diy solar

diy solar

360V DC input split phase 120V/240V AC inverter

Samsonite801 said:
I also stumbled across these models as well which is 5.5kW, possibly based on similar design as the other one linked to above..

www.aliexpress.com

405.97US $ 25% OFF|EASUN POWER Soalr Inverter 5500W MPPT 100A 500VDC PV Input 220VAC 48VDC 5.5KW Pure Sine Wave hybrid inverter With WiFI|Inverters & Converters| - AliExpress

Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com
www.aliexpress.com www.aliexpress.com

www.aliexpress.com

405.0US $ 19% OFF|5.5kw Solar Inverter Ac 220v Dc 48vdc Mppt 100a 500vdc Pv Input 5500w Pure Sine Wave Hybrid Inverter With Wifi - Inverters & Converters - AliExpress

Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com
www.aliexpress.com www.aliexpress.com
Click to expand...

Reading the manuals found here for the EASun model, it indicates battery-less operation in the brochure, and cold-start inverter function but doesn't really talk about using battery-less mode in the manual or if there is special setting to enable or what...

http://www.easunpower.com/Products/Off-Grid/500Vdc_Solar_Inverter/231.html > click on Downloads tab to see manual and brochure download links.

I know plugoutpower.com guy seems to be using the similar inverter to the red colored one posted before, and those seem to operate battery-less or with battery, and cold-start function too, so it seems these are main needed features. Perhaps could try pinging EASun and asking them if they can provide any details about cold-starting the inverter on PV-only input only (with no battery, and no grid input AC power)...

Theoretically it should work, but again, is this a common way people use these things? Just keep in mind you are the beta tester here.

Actually, I just noticed now, the AliExpress auction information for the EASun seems to indicate it is perfectly fine to run PV input only and battery-less mode operation at same time (upper-left scenario):

1607622664983.png

They also look like they only support 230v single phase, no split phase, would have to add a separate center tap transformer to get 120v too...
 
Last edited:
Samsonite801 said:
Sigineer also has this one which has high PV max volts, battery-less operation, etc:
Click to expand...
Nice! I particularly like the feature CV & Float Charge voltage 48.0V~58.4V Settable. This could be really useful when I will decide to put solar panels and a 12S or 14S NMC battery in the house. I have a partial part of a 7.6 kWh ford fusion battery laying in the garage.

But, is there really good reasons to pay double the price for a Sigineer inverter from china instead of another inverter from china?
 
yabert said:
Nice! I particularly like the feature CV & Float Charge voltage 48.0V~58.4V Settable. This could be really useful when I will decide to put solar panels and a 12S or 14S NMC battery in the house. I have a partial part of a 7.6 kWh ford fusion battery laying in the garage.

But, is there really good reasons to pay double the price for a Sigineer inverter from china instead of another inverter from china?
Click to expand...

Not really sure, Sigineer is like better brand name nowadays, and sometimes other companies use their inverters and re-brand them, I know Growatt uses a few Sigineer inverters in their lineup.


Speaking of Growatt, I just found they have a line here which also supports high PV voltage and also split-phase 240v/120v output:

Growatt 4000-7600MTLP-US - Residential inverters - Growatt

Growatt 4000-7600MTLP-US
www.growatt-america.com www.growatt-america.com

It looks like it doesn't use local batteries, only a grid-tie inverter, but it looks from the manual that it will cold-start without grid power present. It does support split-phase 240v/120v... Also, PV min voltage 150v, max voltage is 600v with nominal MPPT tracker voltage of 360v...


1607634627256.png

Specs Sheet:

User Manual:


I'm not saying this will for sure work, but it looks like a promising candidate...

The price for a 5kW one seems decent enough:
www.ebay.com

NEW 10kW 10000w UL1741 Grid-Tie Growatt STRING INVERTER + WiFi + FREE SHIPPING | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for NEW 10kW 10000w UL1741 Grid-Tie Growatt STRING INVERTER + WiFi + FREE SHIPPING at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!
www.ebay.com
 
Samsonite801 said:
Speaking of Growatt, I just found they have a line here which also supports high PV voltage and also split-phase 240v/120v output:
Click to expand...
? do you find THE perfect unit? 360vdc input, split phase and don't cost an arm...

