420Ah Cells on Aliexpress!?

robbyweber

New Member
Joined
Jun 16, 2021
Messages
4
Final Result these are 236Ah where one cell went below 3V much faster so if they were all the same they would be good 240 Ah Batteries. The one cell that was damaged the most was the one that held the least capacity. I got 700 of the 1200 back so I did not get screwed badly and I am posting this so you wont!
 

digitaldoug

New Member
Joined
Dec 12, 2020
Messages
28
Andreas thanks! you beat me to it.....

TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE! 420Ah
I got the 420 AH 8 piece order and It took 4 months for only one of the 4 cell packages to show up. the other one is still missing. I have a 24V setup and needed the other 4 but for now I started testing the cells with my 12V overkill solar BMS. The top balancing went well and all cells started at 3.63V. When charging from about 50% I only used 120AH and that already gave me the hint. The main reason I bought them was that I wanted to uncover the truth about those cells and share with the community. The shop on Alibaba is only a reseller and they repeatedly told me the 420Ah where correct and that they accomplish that with higher density within the cells and different technology that they can't disclose, well now we know!
My final test will be completed tomorrow but I am just at 205AH and the voltage is down to 12.7 and per cell 3.180 so close to 15-20% of the capacity. So I will not make it past 300Ah which means the batteries are a scam. On top of that the shipping was terrible. Those cells have the laser attached bolts on them that break off easily and they packaged the cells so poorly that when the package was upside down the terminals aka screws got the full load. that not only bent the top of the battery but most screws where bent and 80% detached since they were at an angle only one side was still attached. I had to fix one cell by drilling out the terminal and tapping the hole to set a new bolt.
One thing I have to mention is that I bought the cells for 1200 and AliExpress refunded me 700 based on the late delivery and the damaged cells. the shop agreed to this mediation which speaks for AliExpress. The shop simply is trying to make money by marketing wrong capacity that they have not verified and do not want to.
Tomorrow I will give you the exact capacity but i would not recommend the esare cells and especially the Shop910787018 Store since they are the ones packaging the cells. Not sure who created the artsy labels showing 420Ah but hey usually if it is too good to be true it usually isn't. Hope this helps you to make your decision, thanks Rob
I got 20 of these cells and capacity tested them. Very close to 240Ah. I consider that a scam. Even Aliexpress.com knows they are a scam. The thing I do not understand is how Aliexpress.com thinks they can survive by scamming its customers. I would think that it would be simple to understand how amazon.com walmart.com newegg.com etc. were very sucessful. Their customers were the people that made them very rich CEO's. Jeff Bezos is nearly the richest person in the world. He made customer satisfaction the first 10 priorities. A 420Ah/5.1Kg Lifepo4 cell would be the Trillion dollar battery, because it would have an energy density of 263.5 Wh/Kg. That would mean the Lithium-ion Cell would be obsolete (100-265 Wh/Kg). Lifepo4 cells cost much less that Lithium-ion cells. One other thought. I have ordered many things from Aliexpress.com. They have been my go-to store to get parts for my solar system. Amazon.com is not an option where I am. One more comment: the 420Ah cells do not have QR codes/serial numbers. To be complete they have a printed sticker that says nothing about the cell. All Lifepo4 cells I know of have QR codes that are laser printed on the cells with manufacture, date of manufacture and serial number. The cells were probably put in sombodys recycle bin before the laser QR code treatment. Below is evidence rejected by aliexpress.com
 

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Batvette

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Joined
Feb 25, 2021
Messages
405
Obviously the solution is to wait till the new for 2022 latest version 510 ah cells are available. Because, hey, China. They are so much more experienced with capitalism than we are.
 

digitaldoug

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Dec 12, 2020
Messages
28
Has anyone seen or tested these? Wondering what their actual capacity/quality is. I would like to order a set of batteries to start my DIY battery build for our new RV. I have zero experience with Aliexpress so, naturally, I have reservations. The issues I keep running into are individual cell capacity vs shipping. Adding more lower capacity batteries adds so much in shipping cost, upping the individual cell capacity is the only economical way to keep shipping & overall cost down. I would like to be able to run the rooftop AC unit (1500-1600w running). So, I figure a minimum 7kw battery array should last the better part of the night. BUT these cells could easily power that load with room to spare at 420Ah/cell...mo powa baby!

