I am completely off-grid and just added a second 6000xp so I have both setup in parallel. After a few cloudy days, I needed to start the generator to get the batteries back up but was having issues. After reading more in the manual, I saw that the generator needs to be connected to both 6000XP units to work. I am wondering how others running parallel inverters and a generator are splitting the generator to both inverters? I have 6-3 wire going to a generator plug outside my solar shack and the terminals on the 6000XP wont support more than 6 gauge. I really don't want to step down to 8 gauge wire but not sure how else to split the generator power between the two units?
6000XP Parallel with Generator
- Thread starter diycorey
- Start date
MaikaiLife
Solar Enthusiast
Have you considered splitting with polaris connectors?
DIYrich
Solar Wizard
Get a chargeverter and charge the battery directly.
EG4TechSolutionsTeam
Online Support for EG4 Electronics
If the generator is not less than 3%, the best way would be to use a chargeverter to avoid having issues with your inverter.
MaikaiLife
Solar Enthusiast
@diycorey isn’t asking how to spend more money to replace the built-in generator features on his inverter.
@EG4TechSolutionsTeam , why do you even include a generator feature if you're going to advise people to buy a chargeverter because their generator might have more than 3% harmonic distortion? Generators with 3% or less harmonic distortion probably make up less than 1% or 2% of the entire market. Advertising generator support and then excluding roughly 98% of the available generators is deceptive.
Sol-Ark suggests that anything with less than 15% is preferable, meaning roughly 90% of the generators available on the market are compatible. Why can Sol-Ark support a 15% threshold while EG4 insists on 3%? Is it because EG4 uses cheaper components that don't allow for a greater range of generator compatibility and then hides the real cost of a system with generator support by suggesting a chargeverter when the buyer finds out only a few dozen smaller generators can output 3% or less THD?
I'm not saying it's wrong to offer a product that fits a specific need, but constantly suggesting additional equipment whenever anyone wants to use a generator with their EG4 inverter feels like a cop-out. It seems the real issue is that EG4 inverters need component improvements. If that's the case, then be upfront about it. Acknowledge that nearly every generator won’t work with your required THD and be more forthcoming that additional equipment will be needed if you choose to go with EG4 and will have a generator.
Better yet, maybe provide a list of supported or approved generators so buyers can determine what works with EG4's narrow tolerance.
Okay that's my rant for the day.
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ScrotpusGobbleBottom
Corn Pop was a bad dude.
I love it!! You should post more often.Okay that's my rant for the day.
DIYrich
Solar Wizard
All your devices will see the generator, and thus the 15% thd.Okay that's my rant for the day.
OP's issue is not wanting to connect the generator inputs in parallel to the inverters. The easy solution is using a chargeverter to avoid the gen input.
dougbert
Solar Wizard
It is not just EG4 that recommends low THD
My XW Pro also refers to a low THD
the biggest issue on a generator charging a battery is that the generator MUST carry all the loads as well at the same time. AC bypass is used allowing the "inverter" to become a "battery charger". It can only be one or the other at a time. Supporting loads and the charger requires a generator that can support 1.5 to 2 times the load. A 12kw load factor on an inverter, would require 15kw to 20kw generator in order to cover the loads plus the charging load
A chargeverter setup allow use of a 4kw, 5kw or so generator to charge a large battery with out having to also support loads directly. The chargeverter will run house loads but from the battery through the inverter
here is a 5.7% THD non-inverter brushless generator - james has some fantastic set of videos fixing generators
My XW Pro also refers to a low THD
the biggest issue on a generator charging a battery is that the generator MUST carry all the loads as well at the same time. AC bypass is used allowing the "inverter" to become a "battery charger". It can only be one or the other at a time. Supporting loads and the charger requires a generator that can support 1.5 to 2 times the load. A 12kw load factor on an inverter, would require 15kw to 20kw generator in order to cover the loads plus the charging load
A chargeverter setup allow use of a 4kw, 5kw or so generator to charge a large battery with out having to also support loads directly. The chargeverter will run house loads but from the battery through the inverter
here is a 5.7% THD non-inverter brushless generator - james has some fantastic set of videos fixing generators
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EG4TechSolutionsTeam
Online Support for EG4 Electronics
@diycorey isn’t asking how to spend more money to replace the built-in generator features on his inverter.
@EG4TechSolutionsTeam , why do you even include a generator feature if you're going to advise people to buy a chargeverter because their generator might have more than 3% harmonic distortion? Generators with 3% or less harmonic distortion probably make up less than 1% or 2% of the entire market. Advertising generator support and then excluding roughly 98% of the available generators is deceptive.
