About to buy SunGoldPower AIO TP6048, does these components look right?

[khisanthax]

The middle of this story is that I bought a 120v AIO when I needed a 240v split phase before better understanding what I was doing and what I needed. So, thank you to everyone who has patiently answered my questions and thanks to everyone who asked questions before me.

It looks like I'm going to get the SunGoldPower AIO inverter and wanted to ask if what I have and what I need to get, while maybe not optimal, will work safely. It has the following specs.

This is what I have now:

One lifepo4 48v 50AH battery. Based on this recommendation I'll have to replace my current 4awg battery cables with 2awg battery cables.

8 eco-worthy 195w panels with the following specs:

vmp 19v
Voc 22.8v
Isc 12.23A
Imp 10.27A

I know the panels are not the best in many ways but I already bought them so I'll use them for now and will probably put them on a different scc and get panels with better watt/dollar later on. I will add one more eco worthy panel just to round out to 9 because of how they're placed on the roof so it looks symmetrical. Based on this recommendation I'll have to replace my current 12awg panel cables with 10awg. For the AC in and out it's recommending this but I currently have 6awg and plan to stick with those unless I shouldn't?

Now for fuses and circuit breakers. For the AC in I plan to use a double throw breaker rated at 50A for L1 and L2, I was going to use 60A but the manual says the rating of the AC transfer relay is 40A, did I understand this correctly? For AC out it's going to the subpanel in the garage that already has a 60A double throw, will that be fine? Between the battery and inverter because it states a charge rate of 120A so I should use a DC 150A breaker. Between the PV array and the Inverter I plan to use a DC 32A breaker. Am I missing or misunderstand anything?

 

[BentleyJ]

It looks like I'm going to get the SunGoldPower AIO inverter and wanted to ask if what I have and what I need to get, while maybe not optimal, will work safely. It has the following specs.

OK, so your wiring, breakers, fuses Etc all have to chosen based on this device.

One lifepo4 48v 50AH battery. Based on this recommendation I'll have to replace my current 4awg battery cables with 2awg battery cables.

50Ah is GROSSLY undersized for this inverter. The link you attached says 200Ah. How did you end up with 50Ah?
A 6000W 48V inverter can draw as much as 6000W/50V = 120A continuous. Then factoring in inefficiencies and surges wiring should be sized for 150A. 2AWG Class M or K welding cable would work but is marginal. I using std building cable like THHN I would recommend #1 or 1/0 but this stuff is hard to work with its so stiff. Go with welding cable and remember when ordering compression lugs for Welding Cable and DLO cable, they are a little larger ID due to expansion of the fine strands when stripped.

8 eco-worthy 195w panels with the following specs:
vmp 19v
Voc 22.8v
Isc 12.23A
Imp 10.27A

I know the panels are not the best in many ways but I already bought them so I'll use them for now and will probably put them on a different scc and get panels with better watt/dollar later on. I will add one more eco worthy panel just to round out to 9 because of how they're placed on the roof so it looks symmetrical. Based on this recommendation I'll have to replace my current 12awg panel cables with 10awg.

9 of the above listed panels connected in series has a Voc of 205V at 25C (Well below the 450V max) and an Imp of 10.3A. 12AWG is acceptable for a short distance but upgrading to 10AWG is a good idea so if you do upgrade the panels later the cable will already be in place to accept more amps.

For the AC in and out it's recommending this but I currently have 6awg and plan to stick with those unless I shouldn't?

Stick with the 6AWG

Now for fuses and circuit breakers. For the AC in I plan to use a double throw breaker rated at 50A for L1 and L2, I was going to use 60A but the manual says the rating of the AC transfer relay is 40A, did I understand this correctly?

You always need to protect the circuit based on the lowest current rated device in the system. In this case its the 40A transfer relay (you do not want the contacts to get welded closed) Use a 2 POLE (not throw) 40A breaker on the input side.

For AC out it's going to the subpanel in the garage that already has a 60A double throw, will that be fine?