Yes, I have 20 of them. This is a aliexpress.com scam. I measured 240Ah per cell. I then ordered 320Ah cells. They
have tracking numbers that are only recognized by www.17track.net. Try it, my tracking number is: HJYTE2133991462YQ.
It will show "at nearest Post Office". If you change the 62 to some other number, the tracing info will have exact times to arrive, but
in different countries. They all say they arrived at every destination at 2021-10-16 19:04. Obviously, I will never receive the order and
Aliexpress.com will say they were delivered, so I will not get my money back. Aliexpress.com has got very aggressive with
their scams. But, you can be as stupid as me and expect your CC will send you money back. We will see.
 

thegoogler

Solar Enthusiast
Joined
Apr 15, 2021
Messages
97
I got 20 of these cells and capacity tested them. Very close to 240Ah. I consider that a scam. Even Aliexpress.com knows they are a scam. The thing I do not understand is how Aliexpress.com thinks they can survive by scamming its customers. I would think that it would be simple to understand how amazon.com walmart.com newegg.com etc. were very sucessful. Their customers were the people that made them very rich CEO's. Jeff Bezos is nearly the richest person in the world. He made customer satisfaction the first 10 priorities. A 420Ah/5.1Kg Lifepo4 cell would be the Trillion dollar battery, because it would have an energy density of 263.5 Wh/Kg. That would mean the Lithium-ion Cell would be obsolete (100-265 Wh/Kg). Lifepo4 cells cost much less that Lithium-ion cells. One other thought. I have ordered many things from Aliexpress.com. They have been my go-to store to get parts for my solar system. Amazon.com is not an option where I am. One more comment: the 420Ah cells do not have QR codes/serial numbers. To be complete they have a printed sticker that says nothing about the cell. All Lifepo4 cells I know of have QR codes that are laser printed on the cells with manufacture, date of manufacture and serial number. The cells were probably put in sombodys recycle bin before the laser QR code treatment. Below is evidence rejected by aliexpress.com
I have a very US-centric view of the world, even having been to a few other countries in Europe and Asia. But I suspect AliExpress survives because there's a very large part of the world, especially developing countries, that doesn't expect honesty and very much follows a "buyer beware" mindset. Every gone to a market in India? I have. The aggressive tactics, "stretching of the truth", prices (and immediate discounts), and quality are all unbelievably sketchy to westerners. I've not been to China but I imagine it's similar (if not worse) there. AliExpress is a giant bazaar where the merchant in one stall may or may not be there next week. IMO it's up to you to decide if you want to buy from that merchant based on questions you ask, what other customers say about them, whether you think you can haggle a good bargain, etc. There's no FTC or other consumer protection in a giant (online Asian) merchant bazaar, save for whatever your credit card company will do for you.
BTW I suspect if enough people filed complaints with their CC such that chargebacks were astronomical, your CC would jack up merchant fees to cover the risk and/or AliExpress would stop allowing payment by CC because of the losses from chargebacks. It's just that the overall volume for AliExpress is so large that everyone (CC's, Ali*, merchants, etc) accepts the risk and additional losses in order to sell more stuff.

Note that I don't approve of the above, I'm just answer the question of "why does AliExpress not intervene?"

I don't know how AliExpress decides the case but I got a partial refund for my "280Ah" Liitokala cells which clearly had a 271Ah CATL QR code on them and tested at about 260Ah (and at a low C rate... these probably really are even lower Ah capacity technically). I didn't have to provide the kind of graph you did (BTW how did you generate that?) I just did my test, wrote a paragraph explaining what capacity they actually tested at, and asked for a pro-rated refund. The Liitokala store originally offered me $2. I told them these were 20Ah short and demanded they give me a ~8% refund (including shipping and tax). Liitokala did not respond but AliExpress did and within a month I had a $49.xx refund in my credit card.

I do wonder if it's easier to get a partial refund, if repeated issues with similar stores make it easier (or harder) to get a refund, or if it's just all being decided by a call center full of people and each person makes a different judgment call on these refunds.
 

