Bananaman321
⚡solar ididit ⚡
That can be easily remedied with a tandem quad for less than twenty bucks double taps are usually not accepted by code.
80kA whole home surge protector
- Thread starter AntronX
- Start date
Nice, I did not know those type of breakers existed. There is what looks like a tandem quad breaker installed directly above the one I connected to.
DPC
Solar Addict
Well.....
Some breakers you can, they are designed too be able to accommodate two wires.
Not this style of ITE breaker however....
On the one hand I want to be not be involved in this discussion now because I kind of get a knot in my stomach.
I run into this exact style of breaker a lot at work.
I see all kinds of things done by different electricians and most of the time its not the connection on the load side that is the problem.
Its because someone has stuck a Cutler hammer breaker in there or tried to adapt a bolt in.
The skill of the person putting the breaker in and wiring it has a huge influence on how well ti all works out.
I have seen some pretty bad looking shit that was reliable, cool running and safe... and I have seen the right parts and single connection fail because they were just lose...
Bananaman321
⚡solar ididit ⚡
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DPC
Solar Addict
Those run hot.
ricardocello
Watching and Learning
Went to the store, looked at these breakers, bought one to torture 
Stopped by friends house to finish repairing the fridge. Took off breaker panel cover to look at wire temperatures with a Flir. After 15 min at 10A load (pool pump on max) wire temp was 3 degrees over ambient measured right at the terminals. I am not worried. SPD wire is 14ga tinned copper, not aluminum like I thought. No chance of corrosion.
Last pic is new bridge rectifier out of Midea aircon stuffed where burned rectifier was. Had to machine the heatsink to remove guide ridges for this wider rectifier to fit. This one is 25A (350A surge) vs. original 2.7A (120A surge). Also replaced 380V varistor with 140V 10kA GMOV-20D141K. Explains why original MOV did nothing. Its clamping voltage is 1025V at 50A. No idea why they put 380Vac MOV on a board for 120Vac market.
Stopped by friends house to finish repairing the fridge. Took off breaker panel cover to look at wire temperatures with a Flir. After 15 min at 10A load (pool pump on max) wire temp was 3 degrees over ambient measured right at the terminals. I am not worried. SPD wire is 14ga tinned copper, not aluminum like I thought. No chance of corrosion.
Last pic is new bridge rectifier out of Midea aircon stuffed where burned rectifier was. Had to machine the heatsink to remove guide ridges for this wider rectifier to fit. This one is 25A (350A surge) vs. original 2.7A (120A surge). Also replaced 380V varistor with 140V 10kA GMOV-20D141K. Explains why original MOV did nothing. Its clamping voltage is 1025V at 50A. No idea why they put 380Vac MOV on a board for 120Vac market.
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The car that got damaged by lightning strike was Ford F150. The dash lit up with many error messages and it does not start. It was parked 40 feet from light pole that was hit. Nearby neighbors also lost appliances except one house that had... a surge protector.
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DPC
Solar Addict
I used to do something like that with a 300mcm power cable on the line side of a N frame breaker...
Used a 12g stranded wire and the idea was to power some instrumentation.
The inspector approved it although this is not a normal thing...
In retrospect the smart thing should have been run a small ring terminal off the bus on the transformer, then go to some fuses as close as reasonable. ( but that would have put fuses in the HV compartment and not in the distribution compartment,
But the inspector excepted the small wire stuck in there with big breaker, and I did not design the thing so thats what we did...
I do not condone or condemn what you have decided to do.
But is that the best thing you can thing of?
Wire nuts are made for more than one wire.
Why not use a handy box and make that connection outside the CB panel.
Then if you needed to disconnect this later you only have to turn off the breaker and open the handy box to work on it...
Used a 12g stranded wire and the idea was to power some instrumentation.
The inspector approved it although this is not a normal thing...
In retrospect the smart thing should have been run a small ring terminal off the bus on the transformer, then go to some fuses as close as reasonable. ( but that would have put fuses in the HV compartment and not in the distribution compartment,
But the inspector excepted the small wire stuck in there with big breaker, and I did not design the thing so thats what we did...
