A-grade 304 Eve cells - fake, or real? What to expect?

[Alkaline]

Here is an example of real qr code:

New Docan 230Ah EVE Cells

Sorry you feel this way, but I suspect many others feel the same, I'm just disappointed at how effectively the Chinese sellers have spread misinformation to the point the average joe has no idea what is what. ? Ok, I'm always anxious to learn more. So if you know what the Chinese sellers are...

diysolarforum.com

notice no difference in qr code background or to the edges, also if you look close the QR code looks like it was done with some type of DOT matrix style laser engraver, its not straight.

 

[wfdTamar]

Ok, I tried reasoning with the seller and asked for cell test reports and explanations of the octagonal terminal bases. I explained that it is likely their supplier pulling a fast one - that I didn't blame them, but I wanted some proof. He turned nasty pretty much straight away and did the 'I know what I'm selling, take my word for it' routine. This is a seller that mainly sells beads and other trinkets, reasonable 96% feedback over a few years. Just to warn others in Australia the seller is goodstuffhere*au in Rockhampton, Queensland.

I reported it to ebay as a counterfeit item and that they had loads more to sell (20 lots of 4 cells). That perked their interest up a lot more as initially they thought it was just the ones I had bought. Really annoying as I wanted to get into building it. I may have been ok with these cells if they had been honest and cooperative with some cash adjustment.

 

[Crowz]

Ok, I tried reasoning with the seller and asked for cell test reports and explanations of the octagonal terminal bases. I explained that it is likely their supplier pulling a fast one - that I didn't blame them, but I wanted some proof. He turned nasty pretty much straight away and did the 'I know what I'm selling, take my word for it' routine. This is a seller that mainly sells beads and other trinkets, reasonable 96% feedback over a few years. Just to warn others in Australia the seller is goodstuffhere*au in Rockhampton, Queensland.

I reported it to ebay as a counterfeit item and that they had loads more to sell (20 lots of 4 cells). That perked their interest up a lot more as initially they thought it was just the ones I had bought. Really annoying as I wanted to get into building it. I may have been ok with these cells if they had been honest and cooperative with some cash adjustment.

They still may reach out to you since you informed ebay about it.

 

[Alkaline]

Ok, I tried reasoning with the seller and asked for cell test reports and explanations of the octagonal terminal bases. I explained that it is likely their supplier pulling a fast one - that I didn't blame them, but I wanted some proof. He turned nasty pretty much straight away and did the 'I know what I'm selling, take my word for it' routine. This is a seller that mainly sells beads and other trinkets, reasonable 96% feedback over a few years. Just to warn others in Australia the seller is goodstuffhere*au in Rockhampton, Queensland.

I reported it to ebay as a counterfeit item and that they had loads more to sell (20 lots of 4 cells). That perked their interest up a lot more as initially they thought it was just the ones I had bought. Really annoying as I wanted to get into building it. I may have been ok with these cells if they had been honest and cooperative with some cash adjustment.

if there are 100 people selling cells, 5% are selling legit 95% are selling fraud. Its because you have to buy in such large quantity to get the price down low enough for real grade A that 95% of the potential sellers simply don't have the capital.

You still have not cleaned up the QR code, you need to do it, I'll add your thread to my cuationary list. While it may not do much 1 out of 10 people buying ebay/amazon/ali may stumble across the thread and not get scammed.

Once you clean the qr code area and up to the edges of the cell you'll clearly see if its been sanded or not.

 

[wfdTamar]

I’ve put the top label back in place I’m not sure I want to disturb it in case it’s grounds for reducing the refund. I’ll have a look and see if it (or another cell) come up ok again.

 

[wfdTamar]

Wondering, as I want the option to be able to run high power 240 volt appliances (3000 watt inverter), wether going for a 12 volt 8 cell setup might not be more sensible so as to lower the load on each cell as the quality of the cells (particularly at high Amp draw) is questionable?

 

[Sam Cho TX]

Is this confirmed that the new LF304 does not have hexagon terminals and is still round?
If it is then clearly these 304 are phony.

 

[wfdTamar]

Hexagon is 6. Octagon is 8. They’re octagon!

Alkaline has said in discussion with Eve that the only cells with octagons currently sold are 280K v. 3 (a cell that can actually be as high as 304) and that the new version of 304 will have octagons, but they are not on the market yet.

The cells I bought according to the (suspect) QR codes were manufactured in May/June ‘23. Am I the first person to have bought the new Eve 304 v.3 with octagonal terminals for A1079 (US$692))?

You’d think if that were the case the seller would be willing to prove it.

All signs are they are 280K v.3 (octagons, even a K in marker under the label, but I’m not sure if that’s what the marker means). Seller assures me they will test at 304Ah, so maybe good Grade B 280k? Which may not be a bad buy at that price, but I can’t abide the deception.