But, ummm, from spec sheet: ''6.2. Intended Use...Converts DC (Direct Current) power from PV panel to AC (Alternating Current) power. Because Inverter is grid-connected, it controls the current amplitude according to the PV module power supply. Inverter always tries to convert the maximum power from your PV module''
Also: ''8.2.5. Setting grid model choice...This function is disabled when the inverter work in the normal state, you must turn off the AC (disconnect) separate unit, and the inverter LCD will display an error ‘NO AC Connection’ , LED turns red ,then this model choice function is enable. On the set situation page →knock to ‘Set Grid type’ →double knock to enter ‘Grid Tx: xxxV’→knock to select the grid model .need to wait for 10S till the LCD background light gone out then the Inverter will automatically restart. Turn on the AC (disconnect) separate unit, inverter will operate''

What this mean?
 
Last edited:
yabert said:
? do you find THE perfect unit? 360vdc input, split phase and don't cost an arm...

But, ummm, from spec sheet: ''6.2. Intended Use...Converts DC (Direct Current) power from PV panel to AC (Alternating Current) power. Because Inverter is grid-connected, it controls the current amplitude according to the PV module power supply. Inverter always tries to convert the maximum power from your PV module''
Also: ''8.2.5. Setting grid model choice...This function is disabled when the inverter work in the normal state, you must turn off the AC (disconnect) separate unit, and the inverter LCD will display an error ‘NO AC Connection’ , LED turns red ,then this model choice function is enable. On the set situation page →knock to ‘Set Grid type’ →double knock to enter ‘Grid Tx: xxxV’→knock to select the grid model .need to wait for 10S till the LCD background light gone out then the Inverter will automatically restart. Turn on the AC (disconnect) separate unit, inverter will operate''

What this mean?
Click to expand...

Yeah, I had read that exact same paragraph too when I was looking it over earlier, and had wondered the same thing, like what are the possible menu options on that screen for 'Setting grid model choice'... I wonder if it may have some PV inverter only mode it could be set to for island-only use (so it doesn't throw some warning about no grid AC power, or something.

I wonder if we could ping a Growatt rep and ask them what is the behavior of this setting (what options there are), and also see if they had any ideas about how the inverter will operate if it doesn't have a grid connection. It seemed to me like the inverter will run fine on PV >150v, but may just throw a warning about no grid power connection or something. I would think the inverter AC is a sync master until it finds a grid power, then syncs frequency to grid only if it exists, but if it doesn't find the input signal, it just runs on its own clock...

Unless we could find another forum member who has some experience using this model... But I've had good luck on several occasions by pinging tech people at some of these companies, since they want your business they usually really try to help you find your answer. We should make sure we know how it behaves first, unless someone wanted to be a guinea pig and go buy one to try it out (maybe has a return policy hehe?).
 
I could be mistaken about your needs but if you're just looking for a battery-less PV inverter, the Delta H6 is an option.

www.ebay.com

Grid-Tied Inverter Delta H6 6000W NEW Battery-less Backup UL1741 Rule 21 2MPPT | eBay

This inverter was originally made for TESLA POWERWALLS! + 6000W Max AC output DO NOT MAX THE INVERTER OUT OVER 6KW, IT DRASTICALLY SHORTENS THE LIFESPAN OF THE INVERTER. We've recently found that this inverter can support up to 6kW of power when used off-grid with no battery bank attached.
www.ebay.com
 
the_colorist said:
I could be mistaken about your needs but if you're just looking for a battery-less PV inverter, the Delta H6 is an option.

www.ebay.com

Grid-Tied Inverter Delta H6 6000W NEW Battery-less Backup UL1741 Rule 21 2MPPT | eBay

This inverter was originally made for TESLA POWERWALLS! + 6000W Max AC output DO NOT MAX THE INVERTER OUT OVER 6KW, IT DRASTICALLY SHORTENS THE LIFESPAN OF THE INVERTER. We've recently found that this inverter can support up to 6kW of power when used off-grid with no battery bank attached.
www.ebay.com
Click to expand...

Well battery-less is one requirement, the other thing we'd have to confirm is if it would support cold-starting inverter without grid-connection available. I'd have to so see if I can find the manual and see if they specify. From what I understand, most grid-tie inverters DO NOT allow inverter to start unless AC grid power is detected. We couldn't use those types for this potential application. Other than that it seems like a possibility.
 
