400sq ft cabin with 110 wiring. Novice and in need of help.

[happycalhoun]

Hey guys, new to tiny home living and very new to solar power. I just built a 400 sq ft barn on 9 acres here in New Mexico. While im supper excited to get to enjoy this property I have some novice questions. I will only be using this cabin on the weekends and up to 3 days at a time. My problem right now is I want to wire the cabin for 110AC for future use of grid power, but being that it may take a few years to come across that kind of money I need to invest in solar to power this place in the mean time. My needs are very little... I think. I want to run 3-4 LED shop lights overhead maybe a garage door opener, and have a couple of outlets for a TV, coffe pot, and use of a saw and or small air compressor. What size system would you recommend and can anyone give me a dumbed down schematic? And now to the dumb question.... Off of my inverter do I just run a male to male extension cord to the first outlet of the loop to power all outlets? Is this ideal and or dangerous? I know these are dumb asks, but I would really appreciate your input. Thanks so much.

 

[JAS]

For the lights & TV, you can get by with a very inexpensive setup: (2) 6v Golf Cart batteries in series, A 300W Inverter (recommend Pure Sine Wave) and a 100W solar panel (more will charge faster). The coffee pot will necessitate a larger inverter (probably a 1000W minimum) and now you're pushing the limits of the (2) Golf Cart batteries (but, probably still doable for the 20 minutes of coffee making time). The saw and air compressor are the real problem. I would just go with a small gas generator for those. (A 2000W Inverter Style will be much quieter and more fuel efficient) That would also take care of the coffee maker no problem too.

Regarding the male to male cord that you're referring to... That is known as a "suicide" cord (for good reason) plug in the wrong end first and touch the other and you're getting zapped good! Will it work, yes. Should you do it, NO! It would be better (and to code) to utilized a transfer switch connected to your main AC panel. Then you just plug the inverter and/or generator into the transfer switch (with the appropriate male to female cord)

 

[happycalhoun]

Thank you so much for your reply. And safety warnings. I recently purchased a 2000W inverter generator and figured that would be best for the tools, just wanted to see what was doable. Also would like to use the generator for backup to the cabin as well. Solar is so cool but a daunting task to learn. I appreciate all the feedback and the wealth of knowledge provided. Do you have a link or recommendation on the type of transfer switch you mentioned? And would this also be needed if I decided to use the generator as the cabins power supply? Would the All-in-One
2400w 24V 110Vac Solar Inverter + 60A battery charger + 80A MPPT solar charger be a good option for my needs?

 

[JAS]

I'm thinking something like this: (as long a 6 circuits are enough)

https://www.amazon.com/Reliance-Con...9Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=

Yes, you can plug either the generator or the inverter into it (Just need the appropriate cable)

Yes, you could skip the transfer switch and wire the inlet directly to your Main Panel. However, if you use the Transfer Switch, you leave the option for connecting to grid down the road more easily attainable (and will keep your electrician and inspection officer happy)

Yes, I think the All-In-One (MPP Solar) would be a great option. However, you listed 24V (which is probably smart to start with), so that would necessitate a different battery setup (either (4) 6v Golf Cart batteries in series (cheapest option) or (2) 12V Deep Cycle Batteries (not marine or RV style batteries) in series) as well as 24v or higher Solar Panel setup.

 

[JAS]

If you're not averse to spending $$$, you could go with (2) battleborn LifePo4 batteries with that AIO and be set for a long time. Would handle your coffemaker no problem, probably the saw fine, and maybe even the air compressor. (not all at once of course)

Note: My small tank Air Compressor at our cabin will not run on my Champion 2000W Inverter Generator. I have to start the big loud one for that...

 

[happycalhoun]

Thank you JAS. This is exactly what I needed. 6 circuits should be enough. Info like this is so valuable for us newbies. Any other suggestions are always welcome.

 

[happycalhoun]

If I went with the All in One set up... what solar panels would you recommend for my small cabin and small needs? Yes an old school loud generator will probably be a must soon. Money is always tight but cry once is my moto. As long as the system is around 2-3k is my max.

 

[JAS]

You're welcome! And I still feel like a newbie myself. Lots of smarter people on here than me. I'm just relaying my experience setting up my off-grid vacation/hunting cabin... (And doing it relatively inexpensively. Just have to be smart on usage)

I believe most online places (Amazon) are only going to have 12V Panels (probably max 100W) for relatively affordable... (The shipping kills you on the bigger panels). What I did was I found (2) 24V panels (intended for a large grid tied system) on CraigsList that were new and left over from a pallet that a solar installer was trying to get rid of. I got them both for $150 about 6 years ago.

 

[happycalhoun]

Thats a great deal. I found a Renogy 270w on amazon for $600. But for my needs I don't need to go overkill. It's a weekend get away and run the lights and TV for the kids at night time. Im leaning towards the all in one because it's cleaner and takes the guess work out of it. Ill wire it to the transfer switch you recommended and that will power all of my outlets? And give me the added power and peace of mind to run my generator through the cabin when the inverter and solar system is not enough. Once again I really appreciate you input.

