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600ah bank vs 1500w toaster oven

solarstuff

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Ontario, Canada
600ah bank vs 1500w toaster oven, powered by a Renogy Rover Li 30 powered by 300w of panels, all feeding a 2200w Giandel inverter.

Am I hurting my batteries when the Rover MPPT shows dips to 38% for 10 or 15 seconds, then jumps back up to 47% or 55%?

The second the load ends the batteries bounce all the way back to 90%+.

Please help me wrap my brain around this?

Thanks, all!
 
Am I hurting my batteries when the Rover MPPT shows dips to 38% for 10 or 15 seconds, then jumps back up to 47% or 55%?
This amount of voltage sag is pretty common and will not damage your batteries.
If the sag is great enough you inverter may cut off because of low voltage. Think of this more as a battery safety feature than a problem.
 
What chemistry are the batteries.
Lifepo4 is rated for 1 c discharge and can actually do it.
So you could get 600amps for 1 hour from lifepo4 if properly configured.
 
They're AGM-all same brand and model. I am much comforted by you saying the inverter would shut off before battery damage, Mister Sandals.

FWIW the battery took the cooking session (fresh bread, mm!) And came quickly back to 13.2v 100%.

Thanks for welcoming my question, all!

What chemistry are the batteries.
Lifepo4 is rated for 1 c discharge and can actually do it.
So you could get 600amps for 1 hour from lifepo4 if properly configured.
 
And came quickly back to 13.2v 100%.
Just keep your no-load voltage at 12v and up and you’ll be fine.
With only 300w of panels your charging time will need to be 5x your cooking time (1500w / 300w). But you have a hefty battery bank!

600ah x 12v = 7200wh
Using 50% of your capacity only (to keep it at 12v or more) you have 3600wh usable.
You can run your toaster roughly 2.4 hours between charging ( / 1500w = 2.4h)

But a full recharge will take a couple days assuming 5 hours of full sun per day:
3600wh / (300w x5h) = 1.2 days
 
Thanks again! Waiting on another MPPT to put up 3 more 100w panels :) This is my first foray but want tobdo it right :)

Just keep your no-load voltage at 12v and up and you’ll be fine.
With only 300w of panels your charging time will need to be 5x your cooking time (1500w / 300w). But you have a hefty battery bank!

600ah x 12v = 7200wh
Using 50% of your capacity only (to keep it at 12v or more) you have 3600wh usable.
You can run your toaster roughly 2.4 hours between charging ( / 1500w = 2.4h)

But a full recharge will take a couple days assuming 5 hours of full sun per day:
3600wh / (300w x5h) = 1.2 days
 
Got 6 100w panels for approx 125 each on sale at Canadian Tire (on par with cheapest new online) a couple months back--after my planning solar for a few years-- and just getting around to it now, but will definitely consider bigger panels for 'Phase 2'. Muwahaha.
 
Do you have heavy enough wire and good connections between the batteries, and also from the batteries to the inverter? The inverter is drawing about 150 amps if the oven is using 1500 watts. (1500 / 12 volts / 0.85 assumed efficiency = 150 amps.)
 
This amount of voltage sag is pretty common and will not damage your batteries.
If the sag is great enough you inverter may cut off because of low voltage. Think of this more as a battery safety feature than a problem.

So speaking of Voltage sag... my 24V AGM batterries went from 25.4V to below 24.5V when i fired up my Keurig. To brew two cups, the Wattage fluctuates between 1370Watts and 800Watts for approx 7-8mins. I have my low voltage alarm on my Samlex 2224 Inverter/generator set to 24.5V so this drop in Voltage trips the alarm. From the above comment, am i understanding correctly if i say that, Low Volatge under load wouldn't damage my batteries? If so, i will set my alarm for 24V (approx 50%). I have no DC loads on my battery bank (2×12V series paired in parralel with another 2x12V in series for a total of 165Ah). I keep an eye on my Batteries and fire up the generator/charger at approx 25V (80%). Solar panels are next on the list (within the next 4-6weeks)

Very interesting thread with good feedback ?
 
