6000XP, Lifepower4's, and BMS funkiness. Update failed, can only charge on Lead Acid setting.... ?

[DioRox]

Howdy everyone. I got my 6000XP up and running last week with (2) 48v Lifepower4's. I updated both of them with the latest and greatest firmware, and all went well. Today, I removed those 2 batteries, and connected 4 older Lifepower4's. Prior to connecting those, I tried updating the BMS on each of them, and each one failed. My Get Boot Information, failed on each one. I tried updating anyway, and of course it failed. So, I went ahead and connected them up to my inverter anyway. All are connected via busbar in my cabinet. When I turned it on, I got an error and no charging at all. I kind of expected that. My frown face came back on my screen. So I remotely changed the Lithium battery type, to lead acid. They started charging immediately. I had about 1300 watts banging out of each string. My SOC was all over the place, which isn't surprising. It's been a long time since these have been charged, and I've never fully used them yet. Anyway... after they charged for a bit, I thought, I wonder if that tricked it into doing what it needs to do. So I switched it back to lithium, and no, it did nothing. Error came back, no charging, dead in the water. Okay fine. I switch it back to lead acid, and they start to charge again. But this time, they are charging at a trickle speed. My panels are in full sun right now, and it should read much more than this. Somehow it seems it's being throttled. I'm wondering if this is due to the BMS. Nor will the monitor show me my SOC any longer.
So, wondering what to do, if anything. Maybe I just need to wait it out and let these get some charge in them to balance out a bit. Or, am I completely overlooking something? Which, is likely. It's only showing 70 watts per string now. This was immediately after the reboot back to lead acid, but the first time I set it to lead acid, they were rockin. I'm at a loss.

 

[marionw]

Are you operating in "Closed Loop" which is to say, do you have the "Master BMS" (battery address 0) connected to the inverter with the inverters BMS communications settings correctly set? In closed loop the BMS is reporting SOC to the inverter.

Also verify on the "ProgramUpgrade" tab that you have selected the correct battery address for the "Device address"

The computer (and BMS Test) requires you connect using the BMS RJ45 jack pins 1&2 connected via an RS485 To USB connecter. Pins 7&8 will not work. It's possible you do not have the correct cable (even though it's an EG4 cable).

I had a lot of issues with cables so I made my own: also try baud rates 9600 and 19200

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[DioRox]

Are you operating in "Closed Loop" which is to say, do you have the "Master BMS" (battery address 0) connected to the inverter with the inverters BMS communications settings correctly set? In closed loop the BMS is reporting SOC to the inverter.

Also verify on the "ProgramUpgrade" tab that you have selected the correct battery address for the "Device address"

The computer (and BMS Test) requires you connect using the BMS RJ45 jack pins 1&2 connected via an RS485 To USB connecter. Pins 7&8 will not work. It's possible you do not have the correct cable (even though it's an EG4 cable).

I had a lot of issues with cables so I made my own: also try baud rates 9600 and 19200

Help with Pace BMS Comms

Hey, I have a Anenji battery pack. It's a 51.2V100AH battery. It has a Pace BMS but I cannot get any reliable communications with it. The seller sent me a BMS Tools v2.04 which they say should be able to talk to the battery. I'm getting nowhere. I have 3 RS232 cables, 1 from Amazon, 1 from the...

diysolarforum.com

query on SRNE reset times.

I have a 3KV SRNE hybrid controller which i monitor with an online datalogger. The info from the datalogger is good, however at 6PM the data for the days' info resets to zero. I am wondering if anyone has the same issues, and would disconnecting/reconnecting: the panels, AC input and the DC...

diysolarforum.com

Yes I'm operating in closed loop, all dips are down on my master battery. My cable are pins 1 & 2. I feel strongly it's not my cable, because I just got it and it worked great for my other 2 batteries. These 4 batteries have been sitting a long time, so I feel it's related to the BMS somehow.

 

[marionw]

Try disabling closed loop or just disconnect the BMS cable which will cause most inverters to use default/programmed settings. The Inverter will then charge based on battery voltage at the battery terminals.

What is the battery terminal voltage?

Does the BMS Test software display any battery data and you can't do an upgrade or are all functions not working?

