A strange new off-grid mystery involving LED bulbs...

[Bowlegs868]

I have a few of those rechargeable LED bulbs and something strange started happening recently...

Details:
My home is off-grid and is usually powered via the inverter's AC output going into the main breaker panel... right now the inverter isn't connected to the panel but devices are connected directly to it

Strange thing #1:
As of recently, more than one bulb cannot be on at one time so when I flip the switch in another room, the bulb that was on, turns off

Strange thing #2:
I plugged a fan in on the inverter and when I turned it on, the LED bulb turned off... there is no connection linking the inverter to the breaker panel that the bulbs/wall sockets are on

Can anyone explain what the heck is going on???

 

[Bud Martin]

I have a few of those rechargeable LED bulbs and something strange started happening recently...

Details:
My home is off-grid and is usually powered via the inverter's AC output going into the main breaker panel... right now the inverter isn't connected to the panel but devices are connected directly to it

Strange thing #1:
As of recently, more than one bulb cannot be on at one time so when I flip the switch in another room, the bulb that was on, turns off

Strange thing #2:
I plugged a fan in on the inverter and when I turned it on, the LED bulb turned off... there is no connection linking the inverter to the breaker panel that the bulbs/wall sockets are on

Can anyone explain what the heck is going on???

Can you show us the setup as it is right now, especially the AC output of the inverter which is not connected to the panel any more?
For the LED bulb which is connected to the panel circuit to come on, the panel is getting power from some where.
So there is no utility power to the house at all, correct?

 

[Rednecktek]

I plugged a fan in on the inverter and when I turned it on, the LED bulb turned off... there is no connection linking the inverter to the breaker panel that the bulbs/wall sockets are on

The only way I can think of that the bulb is getting power at the socket but the inverter is NOT CONNECTED to the breaker panel is that you have a N-G bond and there is some power from the Ground line back feeding the Neutral line and giving the bulb a small charge.

I know it sounds weird but I've seen it first hand here on the ship where we've had nasty grounds and people's bunk lights would still glow after being turned off. Once I disconnected the grounding circuits everyone's lights stopped glowing.

No clue about Strange Thing #1... that's truly... strange...

 

[A.Justice]

Do the bulbs have Wi-Fi or Bluetooth?

 

[Shimmy]

The only way I can think of that the bulb is getting power at the socket but the inverter is NOT CONNECTED to the breaker panel is that you have a N-G bond and there is some power from the Ground line back feeding the Neutral line and giving the bulb a small charge.

I know it sounds weird but I've seen it first hand here on the ship where we've had nasty grounds and people's bunk lights would still glow after being turned off. Once I disconnected the grounding circuits everyone's lights stopped glowing.

No clue about Strange Thing #1... that's truly... strange...

I would say you are spot on with #2... and #1 is just a result of there not being enough voltage to support two lights.

 

[Rednecktek]

I would say you are spot on with #2... and #1 is just a result of there not being enough voltage to support two lights.

Which would be weird as the fan is going to draw way more power than some LED's and it ran fine, right?

 

[Bowlegs868]

Can you show us the setup as it is right now, especially the AC output of the inverter which is not connected to the panel any more?
For the LED bulb which is connected to the panel circuit to come on, the panel is getting power from some where.
So there is no utility power to the house at all, correct?

I'm at work at the moment but I'll try to find some pictures I can send...
I have two inverters... the one I use to power the home and one that I got recently to use on a 12V battery.
Neither one is connected to the main breaker panel and there isn't any utility power.

So I have my typical setup with solar panels into SCC into battery and out to the second inverter which is fed by the 12V battery. The only connection to the breaker panel would usually be the AC plug that feeds it from the main inverter which is turned off and disconnected from both the battery and the mains... so the AC plug isn't connected

 

[Bowlegs868]

you have a N-G bond and there is some power from the Ground line back feeding the Neutral line

I'm going to give this another look because I did discover a N-G issue recently (fingers crossed)

 

[Bowlegs868]

Do the bulbs have Wi-Fi or Bluetooth?

Nope, just regular rechargeable LED bulbs

 

[Bowlegs868]

I would say you are spot on with #2... and #1 is just a result of there not being enough voltage to support two lights.

