diy solar

diy solar

A19 Edison screw base

Majkhands

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Apr 5, 2021
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Living off grid in the city, is living large(I hope).
Today I had the utility company literally cut the power. Turns out they have been over billing for years.
I have moved my previous system across country to enjoy off grid in the city.
Today's adventure.
I would like to hook the panels directly to the severed utility lines, but I just realized they are two 110v AC hots.
My reason for the post is the panels put out 39vdc and I would like to use the existing wiring to run the circuits as I need them with inverters and converters for the appropriate application.
First lighting is a priority. I have a successful food forest that reduces the temperature inside the property as well as the house, but it is a bit dark during the day.
I have an old Harbor freight system that came with the 12vdc lights. As I look on line they may be rated to 24vdv. My concern is my panels put our 39vdc. Are they compatible or will I fry them?
 
Are they compatible or will I fry them?
Compatible with what?

PV panels typically are connected to a solar charge controller.
The solar charge controller outputs charge voltage for your dc system core.
The dc system core is typically 12, 24 or 48 volts.
The dc system core typically powers an dc2ac inverter which ouputs 120 or 120/240VAC.
The inverter output is connected to your ac distribution panel to power the ac circuits in your house.
The inverter could be connected to the lines that the utility cut.

Hope I got the right level of detail for you.
What is a "food forest"?
 
Thank you Joey. You are dead on right. I was attempting to direct connect with or without battery backup. I considered using one of the main 50amp house circuits as the connection for the charge controller to the batteries. Certainly not a conventional configuration.
This is a low consumption home. Limited high wattage uses. Only what a simple system can support.


My pressing need was light interior. I wanted to replace the incandescents directly with the A-19 Edison bulbs.

The property is completely surrounded with aquaponics with food plants, trees, berries, mushrooms and herbs planted in the four zones canopy, understory, ground cover and subterranean. A high intensity sustainable system. Completely off grid pumps and supplemental lighting.

Thank you for all of your insights.
 
Thank you Joey. You are dead on right. I was attempting to direct connect with or without battery backup. I considered using one of the main 50amp house circuits as the connection for the charge controller to the batteries. Certainly not a conventional configuration.
This is a low consumption home. Limited high wattage uses. Only what a simple system can support.


My pressing need was light interior. I wanted to replace the incandescents directly with the A-19 Edison bulbs.

The property is completely surrounded with aquaponics with food plants, trees, berries, mushrooms and herbs planted in the four zones canopy, understory, ground cover and subterranean. A high intensity sustainable system. Completely off grid pumps and supplemental lighting.

Thank you for all of your insights.
A normal house expects 120/240 volt split phase alternating current.
You panels will produce a variable amount of direct current at a variable voltage.
What are the voltage and amperage requirements for your "A-19 Edison bulbs"?
 
I wanted to replace the incandescents directly with the A-19 Edison bulbs.
A19 aka Edison aka “E” or “E26” bulb is a screw/base design nomenclature that’s showing up in the US a lot more lately but started showing up on cheap Chinese light fixture boxes. The designation indicates base and glass diameter and is specific to whatever world region one is in. Used to be called Medium base or Medium Edison Size in some commercial circles.

Nobody here knew what E19 bulbs to buy when they read the 12-language nano-pica instruction sheets.

So what are you referring to? 120VAC bulbs or 12VDC? Incandescent? LED?

For fun and entertainment I have on hand some 12VDC “A” incandescent bulbs leftover from the late cambrian period when I had a gorgeous 1957ish Forester with gas lamps and some 12V lighting fixtures. These are “A19” 12VDC 50W bulbs that will screw into a 120VAC fixture because they are medium base bulbs (but they wouldn’t last very long Lol)

So are you trying to run 120VAC into your panel or distribute DC through your panel?

Either way DON’T connect to the service wiring! Not meant for DC on one hand, and connecting inverter 120VAC inside the panel following NEC for safety is a best practice on the other.

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I have no idea what the bulb is, other than 12vdc. There are no markings. When I look online it appears they are 12/24 but that is an assumption, they are identical. The only fact is they came with the 100w Harbor Frieght system.

The main service wire is aluminum, not a favorite. I will be replaced as well as the 110vac box and breakers. Thank you Tim they are AC breakers not DC. I do not understand why the box cannot handle DC. I do understand there is a difference.