 

[wildbillpdx]

You might try getting your hands on this: https://signaturesolar.com/eg4-lifepower4-automatic-updater-dongle/

It will theoretically fix FUBAR firmware.

 

[DioRox]

Yes I'm operating in closed loop, all dips are down on my master battery. My cable are pins 1 & 2. I feel strongly it's not my cable, because I just got it and it worked great for my other 2 batteries. These 4 batteries have been sitting a long time, so I feel it's related to the BMS somehow.

You might try getting your hands on this: https://signaturesolar.com/eg4-lifepower4-automatic-updater-dongle/

It will theoretically fix FUBAR firmware.

Haha, I ordered one a few hours ago. Thank you.

 

[EG4TechSolutionsTeam]

Haha, I ordered one a few hours ago. Thank you.

Try updating them with the updater dongle and if that doesn't work let us know we'd be happy to help.

 

[Quattrohead]

At 54 volts your batteries are pretty well charged so that could be why it's not pushing much into them now.

 

[DioRox]

Try disabling closed loop or just disconnect the BMS cable which will cause most inverters to use default/programmed settings. The Inverter will then charge based on battery voltage at the battery terminals.

What is the battery terminal voltage?

Does the BMS Test software display any battery data and you can't do an upgrade or are all functions not working?

Well this is where I'm at now. I joined all 6 of the batteries together. I used one of my batteries that was operating well and I had the updated BMS on it, as my master battery. So good battery in slot 1, all dip switches down, and then all the other batteries in various dipswitch positions so none are the same. After I did that, I was able to switch it back to Lithium on the inverter and everything was charging. I actually stayed on my battery bank all through the night. Last night however, I had to turn it off and go back to grid as I wasn't going to last through the night, and I saw that my #2 battery is in an error state.
So... I'm hoping that I can get a good reading with the BMS using my #1 battery, but, I'm not holding my breath.
Do I have to completely disconnect the entire battery bank from the inverter to check the BMS, or is shutting the battery breaker off on the inverter sufficient?

 

[wildbillpdx]

Batteries should have DIP set in sequence, 0, 1, 2, etc. All should have the same firmware installed. The instructions for the BMS software means you need to disconnect the data cable from the inverter. I don't remember needing to disconnect the battery power cables. When examining the batteries you need to know the DIP address for the software, which is easier if they are in sequence.

 

[EG4TechSolutionsTeam]

Do I have to completely disconnect the entire battery bank from the inverter to check the BMS, or is shutting the battery breaker off on the inverter sufficient?

You would need to disconnect the communication cable from the master battery to the inverter.

 

[DioRox]

Batteries should have DIP set in sequence, 0, 1, 2, etc. All should have the same firmware installed. The instructions for the BMS software means you need to disconnect the data cable from the inverter. I don't remember needing to disconnect the battery power cables. When examining the batteries you need to know the DIP address for the software, which is easier if they are in sequence.

They are in sequence in that manner pretty much. I just remembered that the master needs to be 0, and all the .rest need to be different. I did disconnect it from the inverter. They don't all have the same software, which yes, is a problem. But some of the batteries are failing the boot info and I'm not able to proceed with an update. I ordered the auto updater the other day so maybe that will do the trick when it gets here. I was able to obtain enough on my battery #2 that is has a Low SOC warning on it. I reset it but it came back. I'm not sure how to get rid of that error.

 

[DioRox]

You would need to disconnect the communication cable from the master battery to the inverter.

Roger that, did that. Not all of my batteries will read. What is the best method to deal with a Low SOC alarm? I've flipped breakers and reset it twice, it still comes back.

 

[EG4TechSolutionsTeam]

It seems like the battery needs to be charged, however are you able to post a picture of the BMS Test?

 

[DioRox]

It seems like the battery needs to be charged, however are you able to post a picture of the BMS Test?

It's in the stack with all the others, and was fully charged when I put it in there, but it seems to not be accepting a charge now. This is after a full discharge. This is one of my batteries that I had fully charged and was using with no issue. I had to switch the battery setting back to lead acid again. Should I remove that battery from the stack and put a charger on it?
I'll go try to do a BMS test again.

 

[DioRox]

Okay, so I got readings on just the one battery, and then I tried getting a reading on all of them, but a couple of them won't read.