digitaldoug

New Member
Joined
Dec 12, 2020
Messages
28
I have a very US-centric view of the world, even having been to a few other countries in Europe and Asia. But I suspect AliExpress survives because there's a very large part of the world, especially developing countries, that doesn't expect honesty and very much follows a "buyer beware" mindset. Every gone to a market in India? I have. The aggressive tactics, "stretching of the truth", prices (and immediate discounts), and quality are all unbelievably sketchy to westerners. I've not been to China but I imagine it's similar (if not worse) there. AliExpress is a giant bazaar where the merchant in one stall may or may not be there next week. IMO it's up to you to decide if you want to buy from that merchant based on questions you ask, what other customers say about them, whether you think you can haggle a good bargain, etc. There's no FTC or other consumer protection in a giant (online Asian) merchant bazaar, save for whatever your credit card company will do for you.
BTW I suspect if enough people filed complaints with their CC such that chargebacks were astronomical, your CC would jack up merchant fees to cover the risk and/or AliExpress would stop allowing payment by CC because of the losses from chargebacks. It's just that the overall volume for AliExpress is so large that everyone (CC's, Ali*, merchants, etc) accepts the risk and additional losses in order to sell more stuff.

Note that I don't approve of the above, I'm just answer the question of "why does AliExpress not intervene?"

I don't know how AliExpress decides the case but I got a partial refund for my "280Ah" Liitokala cells which clearly had a 271Ah CATL QR code on them and tested at about 260Ah (and at a low C rate... these probably really are even lower Ah capacity technically). I didn't have to provide the kind of graph you did (BTW how did you generate that?) I just did my test, wrote a paragraph explaining what capacity they actually tested at, and asked for a pro-rated refund. The Liitokala store originally offered me $2. I told them these were 20Ah short and demanded they give me a ~8% refund (including shipping and tax). Liitokala did not respond but AliExpress did and within a month I had a $49.xx refund in my credit card.

I do wonder if it's easier to get a partial refund, if repeated issues with similar stores make it easier (or harder) to get a refund, or if it's just all being decided by a call center full of people and each person makes a different judgment call on these refunds.
 

digitaldoug

New Member
Joined
Dec 12, 2020
Messages
28
1) "why does AliExpress not intervene?" I have asked myself that question with many possible answers.
My 1st one was "the algorithm" tuned to make the most (short term) profit. Algorithms don't care if
it is a scam or in your case, a small sham. My current thought is AliExpress.com knows it is
a scam and is afraid of losing money if it does fix it. You were lucky, probably because your in the US
or it was only $50. It is $5000 in my case. That suggest Aliexpress.com is not completely stupid.

2) "BTW how did you generate that?" Look at the picture; its all there: ZKETECH, model EBC-A40L. I
highly recommend it and bought it from aliexpress.com. It has a ~10bit AtoD, but is accurate to the bit.
That is the reason for the jags in the plot. The UI is typical awkward Chinese, but much better when
connected to a computer. The cost was about the same as one 420Ah cell. If you want I will post
a picture of my test setup -- the same one that I used to present my case to aliexpress.com. I may
be able to find the ridiculous replies I got from the seller after they examined the pictures.
All Aliexpress.com needed was a false claim from the seller - no evidence.

3) BTW, I live in Thailand -- for many years.
 

thegoogler

Solar Enthusiast
Joined
Apr 15, 2021
Messages
97
1) "why does AliExpress not intervene?" I have asked myself that question with many possible answers.
My 1st one was "the algorithm" tuned to make the most (short term) profit. Algorithms don't care if
it is a scam or in your case, a small sham. My current thought is AliExpress.com knows it is
a scam and is afraid of losing money if it does fix it. You were lucky, probably because your in the US
or it was only $50. It is $5000 in my case. That suggest Aliexpress.com is not completely stupid.

2) "BTW how did you generate that?" Look at the picture; its all there: ZKETECH, model EBC-A40L. I
highly recommend it and bought it from aliexpress.com. It has a ~10bit AtoD, but is accurate to the bit.
That is the reason for the jags in the plot. The UI is typical awkward Chinese, but much better when
connected to a computer. The cost was about the same as one 420Ah cell. If you want I will post
a picture of my test setup -- the same one that I used to present my case to aliexpress.com. I may
be able to find the ridiculous replies I got from the seller after they examined the pictures.
All Aliexpress.com needed was a false claim from the seller - no evidence.

3) BTW, I live in Thailand -- for many years.
1. Definitely could be. $50 out of $675 is probably an easy chargeback to deal with. I do agree I'm surprised they put up with the amount of fraud that seems to happen, but then I just assume my surprise is because I'm a westerner and I get all righteous when someone tries to scam me whereas the majority of the world is probably used to it and knows to avoid the situation in the first place.

2. That's cool. I may try to pick that up. Hopefully if I order of AliExpress it actually arrives and works ;-)
 
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