I am familiar with conventional US systems. My world is different. I desire but do not require 110ac for couple of appliances on hand. I am converting everything to low voltage solar supplied.
Primarily 12vdc. I have gas a gas range, propane refrigerator and may add a propane freezer. I have a large screen TV I use seldom. Lighting, I want to run strictly low voltage LED. My aquaponics pumps are 12vdc under .1 Amp.

I enjoyed conventional US living with all the trappings. It no longer holds the same appeal. I want to explore the alternatives. This is my early retirement project. 7 years to date.

Thank you for all of the sharing.


.
 
Thank you Tim they are AC breakers not DC. I do not understand why the box cannot handle DC.
AC current crosses 0 volts every 60th of a second.
This makes it much easier for a breaker to extinguish the arc across the breaker contacts.
With DC the arc must be extinguised at the rated voltage which is much more difficult.
 
When I look online it appears they are 12/24 but that is an assumption, they are identical.
Those are LED bulbs then with A19 configuration I’d guess?
Don’t get dependent on them. There’s much better 12V lighting options available that probably cost less.
may add a propane freezer.
better solar / more panels and a walmartha or homeDepot 120V freezer from an inverter probably will cost the same or less as a propane freezer to buy- and then it wants to be bottle fed.
Today I had the utility company literally cut the power. Turns out they have been over billing for years.
I have moved my previous system across country to enjoy off grid in the city.
What was so wrong with your existing service that they condemned it?

I want to run strictly low voltage LED. My aquaponics
Most 12V LED doesn’t really have the light energy and color mix for plant lights. That’s another case to have an inverter.

Don’t get me wrong- I’m not trying to discourage you. I’m a low-voltage fan! Some things, though, have economic scale from manufacturing and the market conditions (refrigeration, some lights, etc) that just make spending “more” cost one less money for more benefit- and solar is (on the years-scale) a one-time purchase and then it just works. No propane to buy.
 
Excellent points.
So under full disclosure, my gas is hydrogen produced as needed. I understand the explosive range with the oxygen mix. That answer seemed outside of this discussion.

I agree the light mix is not correct, generally for plants. The cannabis market has improved that deficiency greatly. I sm using it for the plants as supplemental day length lighting. I am happy with the results to date.

I have 4 of the cheap chest freezers I am using as dry storage until I upgrade the system. I have a 4k/8k 12vdc inverter, but I expect it will need substantially more battery support.

Currently, I am running 3 - 270w 24vdc 15amp panels. I will expand the system because I am addicted to silent, Green sustainable onsite power generation. It requires more hands on and some upfront investment but expansion and the rewards are Christmas everyday.

The utility did not reject me quite the contrary. My home was vacant for 3 years and the bill fluctuated as it did when it was occupied. I knew they were not reading the meter but fudging the bill. I caught them at it and the state made up excuses for them. Wild assumptions and explanations. So I told them to cut the cord, as I have with water and sewer. They are all simple systems to manage. I have for 7 years with no ill effects.
Electricity was my final cord to cut.
I produce my own food for the most part.
I have a significant rain water collection in my aquaponics for my water needs. My trees enjoy the urine and the solids are composted. I may flash incinerate with a frenesel lens soon. 3,000 degrees is very effective.
I have to say my out going expenses are minimal at this point, a great way to enjoy retirement.
 
under full disclosure, my gas is hydrogen produced as needed
Okay so that’s intriguing. I’m assuming you’re burning hydrogen not decompressing liquid hydrogen?

I guess either way wouldn’t surprise me - you definitely are doing some unusually different things.
 
Yes I am cracking alkalized water for hydrogen and that great o2 high breathing increased levels. Works great for her glass works too.
I think I spend too much time on utube.
 
If you are using Harbor Freight solar shit, you are not doing much of anything.
 
First lighting is a priority. I have a successful food forest that reduces the temperature inside the property as well as the house, but it is a bit dark during the day.
My pressing need was light interior. I wanted to replace the incandescents directly with the A-19 Edison bulbs.
Surprisingly to me 12V A19s are still readily available and as LEDs!
The ‘problem’ with using home wiring meant for 120VAC is the resistance. Low voltage doesn’t travel well over solid conductors nor over longer distances. Depending on the light or device, a long distance might be, say, 20 feet.

Personally I’d not use the homewire to distribute 12VDC. I’d add some runs of paired stranded and use something like 12V recessed lights for convenience/movement lighting and perhaps these surface lights for bathroom or kitchen table use. (Although I’d locate some with a rocker switch not a slider as a rocker switch will give you a much longer service life imho)

Then you can use the existing 120VAC panel to distribute power from an efficient low-priced pure-sine inverter for its occasional convenience and to run something like this for the plants.

