Box/Casing.
-> This is standard 16 cell series only battery pack.

I also am not very knowledgeable on this, but did you say that what the solar company wanted 22K for, your link can provide it for $1700?

 

[TRW]

I'm in the process of planning on building a home in Oregon, I don't mind being on the grid but the local power company wants $25,000 to run power 1800' which is pure price gouging. I currently have a 10kw system grid tie with no batteries, and have always liked the idea of having this kind of setup. If anyone out there is interested in this kind of project or is doing one, I'd like to talk with you. I'm open to any ideas you might have.
I have been in contact with solar companies and found a couple that are quite fair, but the biggest expense in the batteries,,, about $22000 of batteries are needed to run the home.
I'm pretty miserly with power but don't want to live with just not enough when needed. And yes I will have a genset backup

DOCRW

One more consideration is what they charge you for the basic rate each month, that adds up also. How much is that in 10 years?

 

[Hedges]

At today's prices, you can built a grid-tie PV system for $1/watt (panels, inverters, mounts, electrical parts), and amortized over 10 years will have cost $0.05/kWh (assuming 5 hours sun). In 10 or 20 years you may have to replace the inverters, costing $0.01/kWh amortized over another 10 years.

Batteries today will cost you $0.20 to $1.00/kWh. They are cost effective compared to extending power lines, but not compared to utility rates.
The battery inverter can interact with the grid-tie inverters (AC coupling) to make a very large system.

I think the trick is keeping battery bank as small as possible, and enabling loads to use power as it is generated from PV. If you have an automatic-start generator, you can use propane or diesel during extended periods of poor sun, avoiding need for larger batteries.

35 kW peak power system is easy to build with SMA. Two, 6kW Sunny Island inverters and four, 6kW Sunny Boy. It will hit a peak of 36 kW with full sun, and the two Sunny Island can surge to 22kW to start motors. You can also do 3-phase if you want, with 3 of them.

My system is around that size, for grid-backup. No generator, and an undersized battery just large enough to get through the night. With sunshine I run central A/C and anything else I want during power failures.

https://files.sma.de/downloads/SISYSGUIDE-KEN140421.pdf?_ga=2.208502545.263434434.1601944785-621369231.1589916091

 

[Steve_S]

I also am not very knowledgeable on this, but did you say that what the solar company wanted 22K for, your link can provide it for $1700?

The original quote from a Micro-FIT Dealer for panels, inverter & batteries was 22,000, and he wanted 10% over MSRP to supply the parts only.
I bought Canadian Solar panels, Midnite Classic SCC etc from a "Normal" Vendor for 11,000 ALL-IN

That $1700 Link is for LFP Battery cells.

 

[TRW]

That is a remarkable amount of good to the point info. That should be somewhere for the people like me who don't know much and have no idea of how all this works.

The original quote from a Micro-FIT Dealer for panels, inverter & batteries was 22,000, and he wanted 10% over MSRP to supply the parts only.
I bought Canadian Solar panels, Midnite Classic SCC etc from a "Normal" Vendor for 11,000 ALL-IN

That $1700 Link is for LFP Battery cells.

Thanks for the reply, and I did understand that thee $1700 was for the batteries, still one heck of a deal!

 

[Craig]

I'm in the process of planning on building a home in Oregon, I don't mind being on the grid but the local power company wants $25,000 to run power 1800' which is pure price gouging. I currently have a 10kw system grid tie with no batteries, and have always liked the idea of having this kind of setup. If anyone out there is interested in this kind of project or is doing one, I'd like to talk with you. I'm open to any ideas you might have.
I have been in contact with solar companies and found a couple that are quite fair, but the biggest expense in the batteries,,, about $22000 of batteries are needed to run the home.
I'm pretty miserly with power but don't want to live with just not enough when needed. And yes I will have a genset backup

DOCRW

For $22,000 I can give you 170Kw of power with EVE cells or even 50kw With LTO cells if the cold is an issue. How many KW were they offering for 22K?

 

[sunshine]

$25,000 for grid connection may be the best in the long term.
You could possibly subcontract out the 1800' trench and cable and the utility company only doing the end connections??
Any short term savings may be offset when those vast PV arrays out in the desert get into oversupply and grid companies begin to reflect the true price for renewables,

 

[DOCRW]

Thank you for all the input!! Attached are the PDFs of the quotes given, I think the lesser of the two would be sufficient for my needs. As far as being on the grid that is a NO GO because my reasons as stated are to not being held hostage to the huge $$ line run. I calculated $54,000 total for power over the next 20 years and going OFF grid makes sense to me. PLUS I like the idea of it anyways!!!
That being said, I don't want any of it to be a hassle either... A larger backup diesel generator would be in order for any other needs.

