About to give up on purchasing EG4 products.

[Will Prowse]

It worked out for the best, I'm buying elsewhere.

I always say things work out for a reason and any setback is an opportunity. 26 years ago I had a supplier who wouldn't pay $11K in warranty costs for the products they sold. I ate the $11K out of my pocket. This forced me to find a new supplier and it was the best thing that happened to my business. They had kits which allowed for updated parts for the service I offered. I actually held a local monopoly for almost 10 years before anyone figured out where I was sourcing the kits. It didn't matter after that, I had achieved a high reputation for what I offered and customers were not leaving.

It was the best thing that ever happened to my business.

As for panels, I found a better deal than SS with better shipping terms. No sales tax, no exemption form.

What business sold you the panels? That's awesome. Would love to learn more about them and how they operate. What's their inventory like?

 

[Will Prowse]

It worked out for the best, I'm buying elsewhere.

I always say things work out for a reason and any setback is an opportunity. 26 years ago I had a supplier who wouldn't pay $11K in warranty costs for the products they sold. I ate the $11K out of my pocket. This forced me to find a new supplier and it was the best thing that happened to my business. They had kits which allowed for updated parts for the service I offered. I actually held a local monopoly for almost 10 years before anyone figured out where I was sourcing the kits. It didn't matter after that, I had achieved a high reputation for what I offered and customers were not leaving.

It was the best thing that ever happened to my business.

As for panels, I found a better deal than SS with better shipping terms. No sales tax, no exemption form.

And what was the shipping price?

 

[Zwy]

I've gained some pearls of wisdom as I get closer to my senior years.

Sometimes it is better to not have anything more to say and learn to just walk away.

 

[mciholas]

You always have to declare your tax exempt status. The seller cant assume you are using it for a tax exempt purpose.

Sorry, totally wrong.

You have confused a tax exempt SALE with a tax exempt PURCHASER. The SALE has no taxes because of the item being sold (read through the list of exemptions, like #25 (non profit food sales), and conclude that those sales don't have forms associated with them). A PURCHASER may be tax exempt because of THEIR business, and that does require a form, and that applies to things not automatically exempt in the list.

The fact the item is solar equipment exempts the tax, it has NOTHING to do with the buyer.

Vendors need to get this straight.

Mike C.

 

[mciholas]

I am in no way disagreeing that solar equipment is exempt, however, you do have to fill out form 31-014a, and where it says "Purchaser is claiming exemption for the following reason", check other, enter "Solar Energy Equipment".

This is for someone doing one of these things:



A homeowner is not one of them. This is for the general retailer's exemption, not the solar exemption everyone should get outright.

Please stop confusing the ITEM exemptions with the BUYER exemptions, they are not the same.

Mike C.

 

[mciholas]

Notice this as the start of the ITEM exemptions:

---

423.3 Exemptions.

There is exempted from the provisions of this subchapter and from the computation of the amount of tax imposed by it the following:

---

Notice it exempts not only the tax but also the "provisions of this subchapter" as well, that means the reporting and other forms. The items listed have no sales tax and the BUYER has to do NOTHING to get that. If SELLERS charge sales tax for the exempted items, they are doing so illegally. If SELLERS are requiring forms from buyers, they are doing so outside the requirements of the law.

Mike C.

 

[Will Prowse]

I've gained some pearls of wisdom as I get closer to my senior years.

Sometimes it is better to not have anything more to say and learn to just walk away.

So asserting a claim and providing zero evidence and zero useful information is considered a "pearl of wisdom" to you?

 

[42OhmsPA]

Removed.

 

[HighTechLab]

I'll give the Iowa department of revenue a call tomorrow morning to clarify.

 

[Zwy]

So asserting a claim and providing zero evidence and zero useful information is considered a "pearl of wisdom" to you?

I shall not answer your questions as I have my own for you which I will not be providing. It is best that way as you have questioned my integrity which I was certain you would. I was correct. Which leads to more questions and as such, I won't be playing. This isn't my site.

In this case, yes, it is a pearl of wisdom. I shall leave it as thus.

 

[SparkyJJO]

I don't get it. He asked where you found a better deal and asked what shipping cost, and you kinda went on a bit of a rant. So then he questions that, and you act like he's questioning your integrity over it?