Sol-Ark suggests that anything with less than 15% is preferable, meaning roughly 90% of the generators available on the market are compatible. Why can Sol-Ark support a 15% threshold while EG4 insists on 3%? Is it because EG4 uses cheaper components that don't allow for a greater range of generator compatibility and then hides the real cost of a system with generator support by suggesting a chargeverter when the buyer finds out only a few dozen smaller generators can output 3% or less THD?
View attachment 229064
I'm not saying it's wrong to offer a product that fits a specific need, but constantly suggesting additional equipment whenever anyone wants to use a generator with their EG4 inverter feels like a cop-out. It seems the real issue is that EG4 inverters need component improvements. If that's the case, then be upfront about it. Acknowledge that nearly every generator won’t work with your required THD and be more forthcoming that additional equipment will be needed if you choose to go with EG4 and will have a generator.
Better yet, maybe provide a list of supported or approved generators so buyers can determine what works with EG4's narrow tolerance.
Okay that's my rant for the day.
EG4 Electronics recommends a THD of less than 3% for generators used with inverters to ensure the quality and reliability of the power being supplied.
When we power loads with Generators, we allow the generator to pass through the inverter unimpeded. Lower THD means cleaner power, which is crucial for sensitive electronics like computers, TVs, and medical equipment. High THD can cause these devices to malfunction or suffer damage over time.
Inverters and other power conversion equipment operate more efficiently with low-THD power. High THD can lead to excessive heating and reduced efficiency, potentially shortening the lifespan of the equipment.
Many industry standards, such as IEEE 519-2014, recommend keeping THD levels low to ensure overall system reliability and performance. Adhering to these standards helps EG4 Electronics ensure their products meet regulatory and safety requirements.
High THD can cause electromagnetic interference, which can disrupt the operation of other electronic devices and communication systems.
And finding generators with the right specifications can be challenging, I agree that having a list of recommended generators would be very helpful. So, I will pass this idea on to our team and see what we can do. However, I have found that generators with less than 5% THD work well for most applications. While it's ideal to aim for a THD as close to 3% as possible.
I think this might be my best option for now. Then I will look into a charge inverter.
TM48
Solar Enthusiast
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MaikaiLife
Solar Enthusiast
Luxpower is printed on the front of the EG4 units, but do you see Luxpower on here supporting and helping people with their EG4 units?
scoharri
New Member
Screw all the back and forth with do this and do that. Get yourself a Chargeverter and you will have no issues.
www.currentconnected.com
EG4 Chargeverter GC - 48V 100A Battery Charger - 240/120V Input
Revolutionize the way you charge your batteries with the EG4 Chargeverter - a cutting-edge 48V charger boasting a charging capacity of 100A or over 5kW!
www.currentconnected.com
DIYrich
Solar Wizard
Note: Using the Generator function on the 6000xp, the generator has to be able to support Loads AND charge the battery. The 6000xp does a full transfer to the generator.
If you go the chargeverter route, you can put 5kW into the battery on a constant basis, and the 6000xp's take from the battery whatever they need. Less than 5kW, and the excess goes into the battery. More than 5kW, and the shortage comes out of the battery. Need more than 5kW, then parallel a 2nd chargeverter.
ScrotpusGobbleBottom
Corn Pop was a bad dude.
I thought the 6000xp had a "generator boost" functionality that would be like you described for the chargeverter.
I've never used the gen port so I can't confirm.
I've never used the gen port so I can't confirm.
Why do parallel 6000xp's need to have a generator connected to both? They are in true parallel where only one is really needed as long as loads are under 6kw. Is it true a generator has to be connected to both? Doesn't make sense why connecting to one wouldn't work.
ScrotpusGobbleBottom
Corn Pop was a bad dude.
Probably the same reason you need grid on both and that reason is no reason.
iMakerShop
New Member
- Joined
- Mar 26, 2021
- Messages
- 37
Now I understand why my Fortress Envy 12k (Luxpower/EG4) inverters are not working with my generator. I'm sure my 13kW Northern Tool generator (which has powered the house during outages with no problem in the past) likely does not meet the 3% THD "requirement" of the inverter. Frankly i don't buy the "sensitive electronics" argument because every computer, TV, and other modern electronic device has a switching power supply that's designed to operate over a very wide input voltage and frequency range. the power to the "sensitive electronics" is filtererd and regulated long after the AC->DC conversion step and so noise on the AC line will never be seen by the electronics using it.
I am disappointed that a $5000 inverter cant tolerate a "noisy" generator as an input and clean it up in the inverter the same way grid power is handled. The point of "Off-Grid" is that you don't have access to pristine power sources to charge batteries and power loads. Requiring investment in almost lab quality generators.