Setting the disconnect at 12/24v would be fine. If you still get nuisance trips, as low as 11.5/23v under a short-term, heavy load is ok. If you know the batteries are in good shape, then even lower for heavy loads may be ok -- that's a question for the battery manufacturer. The best scenario of course, is a disconnect that distinguishes between "heavy" loads and light loads. Some disconnects and inverters can do this I think, but I have no experience with them. Anyway, again, below 12/24v is a disconnect voltage for when there's an occasional high load, but you shouldn't routinely drain down to that level under a light load. Have a great time with your upcoming panels!
 
I haven't felt any warmth, and I have 1 AWG and 1/0' between the batteries.
Good enough?

(I am still using the Giandel -supplied cables to connect the inverter. Apparently that's debatable?)

PS: What's the wisdom on MC4 connectors bridging 12 awg from thepanels to 10awg to increase the length to the inverter (EDIT: the Charge Controller, NOT inverter ). I know not to go smaller, but is adding a bigger gauge also a problem?

Thank you all SO much. Just having this resource has been a lifesaver. The feedback has really made me fell safer and on better footing.



Thats a good point!
If your wires are getting warm, they are too small and will add to the voltage sag you are seeing.
Setting the disconnect at 12/24v would be fine. If you still get nuisance trips, as low as 11.5/23v under a short-term, heavy load is ok. If you know the batteries are in good shape, then even lower for heavy loads may be ok -- that's a question for the battery manufacturer. The best scenario of course, is a disconnect that distinguishes between "heavy" loads and light loads. Some disconnects and inverters can do this I think, but I have no experience with them. Anyway, again, below 12/24v is a disconnect voltage for when there's an occasional high load, but you shouldn't routinely drain down to that level under a light load. Have a great time with your upcoming panels!
 
Sorry- 4 100ah batts. First 2 I bought I connected with 1/0 and the second two I connected (into one large bank) using 1 AWG.

All lengths under 12"

5

Post as sketch or photo of exactly how you connected your batteries. There is a right way (maybe more than one)
that will exactly balance draw on each battery, and there are several wrong ways.

While the load is applied, use a DMM to check voltage drop across each connection (and maybe each wire). That can show a poor contact or a poor crimp. After some time it can be detected as heat, too.
 
I built a 'solar pantry' out of pallet wood for the kitchen-pic attached. Forgive the hackish job, I'm no carpenter.

3-100w solar panels feed 2 enogy rover li mppt's. Only one array connected right now, and the mppt has a circuit breaker (30a) on a 16.5a load from panels.

250a fuse between battery and 2200w inverter (replacing with 250a circuit breaker).

Mppt Battery temp monitor and negative to inverter on one end of bank. One positive cable to inverter on other end of bank.

Constructive feedback (except on my poor cabinet making skills :) much appreciated.


Post as sketch or photo of exactly how you connected your batteries. There is a right way (maybe more than one)
that will exactly balance draw on each battery, and there are several wrong ways.

While the load is applied, use a DMM to check voltage drop across each connection (and maybe each wire). That can show a poor contact or a poor crimp. After some time it can be detected as heat, too.
 

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I think I see two black cables to negative terminal of battery #1 and a fat blue cable to positive terminal of battery #4, so that is diagonal and a decent balance. I had thought you had inverter connected to one battery (or pair) and then tapped off with wires to the additional pair, which would be a poorer balance due to IR drop.

For two batteries, diagonal corners gives perfect balance. For four I think it is less than perfect, can be improved with different connection: Wire two batteries in parallel, then another two in parallel, then connect the two pair in parallel by the diagonal corner of each. Connect diagonal corners of the set of four to inverter. Match each length to its mate on the opposite polarity terminal and to the other pair. (positive and negative to inverter don't need to be matched.)

Where you happen to have a skinny wire in the photo between two pairs, that is OK because it only carries half the current. If you build a perfectly balanced set of four, then all wires ought to be the same gauge as well as same length. With four batteries, looks to me like the four wires in the two pairs each carries 25% or one battery's worth, so match length/gauge. The two wires connecting pairs carries 50%, match those two for length/gauge. The two wires (or individual wire and two parallel in your case) carry 100%, no matching necessary except the two parallel.

