A third the volume half the weight and almost the same power - Elaborate hoax or quantum leap forward in LIFEPO4 ?

Aussiecroc

Solar Enthusiast
I DON'T have the answer but I'm asking those who do have these new beaut blue cells.

We all know how ebeey and Al -i and other places love to add 50 percent or double the value of panels, batteries and say things are mppt when they are not yada yada. We measure panels truthfully by looking at the size in relation to a very decent brand like sharp etc. People here read the weight of the AGM to see if it really is the power rating that they claim.

All over this forum are the lovely blue cells. The price and the power looks great. But even when paying these cheap prices we want to know that they are going to last. Dozens of guys here (Australia) in Rvs have had their winston cells here going well for 7 years so far. Most have no loss in capacity yet. So I am going to compare the weight and size of Winstons against the Blueys. (if you own these lovely blueys please don't get upset - I have come to no conclusions - Im just asking right now)

200 amp/hour winston cell

Specs taken from here https://www.ev-power.eu/Winston-40Ah-200Ah/WB-LYP300AHA-LiFeYPO4-3-2V-300Ah.html

Weight : 10 Kg
Size : 306mm X 55mm X 363mm = 6.1 million cubic mm volume

190 amp/hour bluey cell

Specs taken from here https://www.aliexpress.com/item/330...&terminal_id=f75f4908058e44a68c6bcbf5ee688846

Weight: 4kg
Size: 174mm X 54mm X 207mm = I.94 million cubic mm volume

So the new blueys are less than half the weight and less than a third of the volume of a reasonable battery that is only 10 amp/ hours bigger.

1. When did this quantum discovery of all this power for half the weight and a third of the volume happen/ Who did it? When and how?
2. Has anybody tested the capacity of their 190 ah blue battery? Id love to know what you found!
3. Did the battery stay cool during your discharge test?

The winstons can be dicharged at 3C (many do this here) and the blueys at 1C so there is a BIG difference if you are going to run hungry appliances like big inverters. This difference is similar to the volume difference.

I'm not like some people who say - "Oh it will all be outdated in 5 years what does it matter?" Many of the things I own are 15 to 40 years old even with electrical stuff. I'd rather pay double for something to last three or four times as long. Determining that is not easy at times. I guess we won't know for some time how the blueys will fair. It's not easy to tell. I can get heavy AGMS now for very little and some even free. If I am going to spend $2000K on new light batteries that I treat well then Id like them to get at least 12 years plus. It's a gamble for sure.

I have no clue about the new blueys but I want to believe they are awesome. Any light that anybody could shed on the above anomaly would be appreciated. Any info you can tell us about your new beaut blueys would be appreciated.
 

Steve_S

Offgrid Cabineer, N.E. Ontario, Canada
Well, like you said, anyone can post whatever they want in their ads and caveat emptor always applies regardless. Best to be a smart shopper than a reckless "consumer ". Due diligence in your research always pays back (after the headache subsides of course).
Check the source manufacturer, if possible.
Buy from "Known Good" vendors that are established and have been in business at least 5 years.
Locate Known Good Companies (manufacturers) and follow their links to suggested "authorized" resellers / suppliers / vendors. Doesn't matter what site they sell on if Ebay or Aliexpress or ? IF they are genuinely authorized by X Company to sell their product.

Amazon Prime or other verified methods are usually safer & better and stand behind for support BUT this is something you have to investigate and be comfortable for yourself. Some folks swear by it and never had issues while others have had some issues... no one is perfect and sometimes shit does just happen too.

A personal note. I myself prefer to buy local, then regional, then national first, after which I will look 'outside' mainly because if I buy a "High Value" item I want to be able to get support, service, replacement and find a body if it needs a beating LOL..... That peace of mind factor (especially when living rural-remote & offgrid) is ever important. Stuff always fails when it is 40C in summer or -35C in winter, never when it's nice and no hassle results from a failure of something. You know, "Murphy's Laws" being applied.
 

Woggs1

Solar Enthusiast
On Will's website he links to some blueys on Aliexpress. (https://www.mobile-solarpower.com/diy-lifepo4-solar-battery.html) I don't remember him doing a video on Blueys capacity, but maybe I missed it.

 

Aussiecroc

Solar Enthusiast
Thanks Woggs and Solar Rat - I had not seen this video. Awesome! Answers quite a bit.
Thanks so much Keith they do seem to do very well for the size and weight. Much smaller for my motorhome. What balancer are you using ? and what is the blue box on the top left? thanks in advance
 

Keith_PDX

Solar Enthusiast
I am using the Deligreen active balancer, it does very well. The top left is the Victron 120v charger. The other is the Victron Battery protect and MPPT. Theres a BMV-712 shunt in there too. Its under the dinette seat in my van. Tight space but works.
 

Aussiecroc

Solar Enthusiast
Thats great info Keith and an awesome set up - you chose good components. I think these blue batteries will be more suited to low loads. (ie not 2500 inverters) Im putting a box like yours Keith in my motohome. Two fridges drawing about 3 amps each (12 volts) and a HF radio that can draw up to 16 amps on transmit at times. Thanks for all the info.
 

Keith_PDX

Solar Enthusiast
I ran my Magnum Dimensions 2000w inverter at full load for two hours off of this pack to stress test it and measure temperature on my connectors, crimps and wires. Batteries didn't raise more than 8F degrees. That's 130ish amps. I think you're under estimating them.
 

Aussiecroc

Solar Enthusiast
I think I'm ready to buy them! Thanks mainly to you and a few others!
Keith -did you use the Victron BMV -712 to do the high capacity cut out? Do you wire a relay that the BMV cuts off when it reaches full voltage or capacity? If not can you tell us what monitors the high end cut off. And how does it come back on? Thanks so much for your picture and explanations. I think you have a high quality set up. I have emailed Jason at BLS.
 
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Keith_PDX

Solar Enthusiast
Yes, I use the relay contacts on the BMV to disable charging from all sources at low temperature, under voltage, over voltage and midpoint voltage deviation.
 

Aussiecroc

Solar Enthusiast
Man thats good!

I was looking at SSR's (solid state relays) today - high quality ones.
• Control Voltage: 4-32VDC
• Control Current: 28mA max.
You only need a small current to activate up to 30 volts at a 100 amps.
 

Aussiecroc

Solar Enthusiast
Im not sure what is the reason but 4 times 190 ah blueys just jumped from $879 to $931 Australian overnight pus about $87 freight.
too many people on here buying them lol. I sent Jason (from BLS)a letter telling him that our forum are watching his price movements in comparison to other brands and makers. ( I did not give the name of this forum) The closer the price gets to Sinopolys the more I might jump in that direction. Even these are looking more competitive with no delivery fee for me.

 
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Steve_S

Offgrid Cabineer, N.E. Ontario, Canada
One factor "maybe" is that today is the 12th. In China 11/11 is "Singles Day" which is sort of like a Black Friday kind of deal, with everyone having huge sales and all sorts of bargains. Apparently, this may have been the last year for "Singles Day" as well.

 

FilterGuy

What, me worry?
The winston cells are LiFeYPO4 (A different chemistry). Supposedly it improves the temperature performance of the cells. From their website:

"Winston incorporate Yttrium to enhance the cell temperature flexibility as well as performance overall. "

I have an email out to them asking for more details on their cold temperature limits for Discharge, Charge and Storage. I'll post it here if I get any response.
 
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