360V DC input split phase 120V/240V AC inverter

[yabert]

Hi all
I would like to connect my large battery pack (60 kWh (360V 167Ah) Chevy Bolt) to power my house in case of blackout, but it seem like inverters to do this are rare.
For me, it a non sense to build another 12V or 48V battery who will not be use 99% of time instead of using this large car battery actually available.

There seem to have tons of 12-24-48V off grid inverter available everywhere or grid tie inverter with 200V-500V DC input, but never off grid 200V-500V DC input inverter.

My plan, in case blackout is to turn off utility house input and connect my car to my house*.
So, is there pure sine off grid inverters with 300-400V DC input available in the 2000w-6000w range?
Please let me know.
Thanks
Yan

*for those who know the subject, there could have dangerous voltage manipulation involve in this and also car warranty legitimacy out of spec. It's not as simple than connect the J1772 to the car. I have a lot of experience with different voltage battery packs and I don't advice anybody to do this without a lot of knowledge/experience.
**sorry for the English, it's not my first language.

 

[snoobler]

Assuming you use 50Hz/230VAC power, this unit has a 450VDC input limit on the solar charge controller:

PIP 5048MGX European Model Voltage Only 230V NO 120V! – Watts247 Wholesale

watts247.com

Manual:

https://watts247.com/manuals/mpp/PIP-MG/PIP-MG%205KVA%20manual-20190717.pdf

You would still need at least a small 48V battery bank to power the inverter. It will not run exclusively off the solar input.

 

[yabert]

No, I'm in north America and I need 120V/240V AC 60Hz.
I saw many of those really affordable and interesting inverter. Sadly they are only useful everywhere on the planet... except in north America

 

[snoobler]

You can use an autotransformer to take the single phase 230VAC/60Hz and provide split phase 240. It mentions it in the description on the product page.

 

[yabert]

You can use an autotransformer to take the single phase 230VAC/60Hz and provide split phase 240. It mentions it in the description on the product page.

Yes, this could be a solution. But as fan of KISS (keep it simple stupid) this seem to mush components and wiring for nothing.
I could also use a regular 48v off grid inverter and use a DC-DC to step down 360vdc to 48vdc...., but this is also not simple.

Really, I can't believe there is no simple solution to obtain 120/240Vac from 360Vdc.

 

[snoobler]

EU spec Victron inverters are routinely installed in North America with auto transformers. It really is a simple solution, and there are off-the-shelf components available at reasonable prices. If you dig a little more, you may find an MPP Solar unit that might work alone or in pairs to provide split phase 240V, or you could decide that you don't need to run your entire house off the battery and feed only a single leg that powers critical items.

There are lots of folks wanting to provide off-grid or backup power via traditional inverters, so simple solutions exist and have existed for decades.

There are far fewer folks wanting to do what you desire. Expecting a simple solution may not be realistic.

 

[yabert]

There are lots of folks wanting to provide off-grid or backup power via traditional inverters, so simple solutions exist and have existed for decades.

There are far fewer folks wanting to do what you desire. Expecting a simple solution may not be realistic.

I understand there is fewer folks who want to connect an electric vehicle to their home today, but as there is thousand more EV on the road each day, this solution could became regular in just few years from now.

To add, this type of inverter could be really useful to have electricity everywhere a big battery on wheel (aka EV) can go. Simply bring the inverter in the car. Like in the middle of nowhere far from any grid (well, anywhere at more than 100-150 feets from a 120v or 240v outlet).

 

[snoobler]

It's easy to project your desires on to how you think things should be. Sounds like you've identified a market. Go for it.

 

[yabert]

Yes, if I had the electronic knowledge, you are sure that I will create this.
Sadly my knowledge is limited to electric and mechanical integration. Here is my Chevy Bolt: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9146376

Without the perfect inverter, it seem I will need to wait to find those 120/240V inverter with 360Vdc input at the scrap yard in few years inside a Ford E-transit or a Rivian truck or a Tesla truck or a GM truck...
Yes, they will be a normal stuff soon.