Dude I have respect for you (and for Will), but your little spat here makes little sense to me. I guess it doesn't have to make sense to me - maybe there's a backstory IDK. Just odd though.

 

[Will Prowse]

Just messaged him. I have had respect for him too but this behavior is not very helpful to anyone else. One of the rules of the forum is to provide evidence if one asserts a claim. Not sure what the benefit is to hide this information that he is using to criticize multiple companies with. I would love to see this evidence and it could help everyone.

It creates the impression that he is lying to us. Not sure what the goal is here. Hopefully he can back up what he's talking about soon.

 

[Will Prowse]

I shall not answer your questions as I have my own for you which I will not be providing. It is best that way as you have questioned my integrity which I was certain you would. I was correct. Which leads to more questions and as such, I won't be playing. This isn't my site.

In this case, yes, it is a pearl of wisdom. I shall leave it as thus.

I question the integrity of everyone and everything around me. Especially here on the forum. To bash others or a company or legislation, and offering an alternative that no one here knows about, and not providing evidence of it, does not help anyone.

 

[green mountain boys]

Here are a couple of examples that might help clarify the issue. Well... maybe not the second example.

Example 1:
Lets assume that the retail sale of a bag fertilizer for home use (non commercial) is taxable. A person walks into a store and purchases a bag of fertilizer and is charged sales tax. A second person walks into the store and buys the same bag of fertilizer but tells the sales clerk he/she is using the fertilizer to grow a commercial crop to be later sold. Then the clerk needs to have the purchaser fill out an exemption form because this taxable item now is exempt from sales tax because it is going to be used for a commercial purpose. (This is the current tax law for fertilizer in Vermont)
If all fertilizer was tax exempt then no one would have to fill out an exemption form because all sales would be tax exempt. (This used to be the tax law in Vermont)
The new fertilizer tax law in Vermont makes it much more difficult to charge/pay the correct sales tax on fertilizer in Vermont.

Example 2.
This one shows the potential conflict with origin based sales tax vs. destination based sales tax.
Origin based sales tax = a system where sales tax rates are determined based on the location of the seller, not the buyer.
Destination based sales tax = the tax is applied based on the location where the buyer takes possession of the item or where it is delivered.



Example 2: Customer walks into a flower shop in Newark, California and want to send $100. of flowers to someone in Stowe, Vermont. California is an Origin based sales tax state and the paying customer is in California so it would be logical to conclude the sales clerk should charge California state sales tax, as well as any county and city taxes that might apply (google says this is 10.75% total). But wait, the flowers are being delivered to Vermont, a destination based sales tax state (this is where the item is delivered). According to Vermont law, 6% sales tax is due to Vermont. The town of Stowe also has a 1% town sales tax so that must be added to the total as well. Lets assume for a moment this is a smart sales clerk and he/she knows all of this or the point of sale software calculates this and the customer looks at the receipt and sees the 17.75% they were just charged for sales tax and says, wait a minute, you cannot charge me sales tax twice on the same item for one sale!

Houston we have a problem! I have talked to a lot of people (much smarter than I) from around the country about this and, to date, not one person has been able to explain how to satisfy all parties involved in this scenario. The Vermont Department of Taxes claims this sale doe not take place in California despite the fact that the customer is standing in the flower shop in California and is the one handing over the money. I would expect the California Department of Taxes would not agree with Vermont's position on this, but I have not personally asked them.

Bottom line is, sales tax is a huge can of worms. You just have to try to do your best, but sometimes it appears to be impossible to get is right.

 

[Quattrohead]

Full moon tonight

 

[Zwy]

I don't get it. He asked where you found a better deal and asked what shipping cost, and you kinda went on a bit of a rant. So then he questions that, and you act like he's questioning your integrity over it?

Dude I have respect for you (and for Will), but your little spat here makes little sense to me. I guess it doesn't have to make sense to me - maybe there's a backstory IDK. Just odd though.

Portable Sun has $350 flat rate shipping. Total would be $3359.60 vs SS at $3739.76. I can find more.

I had my reasons.

 

[Quattrohead]

The Vermont Department of Taxes claims this sale doe not take place in California despite the fact that the customer is standing in the flower shop in California and is the one handing over the money.