I do not condone or condemn what you have decided to do.
But is that the best thing you can thing of?
Wire nuts are made for more than one wire.
Why not use a handy box and make that connection outside the CB panel.
Then if you needed to disconnect this later you only have to turn off the breaker and open the handy box to work on it...
Bananaman321
⚡solar ididit ⚡
First off that is bad practice that terminal is designed for solid wire I recommend pick Taylor another solid wire in with those 2 wires putting a wire nut on it and then stuffing it in the breaker log.
By the way these are proper wire pliers.
I guess so. I wanted to avoid adding additional hardware if I did not have to. This solution looks neat on the outside and does not require extra components. Chances are that surge protector will outlast the house. If it needs replacement then cutoff the wires and use wire nuts to attach replacement SPD without touching the breaker.
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DPC
Solar Addict
The QB and QP breakers are rated for stranded wire.
I know I do it all the time...
I almost exclusively use teck 90 with these breakers.
Bananaman321
⚡solar ididit ⚡
DPC
Solar Addict
Well that is possibly code now some places...
DPC
Solar Addict
Yes breakers are slow
But sone fuses can also be slow
Both work on an inverse time delay curve
Be careful what you wish for
We already have expensive arc fault and gfci breakers
This is a typical curve time vs current trip rates
Bananaman321
⚡solar ididit ⚡
I believe that by design for starting inductive loads I've seen a pool pump motor on a 120 Volt circuit draw 40 amps for a 2 seconds to get going on an analog meter. Was a 20 amp breaker.
DPC
Solar Addict
wrap your head around this
I’m trained yo do this job, but we have p&c guys do it because my dept doesn’t have the equipment or man power to calibrate and co ordinate all our breakers
This is why those curves I posted in a previous thread are important
Modern computerized relays do this now
It’s simply a matter of entering the right parameters
Honestly I have never done much with the newer units because I don’t give a shit anymore and we have all kinds of young punks who think they are smarter than me anyways lol
I do love this electro mechanical stuff however
Here is what this wire looks like removed from the terminal. Wire is 14" long measured 33mV drop at 27A. This is 1.2mOhm resistance or 1.4 ohm/1Kft really close to data sheet value of 1.11 ohm/1Kft for 10awg 37/26 stranded. So we can say that 80% of wire strands were making contact inside breaker terminal.
top view
side view (screw indentation visible)
bottom view
top view
side view (screw indentation visible)
bottom view
Bananaman321
⚡solar ididit ⚡
That's pretty cool you got me thinking of how a MPPT tracker works to get the most current out of a solar panel by adjusting the the amp load up and down to find the peak watt output.
BTW screwed them young punks, those who know it all have nothing to learn they are the ignorant ones.
I learn new things every day I try to remain open minded to new ideas and share with others that thirst for good old-school cleaver knowledge. 
Keep sharing my friend.
DPC
Solar Addict
I try to read something everday
I joined this forum to learn more about solar
And boy have I learned stuff
I joined this forum to learn more about solar
And boy have I learned stuff
Bananaman321
⚡solar ididit ⚡
I'm not knocking your workmanship or methods but that is bad practice and when DIY-ing electrical we should try not to draw attention to ourselves as this throws up a red flag especially in an electrical panel.
I've had to correct this very same thing 3 times this past year because it was flagged by the insurance company during a home inspection. FL
Referring to the double tap..
Bananaman321
⚡solar ididit ⚡
You don't have to sell your house to get a home inspection just switching insurers will result in this.
The quadplex breaker I posted above is the correct way of doing it and keep your leads a short and straight as possible.
Nothing wrong with wire nuts i've been using for years if they're in damp locations squirt some no ox inside of the wire nut coat the conductors with it and always make sure they're pointed upward towards the sky so they don't feel with moisture and rust out.
They are better than wagos as far as I'm concerned.
