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4awg lug terminal too big for 4awg wire ?

sunrise

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I just purchased 10 feet WindNation 4awg red/black wires and 10pcs WindNation copper lug terminals from amazon,
But it loosk like the copper wire core diameter is significantly smaller than the lug tube inner diameter. seems like I can push the entire wire with insulating jacket into the tube with a bit of force. Is this expected? I have never crimped 4awg or larger wires before, just double check. It seems WindNation's 6awg lug would be a more snuggle fit for their 4awg wire.

Thanks!

IMG_1021.jpg
 
The terminal should be flared, and the wire will slide easily into it. A proper crimper will compress the hell out of it.
 
I'd go with whatever lug you can barely fit the wire into regardless of what the size is.

Even with my hydraulic crimp tool, if the wire is too small for the lug you won't get a good sealed crimp.
 
I recently did a couple dozen 4/0 and 2/0 lugs, and My wires fit snug into the terminals prior to crimping.

I recommend first looking at the lugs. Mine were not from WIndy Nation, but the Lugs were stamped with both the lug and ring, for example 2/0. 3/8 meaning two odd crimp to a 3/8 ring. If they’re stamped and not the right lugs, you can return them. You can also contact Windy Nation.

I’ve crimped smaller things like 6 AWG and 8 AWG that were a little loose, and the looser the lug fit, the bigger the flare was. Ideally I like to see no flare, but I’ve only gotten no flare on smaller wires 10 AWG and smaller, otherwise there’s at least a little flare.
 
4/0 would be about 2.3x the diameter of 4 awg
That would certainly explain things, but that ring terminal doesn't look more than twice diameter of the wire.
 
Doesn't look like the right lug to me. If you tried to crimp that down, it might cause the lug to break/crack. I had no fitment problems with my TEMCo lugs and wires.
 
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I think there is a lot metric lugs from china floating around which maybe marketed on line as imperial? So AWG 4 is close to 25mm. Or the wire maybe metric, but it should say on the insulation it's gauge.

 
I was told by a local battery store that I could either crimp mine or fill it with solder.
I thought it was large as well.
But it is just the right size I found after hammer crimping mine with a real [and proper] hammer crimper.
But whether filled with solder or not. It should be fine. :)

EDIT: I bought 8 gauge lugs and used them for both 8 and 10 gauge wire and they are both doing just fine.
 
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I just purchased 10 feet WindNation 4awg red/black wires and 10pcs WindNation copper lug terminals from amazon,
But it loosk like the copper wire core diameter is significantly smaller than the lug tube inner diameter. seems like I can push the entire wire with insulating jacket into the tube with a bit of force. Is this expected? I have never crimped 4awg or larger wires before, just double check. It seems WindNation's 6awg lug would be a more snuggle fit for their 4awg wire.

Thanks!

View attachment 28533
I agree, that lug is too large for the wire.
Return them.
 
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Wrong lug or wrong wire. Don't use solder.

Agreed. Using solder in this situation - to take up space - would be really, really bad. I used to have a link to a hardware hacker site that had a really good discussion about soldering. In an environment where vibration is present, soldering can cause broken strands. Soldering can also increase resistance.

A good, solid crimp, with heat shrink tubing will reliably last a long time.
 
Agreed. Using solder in this situation - to take up space - would be really, really bad. I used to have a link to a hardware hacker site that had a really good discussion about soldering. In an environment where vibration is present, soldering can cause broken strands. Soldering can also increase resistance.

A good, solid crimp, with heat shrink tubing will reliably last a long time.
Yes, unless melting pure silver into the joint, a quality crimp is best
 
Trojan recommends soldering and crimping. Here is a Trojan White paper that says,

"It is therefore highly recommended that connectors not only be mechanically crimped but also soldered to the cable’s end. A properly crimped and soldered connector will provide a low resistance connection and reduce the amount of heat buildup at the connecting junction."

WP_BatteryCableGuide_0512.pdf (trojanbattery.com)

I'm personally not sold on it, but if I have another large gauge project, I will probably Crimp and make better by Soldering with my blow torch.
 
I would consider soldering and crimping superior to a poor crimp connection .... but not superior to a proper crimp which results in fusion of the metals and is gas tight.

They are probably assuming most people won't do a good crimp connection.
 
I would consider soldering and crimping superior to a poor crimp connection .... but not superior to a proper crimp which results in fusion of the metals and is gas tight.

They are probably assuming most people won't do a good crimp connection.

I've seen no other paper or study that has studied proper crimping. I was surprised when I read that. I would like to see the thermal data on a the same high draw load for both a good crimped cable with the metal fused together and the same cable crimped and soldered. For me, that would totally put the issue to rest. I see plenty of "best ways" to crimp a battery cable on YouTube, but each one is different and goes from hammer crimp, to hammer crimp and solder, to Hydraulic crimping, etc...

What would you use for a proper crimp connection? I found that a very hard question and went with an 11 ton hydraulic crimper for my 2 AWG, 2/0 AWG, and 4/0 AWG crimps. TEMCo Industrial Hydraulic Cable Lug Crimper TH0005 V2.0 (11 US TON) 10 AWG to 600 MCM Electrical Terminal Cable Wire Tool Kit with 32 Die Sets - - Amazon.com.

I'm sure there's better out there, but I felt I was at the end of the internet looking for kits.
 
This is a good guide for crimping: https://www.ttieurope.com/content/d.../1473-TE-Connectivity-Good-Crimping-v3Web.pdf

For smaller ring terminals (14-28) my problem is figuring out which crimp tool or die to use. I have a variety of connectors with heat shrink tubing already installed. I've been using the wrong die on those and I mangle them badly. I'm leaning towards using uninsulated connectors/terminals, just so I can better see if the crimp was done properly. I'll add my own heat shrink tubing after I get a good crimp.

The ferrules that I've been using have come out very nice.
 
I have 2 hydraulic crimp tools .... A Harbor Freight one for small to medium stuff that works surprising good .... and a Temco one for the larger stuff. I don't remember which model Temco, but it is the larger one.

I used to be an advocate of crimp and solder til I got the hydraulic crimp tools. If you size things correctly, it is amazing how good a connection they make. Both of mine end up with a hex shaped crimp. I had somewhat of a learning curve when starting to crimp the larger copper lugs and found that the best die for the job wasn't necessarily the one with the lug size listed.

If soldering, that is a learned skill also to get a solid connection. A cold solder joint is as bad or worse than a bad crimp.
 
What every one has overlooked is the stranded wires will be compromised by the heat of soldering. This is less true on smaller gauge wire as used in electronics, but a real problem in larger gauge cables. That is why you can't insure a boat if it is discoverd to have soldered cables.
 
I doubt the problem is the heat of soldering. Pacemakers and satellites are constructed with soldered joints (on PCB).
Stranded wire is a problem for soldering because flux is drawn between the strands, where it can cause corrosion. Solder wicked up between strands affects how the wire bends, could cause a stress concentration.

Some solder flux is more corrosive than other. "No clean" flux is cost-effective, especially for throw-away electronics with only a few years lifespan. It hardens to encapsulate the joints on a PCB.

Maybe long, slow heating of copper wire due to insufficient wattage soldering iron leads to more oxidation and more insulation damage.

But yes, crimped copper (bare or tinned), if done well, is quite reliable.
 
It takes more applied heat to solder larger diameter cables than the quick spot solder used on electronics. We always use rosin flux for electrical soldering. The other flux are some sort of chloride salt that absorb moisture and are sure to fail in electronic use.
 
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