 

[EG4TechSolutionsTeam]

It's in the stack with all the others, and was fully charged when I put it in there, but it seems to not be accepting a charge now. This is after a full discharge. This is one of my batteries that I had fully charged and was using with no issue. I had to switch the battery setting back to lead acid again. Should I remove that battery from the stack and put a charger on it?
I'll go try to do a BMS test again.

Thank you for the pictures.
It seems like the battery is out of sync with the others. I suggest isolating and charging it separately to match the charge level of the other batteries.

 

[marionw]

Okay, so I got readings on just the one battery, and then I tried getting a reading on all of them, but a couple of them won't read.

Can you increase the charge voltage (to a max of 57.2vdc) so the charge current as indicated in the screen shots is around 10 amps (10 amps per battery x number of batteries = inverter charging current). With the low charge current indicated in the screen shots the batteries will take some time to charge.

Disconnect BMS communications. This will allow you to manually control the charge process with the inverter settings.

Monitor the batteries with the BMS Test software and as cells reach 3.45 vdc start reducing the charge voltage to ensure no cell reaches 3.60 vdc. Ideally you want the cells to reach 3.50vdc. The Cell Overvoltage Alarm setpoint is 3.55vdc and reaching this is Ok, however the Cell Overvoltage Protection setpoint is 3.60vdc and you DO NOT want to reach this voltage as the "CMOS" will turn off and stop all charging.

If you can, get the inverter to charge from the grid rather than the PV array as you will have more control over the charging and possibly (depending on PV array output) more charging power. The screenshots show a rather small charging current. Once cells get above 3.45vdc then a lower charging current at 4 to 5 amps is OK.

Check your inverter charging parameters. There are separate parameters for charging from the grid, Charging from PV and there are also parameters for both.

 

[DioRox]

Can you increase the charge voltage (to a max of 57.2vdc) so the charge current as indicated in the screen shots is around 10 amps (10 amps per battery x number of batteries = inverter charging current). With the low charge current indicated in the screen shots the batteries will take some time to charge.

Disconnect BMS communications. This will allow you to manually control the charge process with the inverter settings.

Monitor the batteries with the BMS Test software and as cells reach 3.45 vdc start reducing the charge voltage to ensure no cell reaches 3.60 vdc. Ideally you want the cells to reach 3.50vdc. The Cell Overvoltage Alarm setpoint is 3.55vdc and reaching this is Ok, however the Cell Overvoltage Protection setpoint is 3.60vdc and you DO NOT want to reach this voltage as the "CMOS" will turn off and stop all charging.

If you can, get the inverter to charge from the grid rather than the PV array as you will have more control over the charging and possibly (depending on PV array output) more charging power. The screenshots show a rather small charging current. Once cells get above 3.45vdc then a lower charging current at 4 to 5 amps is OK.

Check your inverter charging parameters. There are separate parameters for charging from the grid, Charging from PV and there are also parameters for both.

That's a lot for me to unpack, haha. It will take me some time to go through all of that. You are way further advanced in this than I am.
Which one of these are considered my PV input for charging? I don't have this connected to the grid.

 

[marionw]

I do not have an EG4 6000XP so I will assume that you select "Lead Acid" for the battery type and then use the "Lead Acid" settings. For now just set the "Charge Voltage (V)" and "Float Voltage (V)" to the same values not to exceed 57.2. The "Charge Current Limit (Adc)" default of 125 should be fine. I would expect that as you adjust the charge voltages the charging current as read by the BMS Test software will change, increase the voltage and current will increase, decrease the voltage and current will decrease, however the charge power available will depend on the PV power available after the inverter satisfies the AC output load requirements. Lower charge current means longer charge time so if possible limit the AC output loads on the inverter to increase the available power for battery charging.

 

[DioRox]

I have just left everything charging from PV with no load, and my #2 battery finally got out of error mode. I tried updating the batteries again, but they failed again. The auto updater I ordered 4 days ago from SS still hasn't shipped as of this morning, so not sure when I'll be able to get those updated, but gosh it sure would be nice. I have it all on lead acid again since it's really my only option. I did set the flat and charge voltages to the same as you suggested.
I definitely don't want longer charge times but I don't know how to change the settings on this inverter to limit the output as you suggested. I am trying to ask EG4 about those settings, but they have not been responding to emails either. I feel like I just have to wait this out and keep them charging and cycling until someday I can get them updated and all on the same page together.