 

[JAS]

Beings that you are in NM, I would image you should be able to source panels locally and save on shipping.

Yep, run the AIO to the Transfer Switch (you probably could hard wire it, but, I wouldn't. That way you swap the Inverter with the Generator easily if necessary). That will light up all your outlets. The nice thing about the AIO is that you can do pass through AC with it.

Oh, you'll probably want an inlet somewhere outside for plugging the generator into . (Don't think you'd want to have to drag a cord in through the door or window)

 

[happycalhoun]

Good point i'll start pricing locally and hopefully someone will have a deal. Haha "pass through AC"? Newbie here. Thanks JAS.

 

[JoeHam]

Since you are open to ideas consider this:

Do away with the cost and complexity of a generator and transfer switch completely. Spend a little more on LiFePO4 batteries and go completely solar.

Check out SanTanSolar.com. I just got some brand new 375w Amerisolar panels, shipped to Ohio for under $200 each, and a lot of that cost was shipping. You can decide if it's worth a trip to AZ to get panels or not to save shipping costs.

Lastly, I would suggest putting in a real load panel and wire everything to code just in case you end up on grid power. Feed it with your inverter for now. I think if you get some experience with solar, and value your independence, you will never end up on grid.

Oh, and Happy Independence Day!

 

[happycalhoun]

Happy Independence Day!! I am very open to suggestions, you don't learn without asking or trying. So I really appreciate your input. I would say my energy will be really low the majority of the time. This place will be used primarly to get out of the city and enjoy the outdoors with my kids and wife. The hottest ticket item is a tv for the kids before bed, coffee pot for the wife, and shop lights for me. If you or anyone else has a design and or favorite componants I welcome any ideas. Thanks again.

 

[JoeHam]

Well I will take a swing at it, based on my experience.

For a battery, I say go big or stay home. Here is a thread with the latest battery I have on order. Embedded in that thread is also another about a battery I built from Fortune cells earlier this spring. Note that I prefer 48v nominal for a number of reasons. You can get to each thread from here:

100 Ah LiFePO4 @ $1250 usd. 48v nominal

Let me start by saying that I have an affliction where I read almost every post on this forum. I then wander down various paths following up on what I find interesting. I recently came across this company on one of my rabbit hole trips and I cannot remember the thread where I found this...

diysolarforum.com

I think the all in one units are fine but I have gone to separate components just as a personal choice. I have two different inverters I use and am happy with, both are 3000W, 48v units. One is made by WZRELB, commonly available on eBay or Amazon. The other is by Sigineer and is a bit beefier to run some AC motors with huge startup needs.

I have a Victron 48v Solar Charge controller that was around $167 shipped, includes bluetooth etc. and is the best thing going IMHO. Great price and the Victron is probably the nicest part of my system.

Add some panels and you are done. I think the system could easily support your needs for a weekend.

 

[MichaelK]

I'm hearing more and more negative impressions concerning the "all in one" units mentioned here. Like Joe, I've gone the individual component route, and have gotten excellent performance out of my system. One advantage is you can upgrade individual components one by one to increase capacity.
To allow proper growth over time, I'd start out with a higher voltage. Skip 12V and go immediately to 24V. It will be better in the long run. Second, don't buy panels off the internet that need shipping. Shipping is the single biggest cost, and you'll get the best deals with local pickup. I've even bought panels off of Ebay, with local pickup decided before I paid for the panels. Four watts per dollar is realistic when you pick up locally. My last purchase was some panels off Craigslist for 22 cents per watt.

Install a regular house panel now, and then run all your wiring through it to the loads. You can connect your inverter to one circuit. Eventually, you can upgrade to a sophisticated split-phase inverter made by Magnum, Outback, or Schneider which produce split-phase power and are designed to be hard-wired to the electrical panel. That's how I did it.

 

[Deleted member 165]

Where in New Mexico? I might be close to you.

 

[DASH]

The last thing You probably want to hear, is a generator running that is only being used to run a few lights, or other light loads. Design a solar system to run the small stuff, and use the gas generator for the high electrical demand equipment. You can inexpensively build Your own Solar system or get a Solar Generator and a solar Panel or two.

 

[Deleted member 165]

The last thing You probably want to hear, is a generator running that is only being used to run a few lights, or other light loads. Design a solar system to run the small stuff, and use the gas generator for the high electrical demand equipment. You can inexpensively build Your own Solar system or get a Solar Generator and a solar Panel or two.

Ummm...that's exactly what he stated his intentions are.

 

[happycalhoun]

Where in New Mexico? I might be close to you.

Im In the Albuquerque Area.

 

[happycalhoun]

You guys are awesome. I really appreciate all the input. It's got me pumped up to get going on my solar adventure. Im looking at this set up right now: https://www.lowes.com/pd/Renogy-4-Module-42-2-in-x-19-6-in-400-Watt-Solar-Panel/1001462682. I get 10% off at Lowes so it will help a little. What inverter would you suggest with this to tie into my 110AC power box and any other componants you see me needing? Once again I appreciate everything.