In this situation does it not depend upon where the product is actually physically shipped from?

 

[Zwy]

No sales tax, just in case you were wondering.

 

[Zwy]

In this situation does it not depend upon where the product is actually physically shipped from?

Sales tax is based upon the drop address.

 

[seneysolar]

Sorry, totally wrong.

You have confused a tax exempt SALE with a tax exempt PURCHASER. The SALE has no taxes because of the item being sold (read through the list of exemptions, like #25 (non profit food sales), and conclude that those sales don't have forms associated with them). A PURCHASER may be tax exempt because of THEIR business, and that does require a form, and that applies to things not automatically exempt in the list.

The fact the item is solar equipment exempts the tax, it has NOTHING to do with the buyer.

Vendors need to get this straight.

Mike C.

So what happens when you purchase wire? Tell them its for solar and they just take your word for it?

 

[green mountain boys]

In this situation does it not depend upon where the product is actually physically shipped from

Good question. In this case the place that is physically shipping the flowers did not collect the money so how can they pay the sales tax? I have asked this exact question to the State of Vermont Department of Taxes in writting. According to them, transaction takes place in Vermont.

 

[Zwy]

So what happens when you purchase wire? Tell them its for solar and they just take your word for it?

From the link I provided earlier,


Solar

Effective July 1, 2006, solar energy equipment is also exempt from the state sales tax. Solar equipment means any equipment that is used to convert incident solar radiation to energy, or equipment used to transform the converted energy to storage or to some point of use.

Additional guidance on the solar exemption has been provided in the Iowa Sales and Use Tax Guide: "Iowa Code section 423.3(90) defines solar energy equipment as “equipment that is primarily used to collect and convert incident solar radiation into thermal, mechanical, or electrical energy or equipment that is primarily used to transform such converted solar energy to a storage point or to a point of use.” This includes but is not limited to panels, inverters, solar roof tiles or shingles, and energy transmission devices. It does not include a battery or other storage point, equipment used for safety or security of the equipment such as fencing, or equipment not used to collect, convert, or transmit solar energy. It also does not include materials used to manufacture, install, or construct solar energy equipment, such as racking to install or mount solar energy equipment or pads or foundations to support a solar energy equipment installation."

 

[green mountain boys]

So what happens when you purchase wire? Tell them its for solar and they just take your word for it?

If the customer asserts a taxable item is exempt, and fills out an exemption form, then the customer has signed a document asserting he/she is not liable for sales tax. If this is incorrect the customer is liable not the seller.

 

[green mountain boys]

From the link I provided earlier,


Solar

Effective July 1, 2006, solar energy equipment is also exempt from the state sales tax. Solar equipment means any equipment that is used to convert incident solar radiation to energy, or equipment used to transform the converted energy to storage or to some point of use.

Additional guidance on the solar exemption has been provided in the Iowa Sales and Use Tax Guide: "Iowa Code section 423.3(90) defines solar energy equipment as “equipment that is primarily used to collect and convert incident solar radiation into thermal, mechanical, or electrical energy or equipment that is primarily used to transform such converted solar energy to a storage point or to a point of use.” This includes but is not limited to panels, inverters, solar roof tiles or shingles, and energy transmission devices. It does not include a battery or other storage point, equipment used for safety or security of the equipment such as fencing, or equipment not used to collect, convert, or transmit solar energy. It also does not include materials used to manufacture, install, or construct solar energy equipment, such as racking to install or mount solar energy equipment or pads or foundations to support a solar energy equipment installation."

Vermont renewable energy tax exemption seems to be much broader than yours (Iowa). It appears to exclude from sales tax almost everything used in a renewable energy system.
https://tax.vermont.gov/sites/tax/files/documents/FS-1182.pdf

 

[seneysolar]

If the customer asserts a taxable item is exempt, and fills out an exemption form, then the customer has signed a document asserting he/she is not liable for sales tax. If this is incorrect the customer is liable not the seller.

Yes indeed, the key is the exemption form signed by the buyer, kept on file by the seller to prove he did not need to collect any tax.

A vendor cannot assume that you are using the product for a tax exempt purpose.