 

[DioRox]

Okay..... I finally received my auto update tool on Friday. I really wanted to get the software updated on all the batteries before I tried any other troubleshooting. Thinking about these auto updaters though... I saw on the video where it states that these will update to the most current BMS version, however, that is not true. I downloaded the latest and greatest for my Lifepower4's from Eg4 and updated software on two of them prior to adding in the rest of my stack. That updated both of those batteries to V3.40. After using the updater on my other 'problem' batteries, that were all running BMS version 3.10, they were successfully updated to V3.37. I went ahead and used it on my other 2 batteries literally to roll back their versions from 3.40 to 3.37 just to have consistency. I wonder if there will be a way we can update our auto updaters when they start rolling out newer versions. At any rate... I was able to switch my entire stack back to Lithium Ion, which I'm very happy about. One thing to mention on the monitoring software... Due to my BMS issue I've had my 6000XP set to lead acid so it would charge. It doesn't show the percentage your batteries are at on the main page when you're under lead acid like it does for LI. Mildly annoying, but okay. I was going to look at my % on the 'Overview' tab.

It was showing 82%. I took it offline, updated everything, checked each battery which ranged from 40-46% roughly, and reconnected everything and fired it back up. It promptly dropped my SOC to 42%. Wow. Interesting that the lead acid option showed almost a 50% surplus of what I was actually running.
So, I connected everything and tried using the BMS test to read the entire stack, but for some reason, it won't show my #4 and #6 batteries in the stack configuration. Not sure why, it will show them if I connect to them individually. No biggy I guess, as long as they are not erroring out any longer.
I got charged up to 82% today via PV, and my voltage is up to 53.4 so it's creeping back up to where it needs to be. I want to give it a few days and recheck my voltages now that the batteries are updated. I just hate to pull them offline and charge via grid when the sun is shining.

 

[marionw]

Unless EG4 changed anything the Auto Firmware Update Device is tied to version v3.37 (which is not in the longer term an issue, good firmware). With all batteries updated to v3.37 (which is in my experience is not a bad version) you should be able to update to the latest firmware using the BMS Test software (and latest firmware from EG4 website).

Having ALL batteries at the same firmware version is ideal whether it is v3.37 or the latest (I have six with v3.37).

At the end of the day you need to Manage the charge such that all cells in the battery reach 3.50 vdc (not to reach or exceed 3.60 vdc "Cell Overvoltage Protection"). With any cell at 3.45 vdc, the BMS will start to balance the cells ("BAL" will be displayed by the cell voltage in the BMS Test software).

Ideally you will want to get all cells (if possible) to at least 3.50 vdc (at least at or above 3.45vdc).

3.55vdc is the Cell Overvoltage Alarm setpoint (Ok to reach this).

3.60 vdc is the Cell Overvoltage Protection setpoint, if a cell voltage reaches this the BMS with turn off the Charge MOSFETS (CMOS) and no further battery charge will occur.

When cells reach 3.45vdc and balancing starts the BMS will reset the SOC to 100%, this is not at a point where the battery is "Fully" charged. You need to manage the charge voltage to get as many cells as possible to reach 3.50vdc while not reaching 3.60vdc. A Cell Overvoltage Alarm (3.55vdc) is OK but any Cell Overvoltage Protection (3.60) will stop any further charging.

Often a battery will have one or more cells that are "runners" These cells will charge much faster than others and reach the Cell Overvoltage Protection setpoint stopping further charging (The Charge MOSFETS get turned off) thus preventing any other cells to "Fully" charge (to reach at least 3.50vdc) so you need to manage the charge voltage to hopefully prevent these "runners" from stopping the charge and to allow the other cells to catch up

 

[DioRox]

I'm not familiar with any of the battery versions, but yes, I wanted them all the same so I rolled those two back.

Managing the charge voltage- the only way I could do this, and get each one up to the specified voltage is to charge each one separately, correct? Am I able to set the voltage parameters within the BMS test app, or are those static parameters already set? I'm assuming this isn't something I have to sit and watch all day?

My batteries seemed to deplete a lot quicker last night for some reason. No extra loads were on.