A 60A breaker is sized correctly for the 6AWG output wire but really is too large to offer much protection for the inverter which has internal bussing based on the 40A transfer relay rating. All of the loads on subpanel are on smaller branch breakers so each of those circuits is protected at a much lower current rating. Using the 60A, 2 pole breaker in the subpanel is OK simply as a means of connecting the wiring but if a short circuit occurs inside the subpanel itself the 40A breaker upsteam will trip but only if the inverter is Utility mode. It your decision.

Between the battery and inverter because it states a charge rate of 120A so I should use a DC 150A breaker.

Yes, 150A breaker but not because of the charge rate which is usually set to 0.5C or less in the set up menu, its because of the discharge current the inverter is capable of using when at full load.

Between the PV array and the Inverter I plan to use a DC 32A breaker.

For a single string, a breaker is not required but its a nice convenience to be used as a means of disconnect. A 15A breaker would be sized more appropriately for the PV panels you are going to use.

 

[khisanthax]

OK, so your wiring, breakers, fuses Etc all have to chosen based on this device.


50Ah is GROSSLY undersized for this inverter. The link you attached says 200Ah. How did you end up with 50Ah?

I was looking at the 40A relay and multiplying by 1.25, but apparently was confused about that.

A 6000W 48V inverter can draw as much as 6000W/50V = 120A continuous. Then factoring in inefficiencies and surges wiring should be sized for 150A. 2AWG Class M or K welding cable would work but is marginal. I using std building cable like THHN I would recommend #1 or 1/0 but this stuff is hard to work with its so stiff. Go with welding cable and remember when ordering compression lugs for Welding Cable and DLO cable, they are a little larger ID due to expansion of the fine strands when stripped.

I'm curious, where do you get the 50V from? I had a really hard time with the 6awg cable I had (I made a mistake it's actually 4awg thhn). Welding cable at 1awg, with compression lugs but a little wider because the strands will expand after stripped. But worst case scenario 1/0 thhn? I can't imagine it being harder than the 4awg, smh.

9 of the above listed panels connected in series has a Voc of 205V at 25C (Well below the 450V max) and an Imp of 10.3A. 12AWG is acceptable for a short distance but upgrading to 10AWG is a good idea so if you do upgrade the panels later the cable will already be in place to accept more amps.

I'll keep that in mind!

Stick with the 6AWG

I made a mistake, it's 4awg thhn, but that should work as well.

You always need to protect the circuit based on the lowest current rated device in the system. In this case its the 40A transfer relay (you do not want the contacts to get welded closed) Use a 2 POLE (not throw) 40A breaker on the input side.

This is where I thought I needed a 50A breaker. But I need to put a 40A breaker 2 pole breaker for the AC in.

A 60A breaker is sized correctly for the 6AWG output wire but really is too large to offer much protection for the inverter which has internal bussing based on the 40A transfer relay rating. All of the loads on subpanel are on smaller branch breakers so each of those circuits is protected at a much lower current rating. Using the 60A, 2 pole breaker in the subpanel is OK simply as a means of connecting the wiring but if a short circuit occurs inside the subpanel itself the 40A breaker upsteam will trip but only if the inverter is Utility mode. It your decision.

So, what you're saying is the 60A breaker will protect the subpanel, and everything branched inside is smaller anyway, but between inverter and panel on the AC output I need another 40A 2 pole breaker? I didn't realize that on the AC output, it could go back into the solar panel inverter.

Yes, 150A breaker but not because of the charge rate which is usually set to 0.5C or less in the set up menu, its because of the discharge current the inverter is capable of using when at full load.

I get it, 150A single pole dc breaker.

For a single string, a breaker is not required but its a nice convenience to be used as a means of disconnect. A 15A breaker would be sized more appropriately for the PV panels you are going to use.

I'm sizing the breaker based on the panels, not what the inverter can pull?

Shopping list:
1 150A single pole dc breaker
1 15A single pole dc breaker (will change later for more panels? I can't get a higher rated breaker now because it would leave too much room and not protect the panels?)
1 40A 2 pole AC breaker 120v
2awg welding cable - this should work?
4 compression lugs for 2 cables??

Thanks in advance!

 

[Crowz]

The 40 amp is on the a/c side. As noted the DC can hit 150A.

I used 2 gauge wire not because its ideal as much as how small the dc connectors are in the inverter. My average load is 3k so that leaves 3k room so I figured 2 gauge should be fine.