Only problem arises is if one of the pair goes open circuit, other carries excessive current. Ideally each of that pair would be appropriately fused, rather than one on the fat wire. Same issue for the pair of red wires To be completely safe, either use single wires or a separate fuse on each of the four smaller wires.

As for cabinet making, you should see the hatchet job I usually do. Spent most of my formative years in the machine shop, never took wood shop. But later I did buy an old table saw and router/table, and used that to make a matching set of cabinets to change an existing kitchen into L-shape. I think it was one day for the first drawer, four more days for two drawer cabinets and two shelf/corner cabinets.

Most of what I'm assembling is rigid or flexible liquid-tight conduit and Square-D boxes. Just ordered another dozen 2" "T" conduit bodies and 20 1" liquid-tight fittings, to expand my inverter and protected/unprotected loads configuration. All of my stuff it outdoors (including Sunny Island, which I converted to 3R enclosure.) Under the deck was most convenient location. I've got 40 linear feet to work with, which is enough to fit 16 of SMA's "Opticool" enclosures with 12" between them. Or a couple less as I also hang breaker panels and balancing transformers.
 
I will have to think about the battery setup BT am glad it passes muster. TY

I think I see two black cables to negative terminal of battery #1 and a fat blue cable to positive terminal of battery #4, so that is diagonal and a decent balance. I had thought you had inverter connected to one battery (or pair) and then tapped off with wires to the additional pair, which would be a poorer balance due to IR drop.

For two batteries, diagonal corners gives perfect balance. For four I think it is less than perfect, can be improved with different connection: Wire two batteries in parallel, then another two in parallel, then connect the two pair in parallel by the diagonal corner of each. Connect diagonal corners of the set of four to inverter. Match each length to its mate on the opposite polarity terminal and to the other pair. (positive and negative to inverter don't need to be matched.)

Where you happen to have a skinny wire in the photo between two pairs, that is OK because it only carries half the current. If you build a perfectly balanced set of four, then all wires ought to be the same gauge as well as same length. With four batteries, looks to me like the four wires in the two pairs each carries 25% or one battery's worth, so match length/gauge. The two wires connecting pairs carries 50%, match those two for length/gauge. The two wires (or individual wire and two parallel in your case) carry 100%, no matching necessary except the two parallel.

Only problem arises is if one of the pair goes open circuit, other carries excessive current. Ideally each of that pair would be appropriately fused, rather than one on the fat wire. Same issue for the pair of red wires To be completely safe, either use single wires or a separate fuse on each of the four smaller wires.

As for cabinet making, you should see the hatchet job I usually do. Spent most of my formative years in the machine shop, never took wood shop. But later I did buy an old table saw and router/table, and used that to make a matching set of cabinets to change an existing kitchen into L-shape. I think it was one day for the first drawer, four more days for two drawer cabinets and two shelf/corner cabinets.

Most of what I'm assembling is rigid or flexible liquid-tight conduit and Square-D boxes. Just ordered another dozen 2" "T" conduit bodies and 20 1" liquid-tight fittings, to expand my inverter and protected/unprotected loads configuration. All of my stuff it outdoors (including Sunny Island, which I converted to 3R enclosure.) Under the deck was most convenient location. I've got 40 linear feet to work with, which is enough to fit 16 of SMA's "Opticool" enclosures with 12" between them. Or a couple less as I also hang breaker panels and balancing transformers.
[/Q
 
A little more advice would be appreciated gang.

The terrifying part: when you're told no-load values of 12+v mean not to worry about what *looks* like deep draw via the inverter.

When roasting tomatoes at 450 my above setup (that was showing high 40 or 50+%, with ten-fifteen seconds dipping to 30s and 40%s) suddenly showed sustained 30 and 40 percent battery.

So I felt the Giandel 2200w cables and they were finally warm...and turned off the toaster oven immediately. When I turned off the load batterey instantly boogies up to 75%+.

I am guessing it's not a battery problem?
But I'm guessing the giandel's included inverter cables need to be replaced?

(Battery cables remained stone cold).

Yes, solar remains a daunting learning experience.
 
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