 

[TRW]

I really appreciate you info and your time. I will tell you that the best roof pitch should be 8/12 and you should consider a standing seam steel roof, for ease of installation and future roofing concerns. Good luck with this project, you have a busy plate!

 

[Steve_S]

Fortress eVault 18.5 Lithium Ferro Phosphate (LFP),

Leading Clean Energy Storage Provider | Lithium Battery Storage

Fortress Power is the leading manufacturer of high-quality and durable lithium Iron batteries providing clean energy storage solutions to its users.

www.fortresspower.com

Specifications:​

• Total Energy: 18.5 kWh
• Nominal Voltage: 51.2(48)V
• Voltage Range: 45-58.4 V
• Recommended Charge Current: 100 Amp
• Max. Charge Current(Continuous): 170 Amp
• Max. Discharge Current(Continuous): 180 Amp
• Recommend Storage temperature: 50 to 95 F
• Charge temperature: 32 to 113 F
• Capacity: 360 Amp-hour
• Dimension(H x W x D): 38.8" x 19.2" x 21.3"
• Weight: 476 lbs

2 pieces @ 11,799.00 total 23,598.00

That is stiff and that can be replicated for MUCH LESS
Using a LCD Display BMS (ANT BMS ?)
! Paralleled cells within ... OK IF they are truly matched & Batched.

48V Battery Pack = 16 LFP cells in Series.

-> Luyuan : Free Shipping to USA &16Pcs 3.2V 280Ah Total US $1,706.72

-> 300A 8S to 24S Lithium Battery Protection Board Smart Display Balance Ant BMS lifepo4 LTO li-ion APP Bluetooth USD $100

-> + Caseing / Box to hold cells, a Fuse/Breaker and Anderson connectors. to complete.

 

[Craig]

Wow how about this 48v 560Ah battery for $3500.00.
These guys are all about the money. You could definitely DIY a more powerful system for half the cost.

 

[Pyrofx]

1160 ahr for 3500? I'd be in

 

[DOCRW]

On another thread, this is what I will be living in while I build the off grid house, (delivered to the property a week ago). I want to outfit it with a solar system also since I will be in it for a long while. It takes a TON of research to learn all this stuff and my time like everyone's is limited. I'm wanting to do a 400 to 800 watt system using Aliexpress stuff, can someone point me in the right direction on this forum for such information? Thanks in advance.

 

[gnubie]

Using aliexpress stuff probably isn't the best start. You spin the wheel on quality and with covid19 delivery times are unknown. That's not to say using ali* is bad, it's just that it's probably a bit of an unnecessary risk. @upnorthandpersonal seems to have done well, at least he's still posting on the forum so things haven't burnt to the ground ... yet

You are in the USA I think, so you can get hold of good hand panels from santan. When it comes to the inverter / charger perhaps a small MPP from the USA seller would do the trick. You could do separate components, a SCC and an inverter of course. If you post your aims in this regards someone can point you in the right direction.

 

[upnorthandpersonal]

things haven't burnt to the ground ... yet

All good here

 

[Hedges]

800W AC?
800W PV for about 4 kWh/day?
How many Wh do you expect to draw overnight?
Is there a generator already in your 5th wheel?
How big is the compartment where you might install batteries and/or electronics?

 

[Steve_S]

I would not be surprised if you could buy good used panels or NOS (New Old Stock) panels in Oregon for a respectable price. The AIO's are the obvious simplest installation and they work well for most folks. Although, I personally would not consider any that did not have the ability to operate in parallel with another unit. Call it "future-proofing" if you will.

The amount of panel is relative to the size of battery and what it takes to charge the battery. As this is "temp" while your building the house, consider that making the installation such that you can disassemble and reuse it easily would be to your advantage. A fixed wooden ground mount would likely be the most cost effective and quickest to setup using 2x6 24oc and a couple of 6x6 PT rails on the ground with weights.

On the wattage output of the Inverter, again to may be better to go slightly bigger than you think at first. You'll start plugging in things like portable tool chargers and possibly running extension cords out to run some equipment & tools... BTDT ! I built my place without any grid power... again, if you plan on getting Solar Gear today, even for such a Temp Use of a year or so, consider it as potentially usable forward, don't buy things twice.