 

[BentleyJ]

Couple of follow up comments to your questions.
1) 16 cell LiFePO4 batteries operate from 53.5V down to 48V. I use 50V as an easy, even number to do rough calculations on current draw from the battery to size cables, bus bars and breakers.
2) Just leave the 60A breaker in the subpanel or replace it with a 40A but don't go to the trouble of adding another one near the inverter. There is minimal risk involved as long as you are only working on the output side of the inverter when its OFF.
3) 2AWG welding cable on the battery should work for a normal situation. I would say its marginal IF you plan on operating the inverter at 80% of its rated output continuously.

The easiest way to determine if there a bad connection or undersized wire is heat. As long as everything is running and not overheating you're good.

 

[khisanthax]

The 40 amp is on the a/c side. As noted the DC can hit 150A.

I used 2 gauge wire not because its ideal as much as how small the dc connectors are in the inverter. My average load is 3k so that leaves 3k room so I figured 2 gauge should be fine.

Got it!

 

[khisanthax]

Couple of follow up comments to your questions.
1) 16 cell LiFePO4 batteries operate from 53.5V down to 48V. I use 50V as an easy, even number to do rough calculations on current draw from the battery to size cables, bus bars and breakers.

That's what I thought, thanks for confirming!

2) Just leave the 60A breaker in the subpanel or replace it with a 40A but don't go to the trouble of adding another one near the inverter. There is minimal risk involved as long as you are only working on the output side of the inverter when its OFF.

Any time I'm working on anything everything is off. So, 1 40A 2 pole (L1 & L2) for AC input.

3) 2AWG welding cable on the battery should work for a normal situation. I would say its marginal IF you plan on operating the inverter at 80% of its rated output continuously.

The easiest way to determine if there a bad connection or undersized wire is heat. As long as everything is running and not overheating you're good.

If I were operated at 80% or higher go with 1awg? Also, when I purchase additional batteries they should all be the same guage, right?

 

[Crowz]

If your going to use it at 80% and above all the time then you want something larger. I would probably do 1 awg.

 

[khisanthax]

If your going to use it at 80% and above all the time then you want something larger. I would probably do 1 awg.

Currently, I'll be doing less than 50% but I'll price it out. Thanks!

 

[Quattrohead]

15A single pole dc breaker (will change later for more panels? I can't get a higher rated breaker now because it would leave too much room and not protect the panels?)

You are not protecting the panels, you are protecting the wire.

 

[khisanthax]

You are not protecting the panels, you are protecting the wire.

Had to run that through my head twice, but I get it. At 12awg, a 15A breaker should protect it from bursting in flames.

 

[Quattrohead]

All of the recommended wire sizes and breakers may well be listed in the manual.

 

[khisanthax]

All of the recommended wire sizes and breakers may well be listed in the manual.

So, for example it says to use a 137A breaker for the battery and 27A breaker for the PV, but then later in the manual states to use a 150A/70VDC breaker. I haven't seen those sizes for breakers. I posted the specs to make sure I understand what I should be using since I haven't seen those numbers exactly. Did I go about it wrong? Wire sizes it does list.

 

[BentleyJ]

Also, when I purchase additional batteries they should all be the same gauge, right?

There are various configurations to connect multiple batteries. Its good to think ahead but in this case maybe too early. The answer will be based on a number of factors not know yet.

 

[42OhmsPA]

Unless they have updated the AC terminals 6AWG will be a major pita to fit. I tried, gave up and used 8.

 

[khisanthax]

Unless they have updated the AC terminals 6AWG will be a major pita to fit. I tried, gave up and used 8.

I'm crying here .... I have 4awg wires and I hated all 5 hours of running the six cables 2ft over .... I just need to suck up the loss and get a smaller gauge size, right?

Edit: the manual recommends 10awg

 

[42OhmsPA]

I'm crying here .... I have 4awg wires and I hated all 5 hours of running the six cables 2ft over .... I just need to suck up the loss and get a smaller gauge size, right?

Edit: the manual recommends 10awg

I would assume so but the terminals could have changed.

 

[khisanthax]

I would assume so but the terminals could have changed.

Thanks for the heads up ... one way to find out and hope for the best!