Samsonite801 said:
Well battery-less is one requirement, the other thing we'd have to confirm is if it would support cold-starting inverter without grid-connection available. I'd have to so see if I can find the manual and see if they specify. From what I understand, most grid-tie inverters DO NOT allow inverter to start unless AC grid power is detected. We couldn't use those types for this potential application. Other than that it seems like a possibility.
Click to expand...
Seller says it does:

"We've recently found that this inverter can support up to 6kW of power when used off-grid with no battery bank attached. This means power during daylight hours when the grid is shut down!! What an amazing opportunity to have power when the grid goes down!"

(That is, unless it only keeps producing AC after power failure occurs, doesn't wake up again after sleeping for one night, i.e. does not cold start.)

There are grid tie inverters that do this. SMA offers 2000W 120 VAC during grid failures. This one should too.

Without that feature, of course no grid-tie inverter produces power without AC present to sync to.
 
Hedges said:
Seller says it does:

"We've recently found that this inverter can support up to 6kW of power when used off-grid with no battery bank attached. This means power during daylight hours when the grid is shut down!! What an amazing opportunity to have power when the grid goes down!"

(That is, unless it only keeps producing AC after power failure occurs, doesn't wake up again after sleeping for one night, i.e. does not cold start.)

There are grid tie inverters that do this. SMA offers 2000W 120 VAC during grid failures. This one should too.

Without that feature, of course no grid-tie inverter produces power without AC present to sync to.
Click to expand...

I'll be golly gosh darned, yes sir it does. I didn't actually read about it on the last post because I was heading out the door and didn't have any time to research the details of it further.

I just pinged the seller on the Contact Seller link to have him clarify if it could be cold-started and run normally in this topology without throwing any alerts or alarms just to have him clarify. Just in case it required it to be started normally with AC present in order to start, and if grid power is lost it could keep running, or... if it can actually be cold-started without AC connection ever present, and be considered a 'normal mode of operation' to run like this...

Does look like his comment supports exactly that though:
"We've recently found that this inverter can support up to 6kW of power when used off-grid with no battery bank attached. This means power during daylight hours when the grid is shut down!! What an amazing opportunity to have power when the grid goes down!"

Also, look at the specs:

SPECS:

+ 6000W Max AC output** DO NOT MAX THE INVERTER OUT OVER 6KW, IT DRASTICALLY SHORTENS THE LIFESPAN OF THE INVERTER.
+ 97% Efficiency
+ 7000W Max Battery Backup output (240vac)
+ 400V-550V Lithium Battery Compatible (Tesla PowerWall 2)
+ Huge MPPT Operating Window (85-570V)
+ 2 Independent MPPT inputs

-Rule 21 Compliant
-UL1741SA Compliant
-HECO (Rule 14H) Compliant
-IEEE 1547 Compliant
-Rapid Shutdown Complaint (when Used with a rapid shutdown box) We have this item for sale on our ebay page.



I wonder what this means? + 400v-550v Lithium Battery Compatible (Tesla PowerWall 2)

With such a high battery bank voltage, it looks like the original poster might be able to use that connection and not even try to use the PV input for his Bolt battery. Then the connection could be bi-directional if that is the case... But I wonder why they have a minimum voltage showing 400v, I wonder if lower voltages are supported. I just downloaded the manual, I'll go read more about it when I get a few...
 
Last edited:
It sounds like the only battery it supports is a Tesla PowerWall battery, so 400v-550v range is all you get on the battery connection voltage, so the Bolt would have to use the PV DC input (85v-550v). If you ever wanted a separate battery at the residence you could always get a PowerWall for it later.

According to this thread:
diysolarforum.com

Delta H6 6000W Grid-Tied Inverter NEW Battery-less Backup UL1741 Rule 21 2MPPT

anyone using this one? i am planning put this one with 12 sunpower 230W panels and connect back to the grid.
diysolarforum.com diysolarforum.com

...It looks like it will throw a warning light on the unit if there is no PowerWall battery connected, but sounds harmless, in the next post the support guy confirms it will throw a warning without a PowerWall connected.

But if it cold-starts off-grid, then the inverter should still work for Yabert's Bolt battery, using the PV input (theoretically)...

I'll wait and see what the eBay seller says if he responds back to me...


1607840701828.png
 
So if the Delta H6 seems appealing to anyone (using the MPPT input on HV car battery), you may want to read this thread:

Will SolarCity H6 work in a rogue off-grid setup?