Four of these or lesser expensive ones locally obtained will give you quite a bit of power- one battery as a charge controller cloud buffer isn’t enough for extended power but it will give you a great sunlight powered energy source and limited nighttime use.

800W of power will probably give you enough for four growlights.

That’s what I would do.
 
12voltinstalls thank you. That is the information I needed. Solid vs multistrand (110 vs 12v). I had hoped to use what was already installed.
Pointing out a long run for resistance could be 20 feet put it all in perspective. I doubt there is a single circuit that short.
Time to create new runs.

As to the harbor freight comment. It was an excellent starter set for our off grid adventure. Quick and simple to install. It clearly demonstrated the limited power available under the best conditions. Winter when we needed it most was bleak. It confirmed solar was the appropriate choice. Instead of paying for power poles and miles of utility service extensions. We invested a few thousand into a Will 2kw system and could not be happier. The bulk of that system was left on the other coast. I brought basics to create this one.
 
Depending on which harbor freight kit you have between 5W and 100 watts per kit.
If your kit came with a square metal charge controller it is the 45w kit, and the lights SUCK
If it came with the small plastic controller kit it has better led lights, but not a lot.
60A grid conductor is usually #10 aluminum. Not a lot of watts can run on it at low PV voltage.
I had 3 45watt kits tied to a decent car battery bank, and survived for one year off grid, but it sucked and rarely had enough power for much else…
Get some decent panels, and we can help you build a setup to power essentials etc.
 
I don't want to be a wet blanket here, but speaking from experience, running grow lights off of solar is a very tall order. My lights (LED's) pull 800w each. A day is well over 20kwh. They cost so much I stopped growing (plus, it's not legal to grow stuff where I live currently).

Also, don't run DC to your AC panel. If you just HAVE to reuse the existing wiring, I would pull each "new" DC circuit out of the breaker panel, and just reuse the wires, sans breakers (should probably add, at least, a few cheap automotive fuses). They even make pretty slick looking DC distribution panels with built in fuses, that don't cost an arm and a leg.


Like someone said before, DC won't travel well over solid wires and long distances, but I plugged in a 13v input (about battery voltage) and a 100 foot run, over 16 awg solid wire, with a 10 watt load, into a calculator. It is only a 5.6% drop and leaves you with 12.3 volts, which is plenty to run 12 volt lighting. So running small lights is definitely possible with existing home wiring, but larger loads are definitely not recommended by me.

Post some pictures of your food forest! My sister-in-law has something similar going on.
 
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Thank you Supervstech.
I still have that original 100w (4 - 25w panels). I used it mostly to charge phones. For lighting I used a dozen 300w path lights. Yes very limited living but I would rank it as some of the best of times.
I did upgrade to Wills 2k watt system. The sad part of solar is the addiction that comes with it. You can always expand your system. The price for decommissioned systems is incredibly inexpensive. The battery storage is next endeavor. Since cracking water is relatively simple and can be produced on demand feel cells my be the answer. Efficiencys are my concern.
Back on topic ish:
Short term I will run a few quick low voltage circuits for overhead lighting to get by.
One of my too many utube motivators, DIY PERKS

Turning Smashed TVs into Realistic Artificial Daylight​

, creates a fake solar sky light. It looks like a perfect indoor solution and fairly simple to create. I have surplus LEDs from my end of season reduced price path light collection. It will be a matter of pattern and heat disapation for the "final" design.
 
A.Justice blanket away. Your explanation clearly demonstrates your intent.
Ok now that you ran the numbers I have to try just to know... maybe it will run a single A19 in the deep dark bowels, the kitchen.

I have not posted pics before but I will give it a shot. The house was vacant for years and the systems failed incrementally but there were successes for an unsupervised grow.

Point taken as to the power demand for grow lights. I only grow legal food plants. The light is primarily to extend day length. While it has not been of the scientific method, my tomatoes and other crops continued to produce at roughly the same levels for months. Bumped them past the winter solstice for a second year of production. I did use a greenhouse to reduce the temperature range fluctuations.
The point was not to replace sun light but to keep the plant from going into hibernation or death by tricking it into thinking it was still mid June by day light extension. I used the solar path light 300 watt elements shining from various places. I even tried a couple under the plant pointed to the underside of the leaves. That may have helped.
 
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