The thing about that is, since there is no power on the mains, the LED bulbs are running on their own built-in battery power

 

[Bowlegs868]

Which would be weird as the fan is going to draw way more power than some LED's and it ran fine, right?

The fan is drawing it's power from the battery... the LED bulbs don't have a source of power since the inverter isn't connected to the panel but they have built-in batteries... that's what's so strange about all of this!

 

[Rednecktek]

Nope, just regular rechargeable LED bulbs

Aaahhh... missed that somehow earlier. Yup, I think the N-G leak is going to be your issue all the way around.

 

[Bowlegs868]

Aaahhh... missed that somehow earlier. Yup, I think the N-G leak is going to be your issue all the way around.

ground as a thing is starting to become very annoying

 

[Rednecktek]

ground as a thing is starting to become very annoying

Starting?? Try working on ships where ANY ground is a Bad Thing!

 

[Bud Martin]

I'm at work at the moment but I'll try to find some pictures I can send...
I have two inverters... the one I use to power the home and one that I got recently to use on a 12V battery.
Neither one is connected to the main breaker panel and there isn't any utility power.

So I have my typical setup with solar panels into SCC into battery and out to the second inverter which is fed by the 12V battery. The only connection to the breaker panel would usually be the AC plug that feeds it from the main inverter which is turned off and disconnected from both the battery and the mains... so the AC plug isn't connected

If the AC outputs of BOTH inverters are NOT connected to the panel, then grounding issue is not going to cause what you are seeing with your LED bulbs since there is no any AC power source or any wires from AC output of the inverter to the panel, all you have is the AC panel with nothing feeding it.
So now you are saying your LED bulbs has built-in back battery back up?

 

[Bowlegs868]

If the AC outputs of BOTH inverters are NOT connected to the panel, then grounding issue is not going to cause what you are seeing with your LED bulbs since there is no any AC power source or any wires from AC output of the inverter to the panel, all you have is the AC panel with nothing feeding it.
So now you are saying your LED bulbs has built-in back battery back up?

that's correct... when there's power and the circuit is closed (switch is on), the bulbs will be on and charging... when there's no power and you close the circuit / turn the light on, they would run off their battery

 

[Bowlegs868]

I think I've figured out what the issue is...
I've forgot about the N-E bond I discovered recently where in the sub panel that goes before the main panel, has a flaw where the neutral busbar and ground lug was causing my multimeter to beep when I checked for continuity... so that's where the link is and that would explain how turning on another bulb would kick the other one off... now I have to find out how the fan scenario is tied into this

 

[Bud Martin]

I think I've figured out what the issue is...
I've forgot about the N-E bond I discovered recently where in the sub panel that goes before the main panel, has a flaw where the neutral busbar and ground lug was causing my multimeter to beep when I checked for continuity... so that's where the link is and that would explain how turning on another bulb would kick the other one off... now I have to find out how the fan scenario is tied into this

So if that is the case, did it fix the issue of the LED bulbs (with battery back up)when you make the correction? I would fix one issue at at time.
BTW, those LED bulb I have seen with built-in battery will come on when utility is not present and stay on as long as no utility (just like UPS), the only way to turn it off is to use the switch that is built-in to the bulb not the wall switch, the wall switch should not do anything since there is no utility present to feed the LED Bulb with the utility power.

'Strange thing #2:
I plugged a fan in on the inverter and when I turned it on, the LED bulb turned off... there is no connection linking the inverter to the breaker panel that the bulbs/wall sockets are on.
This #2 makes no sense at all.

 

[Bowlegs868]

So if that is the case, did it fix the issue of the LED bulbs (with battery back up)when you make the correction?

It appears that the bond is in the main breaker panel... seems as though it was meant to be that way because I disconnected all the grounding conductors and tested them individually... turns out it's the actual casing of the panel that is N-E bonded

those LED bulb I have seen with built-in battery will come on when utility is not present and stay on as long as no utility (just like UPS), the only way to turn it off is to use the switch that is built-in to the bulb not the wall switch, the wall switch should not do anything since there is no utility present to feed the LED Bulb with the utility power.

These are a different design... there's no switch on them