I've gone rogue off grid. 7 kilowatts of panels and way too much lithium batteries. I noticed some Tesla related inverters like the SolarCity h6 hybrid inverter that are enticingly cheap like $700. I like the high-voltage aspect and could arrange my batteries to be the correct voltage and I'm...
teslamotorsclub.com teslamotorsclub.com

Seems some people have had a few struggles with a sensitive AFI arc-fault detection circuit. Not saying this would be problematic but it could.

Also, here's a useful video I watched on the indoor install on one of these, and they go over some technical details of the Delta H6:
 
Last edited:
yabert said:
Nice! I particularly like the feature CV & Float Charge voltage 48.0V~58.4V Settable. This could be really useful when I will decide to put solar panels and a 12S or 14S NMC battery in the house. I have a partial part of a 7.6 kWh ford fusion battery laying in the garage.
Click to expand...

I have 5 of the Energi batteries you reference (420 cells). Make sure that you test the cells before use. Mine are all from relatively low miles wrecks that test nearly to rated capacity, but higher mileage plug-ins tend to completely deplete and charge their batteries on a daily basis thus cycle-hammering them mercilessly. It's not uncommon to see one with the original 20 EV miles down into the single digits.
 
snoobler said:
Mine are all from relatively low miles wrecks that test nearly to rated capacity
Click to expand...
Same for mine. Test at 24Ah.
All come from the same car and they probably end as a 3.8 kWh solar battery. 7S or 14S, I'm not sure.
The others cells are actually used in the mower ?

Do you have pictures of the cells assembly?
 
yabert said:
Same for mine. Test at 24Ah.
All come from the same car and they probably end as a 3.8 kWh solar battery. 7S or 14S, I'm not sure.
The others cells are actually used in the mower ?

Do you have pictures of the cells assembly?
Click to expand...

Must be one helluva mower... :)

Nothing you haven't seen already:

Old picture (demonstrating my aggressive, "make it work fast, don't care about safety or appearances" approach):

1608065421334.png

Top row of 4 was configured as 12P7S 24V. NO BMS, but had 4A active balancers from ECPC. All cells were tested to be essentially the exact same capacity and IR. Usage was gentle and with great care.

Bottom 4 rows are all just as-removed.

Here's a zoom in after I put insulation around the whole stack. You can see the balancers and my high tech, sloppy nickel plated Prius bus bars joining the cells.

1608065988416.png



Some packs broken down (was in process when taken, all were eventually completed):

1608065531613.png

I'm now in the process of reassembling them as 21P 3.2V modules with all 5 packs intermixed to address the slight differences in capacity. I'll do crossovers every 26 cells as needed. 7 of 20 complete. It takes me almost exactly an hour to reassemble one 21 cell module. Compressing them with the spacers is pretty tedious, but I have it down pretty good.
 
This can be a pain on solar side unless you have zero shading through the day. "Max MPPT Imbalance 70% / 30%"
 
Picasso said:
This can be a pain on solar side unless you have zero shading through the day. "Max MPPT Imbalance 70% / 30%"
Click to expand...

Yeah and the other problem with that inverter is, it had relied on setting it up with SolarCity's phone app / cloud service, so when it went down (app and cloud service was deprecated), customers were told they had to connect the inverter through the Tesla app, but then you have to call Tesla to have them add it (not able to add it without Tesla doing something to authorize it on server side), but then Tesla says that since their salesmen didn't install the inverter, they can't add it to the account as a managed device.

And there are certain things you can only set up in the app it sounds like, like for example if you want to disable the AFCI function (arc-fault detection) on the inverter, and who knows whatever else where you require the app for to change.

For me it would be a hard sell, since there is no functional app for it...
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

D
Output 240v from split phase inverter
Replies
11
Views
496
Vigo
V
S
Wiring Review - (Common Neutral) - Dual inverter with Grid (Split-Phase 120V/240V)
Replies
4
Views
275
Adam De Lay
Adam De Lay
A
AMPINVT 6000w 48v SPLIT PHASE INVERTER
Replies
5
Views
311
Aldricoak
A
S
Growatt SPF 3000TL LVM-48P Split Phase Problems
Replies
1
Views
168
steviep19
S
natable
3 Phase Microgrid DC Coupled to Grid-Tied Split Phase?
Replies
7
Views
268
Hedges
Hedges
Back
Top