 

[Alkaline]

304 will be replaced by a new cell called 306K, this will have the octagons, LF304 has no plans on going octagon.

The LF306K will be rated for the 6000 cycles , current LF304 is rated for 3500 cycles.

K = long cycle life.

 

[wfdTamar]

Tested one cell with an EBC-A20 tester. Charged, then discharged. 308.5Ah, so if they're all like that, decent capacity. Frustrating - if the seller had correctly labelled and titled the sale, they'd still be an ok buy at that price.

 

[Alkaline]

Yes the 280K V3 is kick butt cell, You can see it can easily pass for a 304 and most will never question it.

 

[augiedoggy]

Yes the 280K V3 is kick butt cell, You can see it can easily pass for a 304 and most will never question it.

Curious/ whats the weight difference between a legit 304 cell and a 280? do you know?

 

[wfdTamar]

From Evemall site -
5490 grams ±300g
5450 grams ±164g

So can't use that to tell.

 

[wfdTamar]

Oh BTW, for Australian buyers that seller has two usernames on ebay selling these cells:
goodstuffhere*au
richonline1249

You can decide for yourselves if what he's selling is legitimate based on discussion here. I certainly wouldn't say they're bad cells, but they're not what is stated.

Even though there is no official standard for the term, 'Grade-A' implies the best, possibly only exceeded by 'certified automotive' or 'certified storage' (I've seen mention of both these). Grade-B are definitely those that have not met those two standards, but still may be ok for some uses. There is greater risk of getting a lower capacity or even dud cell with Grade-B - therefore the prices are lower. Some of these would be the ones being rebadged as 'Grade-A' which should be considered counterfeit.

What is really frustrating is there seems no way of trusting anything any seller states. Even those in your own country from seemingly legitimate companies. It just might be easier to get a refund if they are local.

 

[Supermo26]

All this makes it difficult to want to purchase cells.

 

[Alkaline]

Its not difficult really, if you are sanding off the original QR code and putting a different qr code, well that is fraud. I'm sure if wfdtamar decides to clean off that cell completely he will see sanding marks, but I understand capacity wise they are meeting his expectations so he is fine with the cells.

 

[Alkaline]

What is really frustrating is there seems no way of trusting anything any seller states. Even those in your own country from seemingly legitimate companies. It just might be easier to get a refund if they are local.

Demand a test report like this: https://ezealco.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/LF304-Testing-Report-3.xlsx

All grade A Legit Sellers Have them

 

[Crowz]

They need to start embedding rfid chips in the cells to stop all of the faking

 

[wfdTamar]

Yes tried all that last week, but the seller immediately turned super defensive, then nasty. I've already arranged to return and refund them with ebay and their counterfeit products team have been made aware of the seller.

 

[wfdTamar]

I'm sure if the manufacturers wanted they could stop this BS, but they want to get rid of the cells that have failed the tests. They just see us as rich mug punters that deserve to be taken for a ride.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

I'm sure if the manufacturers wanted they could stop this BS, but they want to get rid of the cells that have failed the tests. They just see us as rich mug punters that deserve to be taken for a ride.

Manufacturers don't care because this isn't their business. They're making cells for EV manufacturers. It's the gray market resellers that are to blame.

 

[Alkaline]

I'm sure if the manufacturers wanted they could stop this BS, but they want to get rid of the cells that have failed the tests. They just see us as rich mug punters that deserve to be taken for a ride.

EVE's official stance is that they recycle failed cells and we all know this is a lie, but so do other manufacture's, they lie too. The re-sellers are just following the manufacture's trend.

There is a place or grade B but no seller wants to be there, everyone wants to be called grade A. In the real world the grade B is a viable option for many as long as they know what they are buying.

Sadly this wont change the fact that 99% of alibaba/amazon/ebay is grade B masquerading as grade A. That is the only way small sellers can make money. You have to buy container loads (we are talking 6000+ cells) like ezeal, or 18650 to get the price down for legit grade A cells in order to sell them for a reasonable price.

That or you have to offer direct from China shipping with test reports like sfk or luyuan.

 

[wfdTamar]

So where to now (as I shipped back those cells today)? I see a thread about EEL and I was just about to ask on that one which of their cells would be recommended.

 

[Quattrohead]

I think you might have to go buy those batteries back, they sound as good as anything else.
If these sellers would just say that they are manufacturers rejects from their primary intended purpose but perfectly fine for energy storage systems but with possibly greater deviation from the specs, no one here would have an issue with that.

 

[wfdTamar]

If they’d been honestly labellled in the eBay sale at that price or a little less I might have been ok with them.

Funny thing is I sent them back today - purely coincidentally received an offer possibly an automated thing) from the sellers other eBay account of a reduced price on the same deal! It was one of those BS $20-30 ones, but imagine if I’d taken it up!?