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48v inverter low voltage cutoff leaves so much on the table.

jbatx

I make stuff with things
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Austin, TX
Regarding low voltage cut off by inverters.

How do you all deal with inverters that cut off long before your bms(s) will?

My xyz 3000w inverter cuts ac power at about 46.5 input volts. This leaves so much unused capacity in my 48v 200ah battery bank.
 
Actually, no, it's not leaving much capacity on the table.
46.5/16= 2.9 volts. Less than 8% remaining.
I suppose it's a matter opinion then...

That's 4.8v in the pack until bms cutoff at 2.6 (that my setting). Even with the flat discharge curve, I think that's significant
 
I have my inverter cutoff set to 3.1 volts per cell as I don't want my cells going into the low knee at significant current.
I've observed that the cell temperature jumps up when entering the low knee at high current.
Its a stressor that I choose to avoid.
 
Even with the flat discharge curve, I think that's significant
At 2.9 volts per cell, you are no longer in the flat part of the discharge curve. From 2.9 to 2.6 volts on my 310ah pack with load would literally only add minutes to capacity.
Not worth it for the damage done to the cells.
Maybe you should consider building another battery
 
I currently run a 18 cell pack and am getting ready to change to a 20 cell pack....if your inverter and charger are adjustable to do that voltage you can do it and be more efficient. They make 18s and 20s BMS's and Balancers.
 
At 2.9 volts per cell, you are no longer in the flat part of the discharge curve. From 2.9 to 2.6 volts on my 310ah pack with load would literally only add minutes to capacity.
Not worth it for the damage done to the cells.
Maybe you should consider building another battery
You're right. I should have looked at the curve. I have 240ah more on the way
 
We guess you are using LIFPO4 battery , this battery has BMS built-in,and its cut off voltage is earlier than inverter cut off range.For example, 12V inverter works range DC 9.5-15.5V, but LIFPO4 battery works range 10-14V only.
 
We guess you are using LIFPO4 battery , this battery has BMS built-in,and its cut off voltage is earlier than inverter cut off range.For example, 12V inverter works range DC 9.5-15.5V, but LIFPO4 battery works range 10-14V only.
I'm using 48v 100ah LiFePO4 banks with overkill bms's. I'm aware of how they work. I also have them monitored by esp32 devices that I built.
 
Be aware of the voltage difference between battery pack terminals (which the BMS will act upon) and the Inverter & Solar Charger Controller who will also see differing voltages thanks to wire connections and resistance. Unlike brute force lead, all Lithium is far more 'sensitive' due to the narrow voltage curve. Full LFP range is 2.500-3.650, General Working Range is 3.000-3.400 with 3.200 nominal. Matched/Batched/Binned A+ cells can easily work between 2.900-3.450 - All in Volts per cell. from 2.500-2.900 & 3.450-3.650 only represents roughly 3-5% gross capacity, NOT NET and are the "hockey stick curves". LFP can be charged to 3.650V per cell and saturated till <2A are taken and within 1 hour of settling that will drop to 3.500V per cell +/- a bit. This is perfectly normal.

BTW Endamps / Tailcurrent for LFP is 0.05C )0.05 X 100AH = 5A)

SCC's typically will read a higher voltage during charge and lower voltage when no solar input is available.
Inverter/Chargers will also typically read a lower voltage during discharge and higher voltage during charge mode.
Therefore Voltage Correction needs to be applied to the SCC during charge & inverter during discharge. Especially if using an Inverter/Charger AGS to auto-start a genset.

Check the voltage at your SCC during Charge and when there is no sun to get a good picture of what it sees at the "device" terminals compared to the battery pack terminals (NOT Busbar if there is one).
Check the voltage at Inverter & Battery during Inversion only & again during charge only.
Also if possible verify the Cell Voltages when the battery packs are @ 3.000 and @ 3.400+ Volts per cell and observe cell deviations. The higher OR lower the cell voltage, the higher likelihood for increased deviations between cells. These tend to be more pronounced outside of the "working voltage" range. Avoid levels where LVD or HVD cutoffs do occur. This is also when weak connections between cells or other issues may appear.

Hope it Helps, Good Luck
 
Be aware of the voltage difference between battery pack terminals (which the BMS will act upon) and the Inverter & Solar Charger Controller who will also see differing voltages thanks to wire connections and resistance. Unlike brute force lead, all Lithium is far more 'sensitive' due to the narrow voltage curve. Full LFP range is 2.500-3.650, General Working Range is 3.000-3.400 with 3.200 nominal. Matched/Batched/Binned A+ cells can easily work between 2.900-3.450 - All in Volts per cell. from 2.500-2.900 & 3.450-3.650 only represents roughly 3-5% gross capacity, NOT NET and are the "hockey stick curves". LFP can be charged to 3.650V per cell and saturated till <2A are taken and within 1 hour of settling that will drop to 3.500V per cell +/- a bit. This is perfectly normal.

BTW Endamps / Tailcurrent for LFP is 0.05C )0.05 X 100AH = 5A)

SCC's typically will read a higher voltage during charge and lower voltage when no solar input is available.
Inverter/Chargers will also typically read a lower voltage during discharge and higher voltage during charge mode.
Therefore Voltage Correction needs to be applied to the SCC during charge & inverter during discharge. Especially if using an Inverter/Charger AGS to auto-start a genset.

Check the voltage at your SCC during Charge and when there is no sun to get a good picture of what it sees at the "device" terminals compared to the battery pack terminals (NOT Busbar if there is one).
Check the voltage at Inverter & Battery during Inversion only & again during charge only.
Also if possible verify the Cell Voltages when the battery packs are @ 3.000 and @ 3.400+ Volts per cell and observe cell deviations. The higher OR lower the cell voltage, the higher likelihood for increased deviations between cells. These tend to be more pronounced outside of the "working voltage" range. Avoid levels where LVD or HVD cutoffs do occur. This is also when weak connections between cells or other issues may appear.

Hope it Helps, Good Luck
Solid response. Thank you. I read it slowly. This matches observations I have had with my monitors.
 
I suppose it's a matter opinion then...

That's 4.8v in the pack until bms cutoff at 2.6 (that my setting). Even with the flat discharge curve, I think that's significant


I think it is saving your battery pack from user error. No telling how many people ruin their batteries by overcharging and discharging way too low.
 
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