I'm thinking I may put a bridge rectifier on my generator's output with some filter capacitors to create a 350V virtual PV string to drive one of the spare MPPT charge controllers in the unit. Anyone see an issue with that approach?
I am disappointed that a $5000 inverter cant tolerate a "noisy" generator as an input and clean it up in the inverter the same way grid power is handled. The point of "Off-Grid" is that you don't have access to pristine power sources to charge batteries and power loads. Requiring investment in almost lab quality generators.
I'm thinking I may put a bridge rectifier on my generator's output with some filter capacitors to create a 350V virtual PV string to drive one of the spare MPPT charge controllers in the unit. Anyone see an issue with that approach?
A solution to pump power into an MPPT is a great idea.
DIYrich
Solar Wizard
Grid power is passthrough. The Inverter has to match the grid or generator. Get too "noisy", and the inverter can't follow the "noise", whether it be the Grid or a Generator.
Many "off-grid" inverters don't try to match the generator. That's why they require a generator that is capable of handling Load plus Charging Batteries. They switch entirely to the Generator to power load, and convert the AC to DC to charge batteries.
Just get a Chargeverter to charge the battery directly from the Generator.
iMakerShop
New Member
- Joined
- Mar 26, 2021
- Messages
- 37
Thanks for perspective. From my perspective having to shell out another $500+ dollars for chargeverter to compensate for what the inverter should be able to do seems like a waste of money. Besides 2 diodes, a cap, a breaker and some wiring can do the same job (it is afterall effectively making that MPPT a Chargeverter input) for less than $50 AND would take advantage of the capabilities I've already invested in (in this case the MPPT charge controller that is basically un-used). Besides, being a DIY solar system, just buying components takes the fun out of doing it your self and maybe helping others find new an innovative solutions.
AlohaSolar
New Member
I have two 6000XP's in parallel with a generator connected to both. It took me a while to figure out. I bought a small breaker panel and two 50A double breakers, and a 50A 240V rated plug at home depot. Used the plug to go from the generator to the breaker panel, then supplied the two inverters from the two double breakers, each having their own breaker as if they are separate appliances. I might be wrong the size of the double breakers (maybe 30A) but I know that I matched them with the breakers on the inverters.
Rednecktek
Emperor Of Solar
Just make sure you do a photo heavy build log with wiring diagrams so I can take notes.
Having to buy a $500 charger to use a $300 generator is silly! Having to buy a $1000 generator to use the built in battery charger I already paid for is down right stupid!
Seems like just another problem on the AC side of things, with an inverter advertised as hybrid grid interactive, and a price tag to match. Many should indeed be feeling like they were ripped off, and should have gone with cheaper off grid models, to spend the remaining making those aspects work, buying chargeverters, etc…@diycorey isn’t asking how to spend more money to replace the built-in generator features on his inverter.
@EG4TechSolutionsTeam , why do you even include a generator feature if you're going to advise people to buy a chargeverter because their generator might have more than 3% harmonic distortion? Generators with 3% or less harmonic distortion probably make up less than 1% or 2% of the entire market. Advertising generator support and then excluding roughly 98% of the available generators is deceptive.
Sol-Ark suggests that anything with less than 15% is preferable, meaning roughly 90% of the generators available on the market are compatible. Why can Sol-Ark support a 15% threshold while EG4 insists on 3%? Is it because EG4 uses cheaper components that don't allow for a greater range of generator compatibility and then hides the real cost of a system with generator support by suggesting a chargeverter when the buyer finds out only a few dozen smaller generators can output 3% or less THD?
View attachment 229064
I'm not saying it's wrong to offer a product that fits a specific need, but constantly suggesting additional equipment whenever anyone wants to use a generator with their EG4 inverter feels like a cop-out. It seems the real issue is that EG4 inverters need component improvements. If that's the case, then be upfront about it. Acknowledge that nearly every generator won’t work with your required THD and be more forthcoming that additional equipment will be needed if you choose to go with EG4 and will have a generator.
Better yet, maybe provide a list of supported or approved generators so buyers can determine what works with EG4's narrow tolerance.
Okay that's my rant for the day.
dougbert
Solar Wizard
the charger comes almost free, it is an INVERTER that is the important thing. once the inverter is designed and built then they see what type of charger it can beJust make sure you do a photo heavy build log with wiring diagrams so I can take notes.
Having to buy a $500 charger to use a $300 generator is silly! Having to buy a $1000 generator to use the built in battery charger I already paid for is down right stupid!
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