 

[Guda]

Not sure if this is a solution but it might be a place to look. In looking for mini splits I found one made for solar utility's that can run off of direct PV power at like 150vdc or something like that. Maybe on the utility end they might have something like that.

 

[yabert]

EU spec Victron inverters are routinely installed in North America with auto transformers. It really is a simple solution, and there are off-the-shelf components available at reasonable prices. If you dig a little more...

So I dig a bit more. What if... I connect the 360V battery to a widely available high voltage input inverter with 230V 50-60Hz output and use this ''auto transformer'' to have 120Vac: Step down transformer
Seem like a solution, right?

 

[snoobler]

Except you stated you needed 240VAC split phase.

That takes in 230AC single phase and outputs 110/120VAC single phase.

Autotransformer - Victron Energy

Use the Autotransformers for step up, step down and split phase output balancing purposes. Find a Victron Energy dealer near you.

www.victronenergy.com

 

[yabert]

Except you stated you needed 240VAC split phase.

Well, 240vac split phase is the ideal solution to connect the house to the car, but after more thinking, the only 240v stuff really useful in case of blackout is the well water pump. Heaters, oven, hot water and others 240V stuff are not that important.
As, in this case, I would have a 240v inverter and 120v from the step down transformer, I could manage to power the water pump.

After more dig, I found this 6 kw inverter with 180-500vdc input and 240vac OR 120vac output. But with 27A at output, I bet it's a 3kw inverter at 120v output.

 

[turbo6bar]

How do you intend to connect to the Bolt's battery? As far as I know, the CCS port does not allow for bidirectional power.

I know you're intent on using a 360V DC inverter, but you can also use power from the 12vdc side of the Bolt. The Bolt EV 12v converter can provide 1000 watts of power. Use that 1000 watts to run an inverter. Or, you could use the 1000 watts to feed a 24 volt battery pack and matching inverter.

 

[yabert]

How do you intend to connect to the Bolt's battery? As far as I know, the CCS port does not allow for bidirectional power.

I plan to connect the inverter directly at the junction box output. There is some outputs without HVIL.
People who don't know what is a High Voltage Interlock Loop, please don't kill your EV/ kill yourself by playing with a junction box.

I know you're intent on using a 360V DC inverter, but you can also use power from the 12vdc side of the Bolt. The Bolt EV 12v converter can provide 1000 watts of power. Use that 1000 watts to run an inverter. Or, you could use the 1000 watts to feed a 24 volt battery pack and matching inverter.

I used a 12Vdc 1000w inverter with great success since two years now. Super nice option for 120V devices, cooking and heating in the vehicle.
But I need more power for the house. The DC-DC in the Bolt is limited to 1600w and I don't what to over solicitate it.

 

[yabert]

I'm looking at the SolarEdge 3.8kW Solar Inverter - Single Phase - SE3800H-US.
It seem like a nice, compact unit with up to 480Vdc input at good price with long warranty, but what is meaning: ''Specifically designed to work with SolarEdge power optimizers''?
Some sellers seem to tell that this inverter will not work without power optimizers and so it will not work with my 360Vdc battery.
Can someone let me know more about this? Thanks.

 

[snoobler]

That's a grid tied inverter. When grid goes down, it shuts off. Period.

 

[400bird]

Maybe I am missing something, but those inverters you listed at all PV grid tied inverters.

You need an off-grid battery inverter.

I have never seen an inverter available in the voltage range without getting into the big expensive stuff.

 

[yabert]

That's a grid tied inverter. When grid goes down, it shuts off. Period.

Oh! Super useful to fully understand this... but fully stupid inverter too.
So if I understand correctly I have to look at ''hybrid'' inverter or, of course, off grid inverter with high voltage input (who don't seem to existe).

 

[snoobler]

Yes.